Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Wallace » 13 Feb 2017 11:54

I have Quicken 2014 which will soon expire. I'm thinking about getting a version of 2016 if there are any still in the stores. BUT..I'm also thinking of other options too. I downloaded KMyMoney and have imported the qif file generated by Quicken. It'll be a lot of work to set it up but if it downloads my bank data and downloads quotes I'll be happy with it.

I'm ok (sort-of) with banks having my data online but certainly not ok with the robber barons at "quicken" having control of and access to my financial data. This company continues to poke its customers in the eye and I don't trust them.

The other programs I've seen that look promising are AceMoney and MoneyDance. Anyone have experience with these? They both cost about $40 for the full versions.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Peculiar_Investor » 13 Feb 2017 12:34

I would suggest that if you see a copy of Quicken 2016 in a store then buy it. From all accounts I've read, Quicken pulled it from store shelves when Quicken 2017 was released.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by adrian2 » 13 Feb 2017 13:11

I have all my financial history in Quicken since I've come to Canada over two decades ago.
Lots of bank accounts, credit cards, investment accounts, for the whole family (and CCPC).
The data file size is 67M, quite acceptable in today's world.

Never once did I use the downloading from bank/broker sites, everything is entered manually.

For many years I was using Quicken version 4 (remember those times when program versions did not have model years like cars?).
Many years later I switched to a more up-to-date one, intermediate step to 2002 and then to 2012, which is the one I'm using now.

I have no plans or need to upgrade.

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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by CROCKD » 13 Feb 2017 13:15

Wallace wrote:I downloaded KMyMoney and have imported the qif file generated by Quicken.
I have been thinking of also doing this as a backup for when or if Quicken 2011 does not work anymore. I have always manually entered my data.
Let's know how KMyMoney works out.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by adrian2 » 13 Feb 2017 13:18

CROCKD wrote:
Wallace wrote:I downloaded KMyMoney and have imported the qif file generated by Quicken.
I have been thinking of also doing this as a backup for when or if Quicken 2011 does not work anymore. I have always manually entered my data.
Other than operating system obsolescence, why would Quicken 2011 not work any more?
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Descartes » 13 Feb 2017 13:20

If you enter your data manually then what is the tangible value that Quicken provides you versus a bespoke spreadsheet?
Not trolling just a genuine question from someone who has never used Quicken or the like.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by adrian2 » 13 Feb 2017 16:09

Descartes wrote:If you enter your data manually then what is the tangible value that Quicken provides you versus a bespoke spreadsheet?
Not trolling just a genuine question from someone who has never used Quicken or the like.
Tracking cost base, various forms of investment income, tracking various expense categories, reminders of when payments are due, various graphs, reports, etc etc.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Descartes » 13 Feb 2017 18:06

adrian2 wrote:
Descartes wrote:If you enter your data manually then what is the tangible value that Quicken provides you versus a bespoke spreadsheet?
Not trolling just a genuine question from someone who has never used Quicken or the like.
Tracking cost base, various forms of investment income, tracking various expense categories, reminders of when payments are due, various graphs, reports, etc etc.
Not sure about the etc etc but you can do these stated things with a spreadsheet. I do. So, I'm guessing it is just the convenience of having these features ready-made as opposed to DIY.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by AltaRed » 13 Feb 2017 18:27

Descartes wrote:So, I'm guessing it is just the convenience of having these features ready-made as opposed to DIY.
Indeed, no spreadsheets. And I use the Quicken Update icon to update market prices. KISS. Something even my spouse could do.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by adrian2 » 13 Feb 2017 20:25

Descartes wrote:
adrian2 wrote:
Descartes wrote:If you enter your data manually then what is the tangible value that Quicken provides you versus a bespoke spreadsheet?
Not trolling just a genuine question from someone who has never used Quicken or the like.
Tracking cost base, various forms of investment income, tracking various expense categories, reminders of when payments are due, various graphs, reports, etc etc.
Not sure about the etc etc but you can do these stated things with a spreadsheet. I do. So, I'm guessing it is just the convenience of having these features ready-made as opposed to DIY.
How easy is it to have the cash balance of each account in a spreadsheet, in a single window?
How easy is the concept of a transfer between accounts, debiting one's balance and crediting another one?
How easy is it to set up recurring payments (monthly, semi-monthly, bi-monthly, quarterly, etc) and have reminders in an internal calendar when they become due? Then choose whether to enter the transactions automatically or not?
How easy is it enter a one-liner for an investment transaction that matches your broker statement, including buys, sells, various forms of distributions, reinvested or not?
How easy is it produce a graph of net worth / assets vs. liabilities / investment performance / etc., in a period you can specify as specific dates, or last quarter / year / current quarter / year to-date / last 5 years / all dates / etc? Then drill into bank / investment accounts for a specific period?
Shall I continue?
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Descartes » 13 Feb 2017 20:59

adrian2 wrote:How easy is it ..?
Easy is a relative term. What is easy for some may not be easy for others. So I can't answer that.
But if you are asking is it possible to implement these things then the answer is a fairly confident yes.
Shall I continue?
If you were interested then I'd suggest some on-line Excel tutorials for you then you could answer your questions yourself.

I don't mean to get you all defensive.
I see clearly the benefit of Quicken if it can connect automatically to your accounts and draw data in from them (although permitting it to do that would personally make me too uncomfortable).
It was not so clear to me what the benefit is if you are entering the data manually.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Shakespeare » 13 Feb 2017 21:52

FWIW, I fudged the amounts in the LibreOffice ods spreadsheet I wrote a couple of weeks back to show what's possible. All the stocks are 100 except for VT and the GIC and RRB amounts are fiddled. This loads the prices automatically, shows some distribution charts, and calculates accrued interest.

The last few stocks on the data page are "watchlist" and would be placed alphabetically after CAD$ conversion if included.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by adrian2 » 13 Feb 2017 22:35

And another thing that comes naturally in Quicken: a dedicated view which shows all your holdings (name / share balance / dollar value / cost base / various metrics), in one / more / all accounts (as per your choice), today or as of a day of your choosing in the past.

Easy, peasy in Excel?

It's not that it's impossible to do, but have you done it? I earn my living in software, and I tell users that as long as they can put the requirements in words, it can be implemented; the real question, as per my previous post, how easy is it?
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Shakespeare » 13 Feb 2017 22:42

Yes, but how necessary is it really to have multiyear past data?

I have that on a separate spreadsheet. But it turns out I don't use it to manage: it isn't relevant to current decisions.

I'm not saying Quicken is without benefit - but IMO it can be done without for current investment management.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by adrian2 » 13 Feb 2017 22:55

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; same with utility of software.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Peculiar_Investor » 13 Feb 2017 23:00

Descartes wrote:If you enter your data manually then what is the tangible value that Quicken provides you versus a bespoke spreadsheet?
Not trolling just a genuine question from someone who has never used Quicken or the like.
I've been a Quicken user since the DOS days. My first financial tracking application was built in VisiCalc and was a simple chequebook program to track my expenses. This was way before online banking, when you had to wait until month-end to get your statement mailed to you.

Quicken replaced my DIY spreadsheet because it was easier to use and they'd figured out the chequebook paradigm pretty well. Over time, they've added functionality to support investments, taxes, etc. Like myself, as our finances became more complicated and involved more than just a chequing account, more and more of our financial lives have been captured in Quicken.

For someone starting out attempting to track their paycheques and expenses, it's a pretty useful program, at a reasonable cost if you amortize the purchase over Quicken's three year sunset policy. It works out as about $25-30/year.

Quicken works well for the student or person just entering the workforce, I've convinced both my adult sons of the merits of using it to track things and use the budgeting features to plan ahead. It also works well for someone later in life with investments, both registered and non-registered, and many other accounts across many financial institutions. There have been many competitors that have come and gone, Quicken remains the dominant player in this space, for good reason.

In reality you could build your own spreadsheet to track this stuff, but Quicken was priced right and is well supported by Canadian financial institutions as the push to paperless and online banking has taken hold. Quicken serves a wide user base, those with a couple of bank accounts, a credit card and a mortgage would want to track their expenses and budget all the way to those who've got complicated financial affairs with investment portfolios and high interest savings accounts spread out across a variety of financial institutions.

The challenge for Quicken Inc. is just about every feature has long ago been added to Quicken, so there annual update cycle probably isn't producing the same revenue stream that it once did. Intuit sold off Quicken to an investor group, who are now trying to figure out a model that works for both them and the Quicken user base.

That's what all this fuss is about. The new owners are attempting a radical change to the model and are getting serious feedback from the user base on a couple of changes that we're deeming unacceptable. For Quicken 2017 they've moved to an annual subscription model. Nothing radical there, many software companies are moving in that direction. The biggest problem is what happens if/when your subscription lapses. As it stands now, your data becomes frozen in time, you can more longer add any more transactions. Imagine buying a Microsoft Office subscription and being told that if you let it lapse you'll no longer be able to create any more documents or spreadsheets, you can only edit your existing ones.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by pmj » 13 Feb 2017 23:09

Leaving aside the challenge and the time required to create an alternative to Quicken (balanced, maybe, by the satisfaction in getting it working) - let's consider that one day - maybe tomorrow - the writer of the one-off custom nested spreadsheet package may no longer be available.

The families whose financial managers used Quicken can turn to an enormous user base for help. But ...
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by DenisD » 13 Feb 2017 23:42

Peculiar_Investor wrote:Imagine buying a Microsoft Office subscription and being told that if you let it lapse you'll no longer be able to create any more documents or spreadsheets, you can only edit your existing ones.
Actually, you can't even edit your existing ones.
What happens if you do nothing

After your subscription expires, Office will run in reduced functionality mode and will show Unlicensed Product notifications. You’ll still be able to open and print your documents but you won’t be able to edit them or to create new ones. You can reactivate your subscription at any time to get back to full functionality.
https://support.office.com/en-us/articl ... 3ade10cceb
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Peculiar_Investor » 13 Feb 2017 23:49

Thanks Denis, I just recently upgraded to Office 2010, so I'm clearly a bit behind the times on Microsoft Office subscription and it's terms and conditions.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by DenisD » 13 Feb 2017 23:51

I suppose you could use Office Online for simple spreadsheets.

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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by AltaRed » 14 Feb 2017 00:07

I am on Office 365 Personal and understand the subscription limitations, but I buy it for the One Drive cloud storage that comes with it. It is worth it for the $70/yr. The problem with the new Quicken model is the 'sticker shock' attached to it. I'd have no problem at $30/yr.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Descartes » 14 Feb 2017 08:55

adrian2 wrote:And another thing that comes naturally in Quicken: a dedicated view which shows all your holdings (name / share balance / dollar value / cost base / various metrics), in one / more / all accounts (as per your choice), today or as of a day of your choosing in the past.

Easy, peasy in Excel?

It's not that it's impossible to do, but have you done it?
As Shakespeare responded, I haven't found a need to do it for investment purposes. However, I have a similar dashboard for the current state.

Do you want me to help you learn about Excel?
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by adrian2 » 14 Feb 2017 09:05

Descartes wrote:Do you want me to help you learn about Excel?
Thank you for your kindness. My Excel knowledge is very good.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Descartes » 14 Feb 2017 09:36

pmj wrote:Leaving aside the challenge and the time required to create an alternative to Quicken (balanced, maybe, by the satisfaction in getting it working) - let's consider that one day - maybe tomorrow - the writer of the one-off custom nested spreadsheet package may no longer be available.

The families whose financial managers used Quicken can turn to an enormous user base for help. But ...
Not sure what kind of kludgy monster you're thinking of but.. in the end it's just data and tools for analyzing that data. It ain't rocket science. And as for user base, Microsoft says there are over 1 billion users of Office out there... I'm sure one or two of them might be able to help you ;).
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Peculiar_Investor » 14 Feb 2017 09:48

MIght I gently suggest that some of this Excel vs. Quicken etc discussion be moved over to Quicken or alternatives? so that this topic can remain about Quicken 2017 and Quicken's decision to introduce a subscription model. and the potential impacts to end users.
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