Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

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Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Germack » 27 Jan 2017 20:16

Quicken 2017 is out now and they increased significantly the price.

The Quicken Home&Business version cost now $89.99 /year. That's very excessive. I don't think I will upgrade my 2013 version with these prices.

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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Post by Bylo Selhi » 02 Feb 2017 09:12

Germack wrote:Quicken 2017 is out now and they increased significantly the price.

The Quicken Home&Business version cost now $89.99 /year. That's very excessive. I don't think I will upgrade my 2013 version with these prices.
Even worse. Caveat emptor...

Quicken Canada Order Questions [my bold]
Q. What happens to the program when access to Quicken Connected Services ends?
A. You'll no longer have access to connected services, like the ability to download banking transactions or investment quotes, mobile access, or premium care. While you can continue to access your data and run reports, you'll no longer be able to download transactions, or add manual transactions.
The $90/year subscription fee is a cash grab. I can understand that even if I don't like it. But this is extortion.

Under the old model if you didn't want to upgrade you could continue to use Quicken manually. Under this model your use of the product ends completely. It effectively becomes a read-only snapshot of your data as of the date of expiration. This breaks the trust between Quicken and its user base.

This is completely unacceptable.

By subscribing to this new model you also consent to this new extortion racket. When you upgrade to 2017 your data gets converted. You can't go back. So in 2018 you can't go back to an earlier version like 2016 or 2015 and manually update your data.

Think long and hard before you pull the trigger on Q2017.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Peculiar_Investor » 02 Feb 2017 09:24

Bylo Selhi wrote:Even worse. Caveat emptor...

Quicken Canada Order Questions [my bold]
Q. What happens to the program when access to Quicken Connected Services ends?
A. You'll no longer have access to connected services, like the ability to download banking transactions or investment quotes, mobile access, or premium care. While you can continue to access your data and run reports, you'll no longer be able to download transactions, or add manual transactions.
The $90/year subscription fee is a cash grab. I can understand that even if I don't like it. But this is extortion.

Under the old model if you didn't want to upgrade you could continue to use Quicken manually. Under this model your use of the product ends completely. It effectively becomes a read-only snapshot of your data as of the date of expiration. This breaks the trust between Quicken and its user base.

This is completely unacceptable.
Great catch. I bet many people won't read the fine print and will be nailed by this extortion. Given the three year sunset rule that Quicken imposes for downloading transactions, it certainly looks like they've rigged the window to benefit themselves and harm their user base. Completely unacceptable doesn't fully express my frustration with this approach.

I wonder if the user base can have any influence on getting this egregious change reversed? We need to make ourselves heard.
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Post by tedster » 02 Feb 2017 10:10

I have never used the "download" feature. Always used the manual entry. Still using Deluxe 2002. :)

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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Post by GreatLaker » 02 Feb 2017 10:50

While you can continue to access your data and run reports, you'll no longer be able to download transactions, or add manual transactions.
Wowouch! That's awful. They have tripled the ongoing cost since the price is about the same but it's an annual subscription fee instead of a download you can use for 3 years (if you want to continue to d/l bank transactions). I enter all my own transactions, and only d/l transactions to verify with my own register entries.

I don't see a $89.99 online price, but maybe it's discounted? I see Starter for $39.99, Deluxe for $79.99, Premier for $109.99 and Home & Business for $119.99. And it says you need at least Premier to track investments with the following features that Deluxe does not have:
https://www.quicken.com/compare
  • Portfolio X-Ray
  • Shows performance vs. the market
  • Helps with buy/sell decisions
  • Displays up-to-date portfolio value
  • Tracks cost basis and capital gains
I have 25 years of data in Quicken and my 2014 edition will probably expire this year. The main thing I will miss is one-step update to keep stock prices up-to-date, but doubt if I will upgrade.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by IdOp » 02 Feb 2017 12:15

That is mind-bogglingly awful for their loyal users. Even if users pushed back strongly and got them to reverse it, they are just going to come up with similar crap again in the near future. The only real alternative is to give them the finger and leave, but they are counting on that being too inconvenient for many/most.

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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by OnlyMyOpinion » 02 Feb 2017 12:58

Hmmm, wonder if this should be a cautionary tale for all Intuit products?
I've stuck with Quicktax Turbotax so far (but not proud of the fact) and just bought 2016. Maybe next year I will make a switch.

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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by MoresbyBatter » 02 Feb 2017 14:25

GreatLaker, I believe you are looking at USA pricing. I made the same mistake.

Surprisingly, the USA "Premier" version is currently discounted by 40%! (US$65.99).

I've been a user in 1991, won't be paying for the new version. Assuming I can still do it after April of this year, I will just enter my investment transactions manually, and update stock/etf/MF prices when I can. I can live without knowing every transaction in my chequing or credit card accounts.

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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by GreatLaker » 02 Feb 2017 17:59

MoresbyBatter wrote:GreatLaker, I believe you are looking at USA pricing. I made the same mistake.
Thanks I did not notice.
Surprisingly, the USA "Premier" version is currently discounted by 40%! (US$65.99).

I've been a user in 1991, won't be paying for the new version. Assuming I can still do it after April of this year, I will just enter my investment transactions manually, and update stock/etf/MF prices when I can. I can live without knowing every transaction in my chequing or credit card accounts.
Yeah, before they were showing me list prices. After I went to the site and did not buy they are offering me 40% off on the US product. Does not matter; I am not buying.

It does bring up the issue of what would be a fair price for an ongoing download or software as a service. Say the old version was $75 to download and lasted 3 years before it could not be used to d/l banking transactions or update stock prices. That works out to slightly more than $2/month. I probably would have purchased it again. But not at $89.99/year, and especially not when users cannot even enter new transactions if they stop paying the subscription fee.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by ig17 » 02 Feb 2017 18:37

OnlyMyOpinion wrote:Hmmm, wonder if this should be a cautionary tale for all Intuit products?
I've stuck with Quicktax Turbotax so far (but not proud of the fact) and just bought 2016. Maybe next year I will make a switch.
Quicken is not an Intuit product any more. They sold it last year.

Intuit sells Quicken to private equity firm in management buyout

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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by OnlyMyOpinion » 02 Feb 2017 21:06

ig17 wrote:
OnlyMyOpinion wrote:Hmmm, wonder if this should be a cautionary tale for all Intuit products?
I've stuck with Quicktax Turbotax so far (but not proud of the fact) and just bought 2016. Maybe next year I will make a switch.
Quicken is not an Intuit product any more. They sold it last year.
Intuit sells Quicken to private equity firm in management buyout
Ok, Thanks for that.

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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Shakespeare » 02 Feb 2017 21:07

As my sig suggests, sometimes it's better to abandon your luggage.
“A wise man should be prepared to abandon his baggage at any time.” -- R.A. Heinlein, The Door Into Summer.

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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by GreatLaker » 02 Feb 2017 21:39

Shakespeare wrote:As my sig suggests, sometimes it's better to abandon your luggage.
Or in this case maybe hang on to your old beat-up suitcase as long as it still works, because the only ones you can get now have an annual recurring charge, and if you stop paying the annual fee you cannot put anything more into the luggage, making it kinda useless. :evil:
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by pmj » 02 Feb 2017 21:53

GreatLaker wrote:Or in this case maybe hang on to your old beat-up suitcase as long as it still works
Q99 working just fine over here. Recently installed on Win7 with only one minor loss of functionality. And it still downloads chequing transactions from TD :D.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by tedster » 03 Feb 2017 08:32

As I said upthread I am still using 2002 Deluxe. The only thing I can no longer get to work is Billminder. I love Quicken. I am the kind of guy who adds two numbers with a calculator and gets two answers, both wrong. :rofl:

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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Post by Bylo Selhi » 03 Feb 2017 10:09

Peculiar_Investor wrote:I wonder if the user base can have any influence on getting this egregious change reversed? We need to make ourselves heard.
If you want to express your opposition to Quicken's new subscription model, there are at least two threads in Quicken's own support forum:
Quicken Canada product page needs to explain what happens if the person stops paying for the subscription
Quicken Inc should reverse its decision to change to a subscription that makes the user's data read-only if they stop paying
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Peculiar_Investor » 03 Feb 2017 10:24

Thanks Bylo. I've already given them feedback directly on the https://www.quicken.com/support/quicken ... estions#no page. When I've got some today I'll weigh in the Quicken community forums you linked. I noticed one has already been closed.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Peculiar_Investor » 03 Feb 2017 11:30

This has bugged infuriated me enough to register and post. Hopefully the voices of the community will have some sway. On the positive side, there appears to a Quicken representation engaged in the discussions. That's a good thing and a blast from the past (think Usenet).
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Peculiar_Investor » 03 Feb 2017 12:36

One further thought, the Canadian banks have invested significantly in getting Canadians to go paperless and download their statements to Quicken.

I know I'm going to let my bank(s) know that progress down that with Quicken's new model that roadway could grind to a halt. While ordinary users can pushback somewhat on Quicken, I'm sure having the Canadian banks aware of the issue and possibly weighing in wouldn't hurt.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by OnlyMyOpinion » 03 Feb 2017 15:11

Maybe, or maybe the banks won't really care?
Their primary driver to go paperless was reduced costs of course.
In TD, the download choices are: MS Money, Intuit Quicken, Intuit Quickbooks, csv, or Simply Accounting.
I don't know how they settled on those 5 formats. While I use csv (for excel purposes), I suspect Quicken has the largest use (?).
It can't hurt to make them aware of it though.

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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Bylo Selhi » 07 Feb 2017 07:34

Amazing what a tip to the media can accomplish :twisted:

Quicken shifts to software subscription model, but there's a big catch
But the idea that they could not continue to track finances by manually entering transactions fueled push-back from Quicken customers.

"If the subscription isn't renewed, manual access and updates to the data need to be allowed, otherwise the company will be perceived to be holding the customer's data hostage," argued Dan Glynhampton in a message posted to a Quicken support forum.

"Quicken is supposed to help me manage my finances, not prevent me from managing my finances," added mshiggins on the same thread.

When a Quicken representative intervened on the forum to say that the only real difference between a subscription and the older licensed software is "that manual transactions can't be added" when the former expires, users were quick to respond.

"If at the point the subscription ends my data essentially becomes frozen in time then that makes the program absolutely useless to me," asserted Perculiar_Investor.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Peculiar_Investor » 07 Feb 2017 07:45

Wow, I'm quoted. I guess my 15 minutes of fame have started :lol:
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by Peculiar_Investor » 10 Feb 2017 18:43

While you can still vote, the Quicken Inc should reverse its decision to change to a subscription that makes the user's data read-only if they stop paying topic is now closed and marked "Under Consideration". So far there are 176 votes.
Quicken Kathryn, Official Rep wrote:Official Response
Hi All,

Thank you very much for your input and feedback. It’s looking like all of the points on this issue have been exhausted in this thread, so I will mark this Idea as “Under Consideration” and close the thread for now. I know a lot of folks are looking for a ‘final’ answer on the points raised here, and those answers will come, but any decisions made on product features, function, or pricing will take some time and review. We’ll update this thread whenever new information is available.

We’ve also updated the Quicken Canada Order Questions FAQ in order to clarify what happens when the subscription ends:

You’ll still be able to access, view, and export all of your financial data. You will never be blocked from accessing your financial history. However, Quicken will switch to a reduced functionality mode. In this mode, some features may be limited or unavailable. For example:
  • You can open existing data files and see all your existing data
  • You can view, edit, and delete existing transactions—including attachments.
  • You can create, run, print, and save reports.
  • You can export your data, make or restore a backup, and make a copy of a file.
  • You cannot access any Connected Services such as bank downloads, stock quotes, online bill pay, bill linking, credit score, or mobile sync.
  • You cannot add new transactions via file import or manual entry.
You can continue to vote for this idea using the voting buttons at the top of this page, and follow this thread if you’d like further updates.
There has been some movement from Quicken based on the feedback and votes so far, but for me that last point, You cannot add new transactions via file import or manual entry. is still a non-starter for me to consider ever upgrading my Quicken software again.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by AltaRed » 10 Feb 2017 18:52

Peculiar_Investor wrote:There has been some movement from Quicken based on the feedback and votes so far, but for me that last point, You cannot add new transactions via file import or manual entry. is still a non-starter for me to consider ever upgrading my Quicken software again.
Indeed. I updated to Quicken 2016 a year ago and I am suspicious now of any so called 'software updates' to that version. They had a Release 2 last year which I updated too, but just now there is a Release 3 waiting for me to update....but it contains a 'phone home' upgrade component that I think I am going to ignore. No more Release updates.

For what it is worth, I think the MS Office 365 Personal subscription model at $69/yr is a much better deal, especially when it comes with a bunch of One Drive cloud storage. I'd be less offended at Quicken if the annual subscription was circa $30 or so. That's about the same as dinner for two at Swiss Chalet.
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Re: Quicken 2017 [Caution about upgrading]

Post by ig17 » 10 Feb 2017 22:05

AltaRed wrote:Indeed. I updated to Quicken 2016 a year ago and I am suspicious now of any so called 'software updates' to that version. They had a Release 2 last year which I updated too, but just now there is a Release 3 waiting for me to update....but it contains a 'phone home' upgrade component that I think I am going to ignore. No more Release updates.
+1

I am going to ignore this new update for as long as I can. I half expect that they will force it down our throats by disabling authentication or some such tactic.

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