High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Banking and Saving strategies, maximizing interest rates, budgeting, GICs, HISAs.
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Pickles
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by Pickles »

CROCKD wrote:Reading Pickles post while I am still in Budapest I am getting more and more angry about the 'games' at Tangerine. When I return next week I too shall be calling them to demand a revision of my rate (to Dec.20). If they do not budge, a deposit of $100k+ will be on its way elsewhere. Also in this case I should like permission to paraphrase your paragraph about transparency with a letter and a copy to The Superintendent Of Financial Institutions.
I will point out that they have poisoned a banking relationship that has lasted over 20 years.
You go right ahead, CROCK'D. Go get 'em!
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by Koogie »

Descartes wrote:I'm both a BNS shareholder and a Tangerine client. ..and you are a fool.
.5% for a handful of internet forum members is meaningless to the bottomline of BNS.
However, squeezing as much as you can from your assets is a lesson you should have learnt by now as a member of FWF.
Furthermore, being annoyed at capricious marketing ploys from the holder of some of your precious assets is simply ..righteous :).
Oh, is this the part of the forum where we get to call each other names now ? Very useful and mature.

I own a business. We don't put up with abusive customers. If someone called in and complained that we had given someone else a better deal and then complained about their "human rights" or threatened to send a "letter to the authorities" we would laugh at them and gladly and quickly tell them to take their business elsewhere. Tangerine, as a large corporation with a public face, can't afford to get away with that. But that should be their response.

If you don't like their "capricious marketing ploy" take your business elsewhere. Or be prepared to put up with it and deal with it without making specious threats. Call that a lesson you should have learnt by now.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by Pickles »

Koogie wrote:
Flaccidsteele wrote:If the company can avoid paying out 0.5% to 'x' number of clients, I think the shareholders would support that.
Trust me, this is one (BNS) shareholder who does support it.

The amount of righteous indignation and anger over half a percent.. in a taxable account that is what, around 250$ at the very most ? Perhaps it would be better for your health and the stress level for the poor Tangerine CSRs that you are abusing if you did take your business elsewhere...

If you choose not to then you are choosing to suffer their behaviour. There must be a name for that sort of complex... :roll:
I'm a BNS shareholder and I think the recent behaviour of Tangerine brings disrepute to itself and the Bank of Nova Scotia.

I'm surprised that you think asking Tangerine for the same rate of interest that it gives to others and, when refused, requesting full disclosure of the profiling criteria constitutes "abuse". Good heavens, Koogie, you are a gentler soul than I ever imagined. Watch your stress levels, none of us want you to get a complex.

Your arithmetic is a bit dodgy, too. You suggest that the difference of half a percent amounts to "around $250 at the very most". Well, no. At the very most, one can claim the preferential rate on a balance of $500,000. $500,000 X 0.5% =$2,500 (yearly interest). The promotion lasts 90 days -- say, for the sake of simplicity -- 24.66% of a year. $2,500 X 24.66% = $616.60 . Of course this sum is likely to be substantially larger, given that Tangerine offers several interest promotions per year.

More importantly, you fail to understand that the indignation is not about "half a percentage". It's about a 25% discrepancy between the rate offered in Tangerine's private solicitation of certain clients and its private solicitation of other clients ( 2.5 - 2.0 = 0.5/2.0 = . 25 or 25%) and it's a 212.5% discrepancy between the higher private offer and the publicly posted rate of interest (2.5 -0.8 =1.7/0.8 =2.125 or 212.5%).

Personally, I don't know any BNS shareholders who would knowingly and happily accept 25% less return than the next guy just.....because. But you go ahead.

Finally, Tangerine has changed its behaviour markedly in its latest campaigns. Previously, it made the same offer to all existing clients of a higher interest rate for new deposits . Clients who asked for the offer to extend to their existing deposits were often successful, especially if they could get the higher rate by moving to another bank. Now Tangerine initiates several offers at a time and they are widely different. The amount offered is not determined by any known criteria -- such as how long the customer has been a client, how much they have invested, where they live, what rates are offered by competing institutions, etc. Tangerine has failed -- nay, refused -- to reveal on what basis one client is favoured over another. All the reps will say is that it's a complicated profiling.

This invites speculation. On what basis is Tangerine discriminating? Reasonable criteria fairly applied? Arbitrary criteria? Criteria prohibited by federal human rights and banking regulations? Profiling also invites resentment and distrust, even from many of us who have benefited from the criteria.

As a BNS shareholder, I am concerned that Tangerine's management has alienated me -- a ING then Tangerine saver for 21 years -- and many others. This reflects badly on BNS which owns Tangerine. It calls into question the management of the company and the direction it wishes to take.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by Koogie »

Pickles wrote:Your arithmetic is a bit dodgy, too. You suggest that the difference of half a percent amounts to "around $250 at the very most". Well, no. At the very most, one can claim the preferential rate on a balance of $500,000. $500,000 X 0.5% =$2,500 (yearly interest). The promotion lasts 90 days -- say, for the sake of simplicity -- 24.66% of a year. $2,500 X 24.66% = $616.60 . Of course this sum is likely to be substantially larger, given that Tangerine offers several interest promotions per year.
If you are keeping $500,000 in a HISA at Tangerine, I would suggest you have bigger problems than a half percentage loss. Most people would keep the CDIC max, $100,000. So, my example stands. You might be an outlier.

Pickles wrote:Finally, Tangerine has changed its behaviour markedly in its latest campaigns. Previously, it made the same offer to all existing clients of a higher interest rate for new deposits . Clients who asked for the offer to extend to their existing deposits were often successful, especially if they could get the higher rate by moving to another bank. Now Tangerine initiates several offers at a time and they are widely different. The amount offered is not determined by any known criteria -- such as how long the customer has been a client, how much they have invested, where they live, what rates are offered by competing institutions, etc. Tangerine has failed -- nay, refused -- to reveal on what basis one client is favoured over another. All the reps will say is that it's a complicated profiling.
It is a private business. It is probably under no obligation to release it's methodology to you.
Pickles wrote:As a BNS shareholder, I am concerned that Tangerine's management has alienated me -- a ING then Tangerine saver for 21 years -- and many others. This reflects badly on BNS which owns Tangerine. It calls into question the management of the company and the direction it wishes to take.
You are probably conflating your indignation with the importance of your account. A few disgruntled people on an internet forum most likely represent a tiny subset of clientele. They complain louder, certainly, but probably not enough to be of any concern to Tangerine.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by Pickles »

Koogie wrote:
Pickles wrote:Your arithmetic is a bit dodgy, too. You suggest that the difference of half a percent amounts to "around $250 at the very most". Well, no. At the very most, one can claim the preferential rate on a balance of $500,000. $500,000 X 0.5% =$2,500 (yearly interest). The promotion lasts 90 days -- say, for the sake of simplicity -- 24.66% of a year. $2,500 X 24.66% = $616.60 . Of course this sum is likely to be substantially larger, given that Tangerine offers several interest promotions per year.
If you are keeping $500,000 in a HISA at Tangerine, I would suggest you have bigger problems than a half percentage loss. Most people would keep the CDIC max, $100,000. So, my example stands. You might be an outlier.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Nice try at redirecting. Your math was wrong. I gave the $500,000 example not as a personal example but because you stated that "at the very most" the difference would be around $250.

But think again about who you label "an outlier". Take a family which has $500,000 from a recent inheritance or the sale of their home which they need to keep liquid for a short but undetermined time while they look for a house. A daily interest savings account provides liquidity (plus insurance up to $100,000 per account) and is suited to their need. A 2.5% interest rate is golden in this situation, being a better rate than a 5 year GIC. Tangerine's saving account would be a wise choice for them.

Koogie wrote: It is a private business. It is probably under no obligation to release it's [sic] methodology to you.
You're right. But I could ask and I did. As a federally regulated institution it is subject to federal human rights and privacy laws, something I pointed out to the rep as a point for Tangerine to ponder.

Koogie, if you're willing and happy to accept 25% less than others on an identical investment in cash, please go ahead. It's your God given right. But bad arithmetic, scolding and scorning your fellow FWF members is neither "useful" nor "mature".
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

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Pickles wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: Nice try at redirecting. Your math was wrong. I gave the $500,000 example not as a personal example but because you stated that "at the very most" the difference would be around $250.
Ah, no. As I said, MOST people would only keep 100,000$ in a Tangerine HISA. 100,000$ at (2.5%-2%) is $500 (lets pretend the special lasts all year) If taxable it is considerably less (perhaps like, say, $250)
Pickles wrote:But think again about who you label "an outlier". Take a family which has $500,000 from a recent inheritance or the sale of their home which they need to keep liquid for a short but undetermined time while they look for a house. A daily interest savings account provides liquidity (plus insurance up to $100,000 per account) and is suited to their need. A 2.5% interest rate is golden in this situation, being a better rate than a 5 year GIC. Tangerine's saving account would be a wise choice for them.
Your imaginary real estate family is a perfect example of an outlier. Thank you.
Koogie wrote:It is a private business. It is probably under no obligation to release it's [sic] methodology to you.
Pickles wrote:You're right.

Thank you.
Pickles wrote:Koogie, if you're willing and happy to accept 25% less than others on an identical investment in cash, please go ahead. It's your God given right. But bad arithmetic, scolding and scorning your fellow FWF members is neither "useful" nor "mature".
I'm not a Tangerine user. I find it funny that you all complain bitterly every 3 months and still go cap in hand back to Tangerine every time. But that is your prerogative. I just find it distasteful when someone demeans the concept of human rights to complain they didn't get a half percent bonus on their savings...
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by Flaccidsteele »

Koogie wrote:I'm not a Tangerine user. I find it funny that you all complain bitterly every 3 months and still go cap in hand back to Tangerine every time. But that is your prerogative. I just find it distasteful when someone demeans the concept of human rights to complain they didn't get a half percent bonus on their savings...
Considering the demographics of this forum, I find this odd as well.

To each their own.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

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Koogie wrote:I own a business. We don't put up with abusive customers. If someone called in and complained that we had given someone else a better deal and then complained about their "human rights" or threatened to send a "letter to the authorities" we would laugh at them and gladly and quickly tell them to take their business elsewhere.
Actually there are a few lessons for you here too. I don't know what type of business you claim to be involved with but:
1. it is easier and less expensive to appease and thus keep an existing customer than to find yet another new one.
2. bad reviews and complaints are corrosive to revenue and long lasting when published in social media.
Koogie wrote:If you don't like their "capricious marketing ploy" take your business elsewhere. Or be prepared to put up with it and deal with it without making specious threats. Call that a lesson you should have learnt by now.
If you had read the comments with some comprehension you would have learned that you do not have to take your business elsewhere or "put up with it" and, indeed, you can actually resolve it with threats, specious or otherwise.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by Koogie »

Descartes wrote:Actually there are a few lessons for you here too. I don't know what type of business you claim to be involved with but:
1. it is easier and less expensive to appease and thus keep an existing customer than to find yet another new one.
2. bad reviews and complaints are corrosive to revenue and long lasting when published in social media..
Thanks for the lessons. Not sure how I could have gotten through the last 14 years without these insights. Mind you, they are incorrect or incomplete.
1. Have you heard of the Pareto Principle ? I can assure you that people who call in and complain and threaten very much belong in the 80% group.
Those customers often are not worth having. Perhaps that is a way Tangerine might be screening who they make their offers to ? hmmm.....
2. Ohhh no,,, not "social media" !! Perhaps it is the be all and end all to the type of people who spend all their day on Twitter but the rest of the world (including a lot of businesses and virtually all industry) could give much of a damn about it.
Descartes wrote:If you had read the comments with some comprehension you would have learned that you do not have to take your business elsewhere or "put up with it" and, indeed, you can actually resolve it with threats, specious or otherwise.
If you find you are the type of person who feels the need to go through life calling people names and threatening everyone in order to get what you want.. you will find you are often treated accordingly. Best of luck to you.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by Descartes »

I apologize for naming you a fool: it was both rude and unnecessary.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

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So the 3.25% Tangerine rate on my TFSA cash (~$50k) ends today and will revert to 0.80% tomorrow :x

PC Financial's 2.25% offer seems compelling but I would rather give Tangerine the chance to retain my business with a "price match". :thumbsup:

Any recommended language I should use with the phone rep when calling Tangerine this weekend?
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

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fundamental wrote:Any recommended language I should use with the phone rep when calling Tangerine this weekend?
Don't start by asking if they will give you a better rate than 0.8% - that will get you nowhere. Start by telling them their rate is not competitive, and you want to move all of your money to another institution. They will probably ask what rate other competitors have offered, and you can tell them the PCF offer of 2.25%. I would call them today rather than on the weekend, as the weekend staff may not have the authority to make a better offer.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

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fundamental wrote:So the 3.25% Tangerine rate on my TFSA cash (~$50k) ends today and will revert to 0.80% tomorrow :x

PC Financial's 2.25% offer seems compelling but I would rather give Tangerine the chance to retain my business with a "price match". :thumbsup:

Any recommended language I should use with the phone rep when calling Tangerine this weekend?
Shouldn't be a problem, they are already handing out 3% to the end of the year to anyone that asks/begs or does the TING dance. :lol:


http://forums.redflagdeals.com/tangerin ... 2042572/7/
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by GreatLaker »

Interesting! If you read the earlier posts in that RFD thread TING seemed to be maxing out at 2.5% yesterday, then upped it to 3% today. Not sure why since PCF is the highest other rate at 2.25%. Must really need the $.

I had 3.25% expiring today. I called in yesterday and was offered 2.5% for 90 days on my existing balance and any new $ up to $500k. Did not have to threaten to leave, or quote other rates. I nicely asked if they had any better promotional rates. The rep put me on hold for a few secs and came back with the offer, and read a long list of caveats that it was not a promotional rate, the rate was based on my history and may not be applicable to my friends, family or anybody else that happened to read it on an internet forum. He even suggested that when this rate expires in 90 days I should call back in again to find out the best available rate. :D
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by 2of3aintbad »

rhenderson wrote:
fundamental wrote:So the 3.25% Tangerine rate on my TFSA cash (~$50k) ends today and will revert to 0.80% tomorrow :x

PC Financial's 2.25% offer seems compelling but I would rather give Tangerine the chance to retain my business with a "price match". :thumbsup:

Any recommended language I should use with the phone rep when calling Tangerine this weekend?
Shouldn't be a problem, they are already handing out 3% to the end of the year to anyone that asks/begs or does the TING dance. :lol:


http://forums.redflagdeals.com/tangerin ... 2042572/7/
Didn't work for me. Quoted the 3% that others were getting. Phone rep put me on hold for a few minutes and came back with no offer, "since your promotion hasn't ended". I told him that there were lots of alternatives, and he agreed ! I will call back once more, tomorrow, and then transfer out.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by gsp_ »

Never call Tang in the days before your promo ends unless you want to waste your time. Once expired they are much more likely to offer decent retention offers.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by deaddog »

gsp_ wrote:Never call Tang in the days before your promo ends unless you want to waste your time. Once expired they are much more likely to offer decent retention offers.
I always call a couple days before expiry. Never had a problem getting the latest rate.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by gsp_ »

deaddog wrote:
gsp_ wrote:Never call Tang in the days before your promo ends unless you want to waste your time. Once expired they are much more likely to offer decent retention offers.
I always call a couple days before expiry. Never had a problem getting the latest rate.
Glad it has worked out for you. My experience has been the opposite. More importantly, dozens of RFD posters have been denied extensions when calling in before expiry of a current promo and told to call back once expired. The success rate is significantly higher when the threat of a transfer out looms. Just trying to save fellow FWFers the hassle of repeated calls. YMMV.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

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IME TangerING has changed its tactics. Used to only give promo rates on new money, so you had to move funds somewhere else then watch your account for an offer, or call in and ask.

More recently reps are willing to provide promo rates on existing funds to clients that call in and ask, even if their existing promo has not ended. Must have realized there is a base of clients that will move to PCF, EQB, Oaken, MB credit unions etc unless Tang is competitive. Those clients must call and ask. Forcing them to move money out then back is counter productive. I moved most of my money out of Tang to Oaken and EQ based on not wanting to play the interest rate game. Then they offered me 3.25% and I'm back.

Then there are the clients that compare 0.8 at Tang to the pittance the big 5 offer and think it's a great deal. I imagine that's a much larger base than peeps chasing the highest rates every 90 days.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

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GreatLaker wrote:Then there are the clients that compare 0.8 at Tang to the pittance the big 5 offer and think it's a great deal. I imagine that's a much larger base than peeps chasing the highest rates every 90 days.
But the HISA at TDDI is 0.75% - not much of a difference to 0.80%. Certainly not enough for me to outweigh the convenience of keeping my money at one institution.

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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

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like_to_retire wrote:
GreatLaker wrote:Then there are the clients that compare 0.8 at Tang to the pittance the big 5 offer and think it's a great deal. I imagine that's a much larger base than peeps chasing the highest rates every 90 days.
But the HISA at TDDI is 0.75% - not much of a difference to 0.80%. Certainly not enough for me to outweigh the convenience of keeping my money at one institution.

ltr
Agreed, the worst that one can do at most of the brokerages is 0.75%, Eg RBF2010 also pays 0.75%

Hard to comprehend anyone leaving money at TING earning 0.80% :?
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by deaddog »

GreatLaker wrote:IME TangerING has changed its tactics. Used to only give promo rates on new money, so you had to move funds somewhere else then watch your account for an offer, or call in and ask.

More recently reps are willing to provide promo rates on existing funds to clients that call in and ask, even if their existing promo has not ended. Must have realized there is a base of clients that will move to PCF, EQB, Oaken, MB credit unions etc unless Tang is competitive. Those clients must call and ask. Forcing them to move money out then back is counter productive. I moved most of my money out of Tang to Oaken and EQ based on not wanting to play the interest rate game. Then they offered me 3.25% and I'm back.
I wonder if account size has anything to do with the decision. Tang may be more cocerned about retaining large accounts.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by optionable68 »

I called in today after trying to cash out my Tangerine Tax Free Savings Account when I got the Tangerine online error message "your transfer out exceeds our daily max, please call 1-800...."

When I called I advised agent I had the error message and she replied "we can easily help you redeem your funds". When I said, I would much rather leave my funds here at Tangerine if you can offer a competitive rate, she indicated "we do not have the authority to match rates for registered accounts, only taxable accounts.

Oh well, I just asked her to redeem the entire amount to my TD account.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by GreatLaker »

deaddog wrote:I wonder if account size has anything to do with the decision. Tang may be more cocerned about retaining large accounts.
It would be interesting to see their algorithm on what to offer to which customers. Might also look at past propensity to move money in or out depending on the rate offered.

like_to_retire wrote:
GreatLaker wrote:Then there are the clients that compare 0.8 at Tang to the pittance the big 5 offer and think it's a great deal. I imagine that's a much larger base than peeps chasing the highest rates every 90 days.
But the HISA at TDDI is 0.75% - not much of a difference to 0.80%. Certainly not enough for me to outweigh the convenience of keeping my money at one institution.
Yabbut that only works for people with brokerage accounts. IIRC TDDI has a minimum $15k account balance or they impose an account fee. TD Bank requires a $5k minimum for a HISA to get 0.55%; for less than $5k, savings accounts pay 0.05%. Probably lots of people that don't even have $5k for whom Tangerine at 0.8% sounds like a great deal. Ting has a lot of advertising building a brand awareness that the smaller online banks don't have.

It's easy for all of us successful capitalists here to forget how hard it was to first scrape together $5k in a savings account. :rofl:
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2016)

Post by fundamental »

Arby wrote:
fundamental wrote:Any recommended language I should use with the phone rep when calling Tangerine this weekend?
Don't start by asking if they will give you a better rate than 0.8% - that will get you nowhere. Start by telling them their rate is not competitive, and you want to move all of your money to another institution. They will probably ask what rate other competitors have offered, and you can tell them the PCF offer of 2.25%. I would call them today rather than on the weekend, as the weekend staff may not have the authority to make a better offer.
Gave it a try. Tangerine did not offer to match with a competitive rate. Money being withdrawn as we speak.
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