Funeral Home Experience

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Knowsitall
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Funeral Home Experience

Post by Knowsitall »

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!

I have my funeral planned and paid for.

However this is a pretty sad picture of some parts of that business.

Be careful not to be caught up by the emotion of the moment.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/ ... e-1.666443
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Zipper
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by Zipper »

$2500 is at least what they should have paid. That's what CPP pays the survivor.

These people are an embarrassment and to go public for sympathy and trash the Funeral Home is despicable.
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adrian2
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by adrian2 »

Zipper wrote:$2500 is at least what they should have paid. That's what CPP pays the survivor.
$2,500 is was paid in this specific case. It's not a flat amount for all.

And why should they have paid "at least" that?
CPP pays the amount to the estate to be used for any purpose, no strings attached that the money should be paid for a funeral.
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by Zipper »

A funeral is a funeral and an expense is an expense.

The authorities say there was no wrong done here.

An ultra cheap funeral will still cost ~$2000+.

The CPP payout is exactly for cases like this.

I take issue with these people running for sympathy when none is due.
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by sayhey »

We have both decided on no funerals. That should simplify things. :)
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by Insomniac »

Funeral home does more than just arrange a memorial service. They receive the body from the place of death, arrange for preparation of death certificate, and arrange for cremation. If there is a service, they can arrange booking the venue, hearses, flowers, catering, etc.

I think one of the best things you can do is prepay for the funeral home. My MIL did that 15 years ago with a funeral director in Victoria. When she died last year we simply asked the nursing home to call the funeral director; they took charge of everything. My wife and I met with the funeral director a couple of days later to finalize the details and sign some documentation. They were a big help for us during trying times. It was easy as everything she wanted was written out - she only paid for what she wanted.
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by Flaccidsteele »

Insomniac wrote:Funeral home does more than just arrange a memorial service. They receive the body from the place of death, arrange for preparation of death certificate, and arrange for cremation. If there is a service, they can arrange booking the venue, hearses, flowers, catering, etc.

I think one of the best things you can do is prepay for the funeral home. My MIL did that 15 years ago with a funeral director in Victoria. When she died last year we simply asked the nursing home to call the funeral director; they took charge of everything. My wife and I met with the funeral director a couple of days later to finalize the details and sign some documentation. They were a big help for us during trying times. It was easy as everything she wanted was written out - she only paid for what she wanted.
Just as a semi-related aside FYI, embalming is an entirely waste of money if one hires the services of a funeral home. It's an easy-sell cash grab.

Embalming (and cosmetic reconstruction) is an entirely North American invention. Embalming is generally used when shipping a body. And that is more for sanitary and public health reasons than cosmetic reasons. France and Italy do not use embalming and modern refrigeration makes chemical preservatives completely unnecessary.

From the U.S. Funeral Consumer's Alliance trade organization:
Embalming is rarely required by law. The Federal Trade Commission and many state regulators require that funeral directors inform consumers that embalming is not required except in certain special cases. Embalming is required when crossing state lines from Alabama, Alaska, and New Jersey (we find it offensive that the state should dictate what ought to be a personal or religious choice.

Embalming provides no public health benefit, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Canadian health authorities. Hawaii and Ontario forbid embalming if the person died of certain contagious diseases. Many morticians have been taught, however, that embalming protects the public health, and they continue to perpetrate this myth.
As a side note, one of a morticians favorite jobs is to clean all the boogers out of the deceased's nose. :lol:
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by SQRT »

Insomniac wrote:Funeral home does more than just arrange a memorial service. They receive the body from the place of death, arrange for preparation of death certificate, and arrange for cremation. If there is a service, they can arrange booking the venue, hearses, flowers, catering, etc.

I think one of the best things you can do is prepay for the funeral home. My MIL did that 15 years ago with a funeral director in Victoria. When she died last year we simply asked the nursing home to call the funeral director; they took charge of everything. My wife and I met with the funeral director a couple of days later to finalize the details and sign some documentation. They were a big help for us during trying times. It was easy as everything she wanted was written out - she only paid for what she wanted.
My mother has done the same. Contacted the home a couple of months ago to make sure everything was good to go, so to speak. It was. She paid about $6,000 almost 20 years ago. One of the big banks has a separate business for "prepaid Funeral Deposits" Pretty close to a $billion as I recall. These funds are protected in a trust type arrangement I think.
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by brucecohen »

SQRT wrote:One of the big banks has a separate business for "prepaid Funeral Deposits" Pretty close to a $billion as I recall. These funds are protected in a trust type arrangement I think.
If you pre-arrange a funeral, interest earned on the money paid in advance can be tax-sheltered through what CRA calls an "Eligible Funeral Arrangement (EFA)." Here's an article. Note: one potential drawback is the risk that one will pay for a funeral and later move to and settle in another part of the country. This risk is reduced by consolidation of the funeral industry -- many seemingly family- or locally-run homes are now actually owned by national chains -- but it's wise to check the contract for transferability.

Here is an article about a CRA ruling that granted EFA treatment to someone who arranged to prepay for a funeral by assigning a life insurance policy. ISTM that, depending on age and health, using insurance could be cheaper than paying cash.

Here is a portal to federal & provincial consumer protection materials on funeral planning and arrangements.
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adrian2
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by adrian2 »

Zipper wrote:The CPP payout is exactly for cases like this.
That is your opinion, not a fact.
A funeral is a funeral and an expense is an expense.
And a CPP death benefit is part of the Canada Pension Plan payouts.
No link at all with how much one should pay for a funeral.

Once again, many people do not qualify for the maximum CPP death benefit.
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by Insomniac »

adrian2 wrote: Once again, many people do not qualify for the maximum CPP death benefit.
Yes, when my MIL died, we applied for this benefit and got exactly $0. She had not paid enough into CPP to qualify. She was receiving CPP as a survivor benefit.
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by SQRT »

brucecohen wrote:
SQRT wrote:One of the big banks has a separate business for "prepaid Funeral Deposits" Pretty close to a $billion as I recall. These funds are protected in a trust type arrangement I think.
If you pre-arrange a funeral, interest earned on the money paid in advance can be tax-sheltered through what CRA calls an "Eligible Funeral Arrangement (EFA)." Here's an article. Note: one potential drawback is the risk that one will pay for a funeral and later move to and settle in another part of the country. This risk is reduced by consolidation of the funeral industry -- many seemingly family- or locally-run homes are now actually owned by national chains -- but it's wise to check the contract for transferability.

Here is an article about a CRA ruling that granted EFA treatment to someone who arranged to prepay for a funeral by assigning a life insurance policy. ISTM that, depending on age and health, using insurance could be cheaper than paying cash.

Here is a portal to federal & provincial consumer protection materials on funeral planning and arrangements.
Interesting, thanks. The arrangement my mother made was even simpler. She prepaid for a certain funeral. No interest earned and no possibility of price increases. This was a little confusing as the funeral home actually issued statements for a number of years which implied interest was being earned. When I enquires about this the nature of the deal was explained to me. You can pretty well be sure that any interest earned over the years would have be eaten up by inflationary price increases anyway, so I think this is simpler and better. Amounts are relatively small too.
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adrian2
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by adrian2 »

Insomniac wrote:
adrian2 wrote: Once again, many people do not qualify for the maximum CPP death benefit.
Yes, when my MIL died, we applied for this benefit and got exactly $0. She had not paid enough into CPP to qualify. She was receiving CPP as a survivor benefit.
If she had paid anything into CPP (i.e., if she had earned income above $3500 in any year), she should have got something.

My understanding is that, for the purpose of the death benefit, the calculation "pretends" the deceased was exactly 65 years of age, and has applied for a retirement pension. The death benefit is 6 months of this calculated pension, up to a maximum of $2500.

To get back to the thread topic, the amount of this CPP death benefit has nothing to do with how much one should or should not pay for a funeral.
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by Zipper »

Be as it may Adrian, the family wanted a "barebones" :) funeral and then thought they could "stiff" :) the funeral home if they went public.

Whether they used the CPP payout for the funeral or something else, it doesn't really matter. The funeral home is not a charity. The estate or wife needed to pay.

A regular funeral is many $$$1000's more.

The family should have at least given the deceased some dignity without going public with his name.
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by fundy48 »

The above is kind of old CBC news from 8 and a half years ago.

Remember years ago when we accompanied an uncle to the funeral home. He was making funeral arrangements for his just departed sister. We were shown into a room to view and select a casket. The caskets each had various price cards that indicated the total amount for casket and funeral.
After looking for a bit, my uncle, a true Scotsman, asked if there were any less expensive caskets.
"Certainly" said the funeral director, and opened a door into an adjacent room with caskets at 25 to 35% less than those initially shown to us. We would never have seen that room unless he asked.
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by hamor »

in some other thread there was already info on the cheapest way - direct cremation, the prices range $800-$1500 based on location IIRC.
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by brucecohen »

NPR is currently airing a series about funeral homes ripping off Americans despite a federal law that requires clear statement of services and prices. To see if we have the same problems here I goggled on low-cost cremation Toronto and got a pleasant surprise: quite a few hits. While most companies do no price disclosure until you contact them, at least four have posted pricing right on the web and two are very detailed. Looks like cremation in the GTA costs $1,500 +/- about $150. That's for just the paperwork and cremation; the cash register goes crazy the minute you start having them put together any kind of service or visitation. (For the past two deaths in my circle, the families passed up the traditional visitation/service and instead invited a smaller group of family and friends to a lunch. Much nicer and likely less expensive.)
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by kcowan »

brucecohen wrote:(For the past two deaths in my circle, the families passed up the traditional visitation/service and instead invited a smaller group of family and friends to a lunch. Much nicer and likely less expensive.)
In 2000, we did the traditional visitation and sandwiches in the basement. For my brother in 2009, we had a catered celebration at the Jolly Miller featuring his ashes and momentos. It was much cheaper and more enjoyable.
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by OhGreatGuru »

The ad does seem to be a bit misleading. OTOH she agreed to sign the contact for over $4K, then had second thoughts. She should have had them before she signed. Suddenly widowed people are not usually thinking too clearly, and can easily be talked into a more expensive funeral than they want. That's why it is best to preplan.

How could the woman not know that her husband had no insurance? That doesn't say too much about how well informed she was on her family's financial affairs.
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

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brucecohen wrote:........ Looks like cremation in the GTA costs $1,500 +/- about $150. That's for just the paperwork and cremation;......
Have not been able to find this low a cost. Having had two ''basic funerals'' last year, we paid $ 3,167.30 in Richmond Hill, ON and $ 4,067.00 in Toronto, tax in. Both were for cremation, cheapest ''urn'' ( a plastic bag within a black cloth bag), no visitation, embalming, ''celebration'' etc. . The TO funeral home did all the basic paperwork (notification to Government etc.) and provided a flawless process, from pick up to delivery of the ashes. It seems you need to count on about that much as an absolute minimum.
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by brucecohen »

amphitryon wrote: Have not been able to find this low a cost. Having had two ''basic funerals'' last year, we paid $ 3,167.30 in Richmond Hill, ON and $ 4,067.00 in Toronto, tax in.
https://basicfunerals.ca/your-options/c ... -packages/
http://www.aftercare.org/direct-cremati ... -cremation
http://home.cogeco.ca/~lotterybuddy/cremation.htm
http://www.basictraditions.ca/
These are likely pre-tax. There were others in the $1,500 range but I can't easily find them now.

BTW if a person donates his/her body to a medical school the only disposal cost is a nominal fee for transport and documents. IIRC the fee for donations to University of Toronto is $250.
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by amphitryon »

Thanks brucecohen,

great links and now on file for the next time. Seems close to 2,500.- seems doable with all in.
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by Glen »

We paid $885 for a basic cremation with paperwork last spring in Vancouver. In checking the website
http://www.amherstcremation.com/essenti ... ation.html
I see that their basic cremation package has dropped in price to $845 including tax. Their service was A1.
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Re: Funeral Home Experience

Post by steves »

It was terrible. They dressed me in an old tuxedo and facial makeup. Then I was put in this narrow box thingy and shut the lid. Never again!
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