Taxis and Uber

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CROCKD
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Taxis and Uber

Post by CROCKD »

Do you know anyone who has used Uber? My son, a GenX exec uses it.

The Mayor Elect of Toronto John Tory says Uber is 'here to stay,'

The Ubers are destined to win the taxi wars
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Re: Taxis and Uber

Post by Insomniac »

I haven’t used it, but welcome the competition. Taxi companies need to clean up their act. (and their cabs)

Some of the stuff that goes on is disgraceful. e.g:
Passenger dropped off on the opposite side of street from destination address and gets hit by car while crossing busy road.
Cabbie sat in cab while senior struggles to get walker out of trunk.
Cabbie can't find change when you try to pay with cash (hoping you will just give them the change). Funny how they suddenly find the change when you suggest using credit card instead.

I would like to see a car service aimed at seniors. This driver would ensure senior is safely escorted to and from the door of pickup/destination. Price would be fixed before ride based on distance driven. Billing system that senior is not overcharged and does not have to deal with cash or credit card. ...
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Re: Taxis and Uber

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My guess is the app has a rating and comments section. Some taxis probably don't want that.

Taxi sexual assaults: 17 cases in 2014, Montreal police say - Montreal - CBC News

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Bylo Selhi
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Re: Taxis and Uber

Post by Bylo Selhi »

CROCKD wrote:The Ubers are destined to win the taxi wars
This is another disruptive technology. True to form the incumbents, with their vested interests and sense of entitlement, will resist this at all costs, including if not limited to their own existence as a viable businesses. Rather than face the competition head-on by offering better service and reduced prices they'll "compete" by pleading to government regulators to protect their comfortable oligopoly. Why should we expect Tronno taxi operators to behave any differently from say Canadian telecom operators?
Insomniac wrote:I would like to see a car service aimed at seniors. This driver would ensure senior is safely escorted to and from the door of pickup/destination. Price would be fixed before ride based on distance driven. Billing system that senior is not overcharged and does not have to deal with cash or credit card. ...
Welcome to Waterloo Region! TaxiSCRIP is for seniors with mobility challenges who prefer conventional taxi service over public transit or MobilityPLUS mini-bus service.
You must tell the taxi company:
• You are using TaxiSCRIP.
• If you will require assistance, such as an escort to the door.
• If you use a wheelchair, walker, or scooter.
All local taxi companies have wheelchair accessible vehicles and honour TaxiSCRIP.
I've ridden with TaxiSCRIP users so can attest that extra assistance is indeed provided as advertised. Even though it probably takes the driver an extra 10 or 15 minutes at each end to accommodate those using wheelchairs the fare is the same as regular taxis (discounted by 50% to the user by way to TaxiScrips.)

This should also satisfy most free-enterprisers since the service is provided by local independent taxi companies, albeit with municipal government subsidies.
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Insomniac
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Re: Taxis and Uber

Post by Insomniac »

TaxiSCRIP service looks like a good start. They could add no tipping (build tip into fare, if necessary) so there is no pressure on the passenger. I believe one nice thing about the Uber service is no money changes hands between driver and passenger.

I wonder if the dispatcher would give TaxiSCRIP calls a low priority.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

Post by big easy »

It was reported that a taxi license in Vancouver is worth $1 million dollars. Not sure if that's true but reminds me of the dairy industry where the quota to own dairy cows sells for six figures per cow ($100-200k if memory serves).

In truth, Uber is more than just an app putting drivers and drives together - they set rates, collect payment, pay and enlist drivers. I wonder how drivers deal with insurance? Don't you need special insurance for such a commercial enterprise? I bet Uber isn't bothered about that.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

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One of their part time drivers that I heard interviewed said that he carries the requisite insurance on his vehicle and that Uber carries the liability insurance.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

Post by queerasmoi »

I'm not a particular fan of the people in charge of Uber or their strategies for competition (see articles about how they behave in cities that also have Lyft) but overall more competition would be good.

As a fan of ridesharing though what I'd really prefer is a service that allows spontaneous ride-sharing by matching passengers with drivers who were already going to be driving in that direction in the first place, and then maybe only as a second choice sends a taxi-like car. Uber/UberX drivers don't get to do that.

Another innovative idea from Lyft (not available in TO) is Lyft Line which creates a makeshift route that lets multiple passengers ride in the same car at a discount to the usual per-person rate.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

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big easy wrote:It was reported that a taxi license in Vancouver is worth $1 million dollars. Not sure if that's true but reminds me of the dairy industry where the quota to own dairy cows sells for six figures per cow ($100-200k if memory serves).
Off Topic- but: That dairy figure is seriously inflated. More accurate figure would be $20 - $25 K per cow.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

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Have used Uber many times in Phoenix. Fantastic service, generally cheaper than taxies, much better drivers, easier payment, etc. it works particularly well in places like Phoenix that are spread out and thus "hailing a taxi" is not practical. The quality of taxies and taxi drivers down here is particularly bad. I once had a taxi driver that was clearly high on something and kept talking about what a lovely neighbourhood, etc. When we got to the restaurant I called our security company to go to our house and set the alarm. The Uber drivers seem much better especially the black car drivers that we generally use.
The fact that taxi medallions are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in Toronto tell the story.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

Post by Bylo Selhi »

Insomniac wrote:Some of the stuff that goes on is disgraceful. e.g:...
Unfortunately it seems that some of the stuff that goes on with Uber is also disgraceful.

Uber-competitive
Praised in its early days for disrupting unreliable, high-cost local taxi monopolies, Uber now stands accused of using unfair tactics against both rivals and critics...

Uber has never feared controversy. In its drive to disrupt taxi markets it has often ignored local regulations, leading to court-ordered bans on its services. It has emerged that the firm has sent “brand ambassadors” to hire cabs through Lyft, a rival app, who would then either cancel them, or press their drivers to defect to Uber...

Technology firms like to say that in their business one must “move fast and break things”. Whether it is Uber’s attempt to get one over its rivals, Facebook’s tinkering with users’ privacy settings or Amazon’s tough negotiating tactics in its now-resolved price dispute with Hachette, a publisher, ambitious tech firms often seem quite purposefully to be testing the conventions of acceptability. They all risk turning customers, and regulators, against them. But perhaps they have taken note of how the most thick-skinned of low-cost airlines—such as Spirit Airlines and Ryanair—are constantly cursed by customers and media commentators, and yet are highly successful. People may say they are outraged but if the service on offer is cheap and convenient, it will be hard to resist.
What to do about Uber
Uber sometimes looks like Microsoft at its most aggressive under Bill Gates, not simply content to out-compete, but determined to crush the opposition. Uber has not only sabotaged competitors on the roads; it is starving funding for companies like Lyft, barring investors who place multiple bets in the ride-sharing sector. In short, Uber not only has the economic characteristics of a monopoly, but the arrogance that goes with such market dominance...
Added: As if Uber didn't already have enough problems, Why Uber has a Canadian privacy problem
Uber collects an enormous amount of sensitive geo-locational information about its users. In addition to payment data, the company accumulates a record of where its customers travel, how long they stay at their destinations, and even where they are located in real-time when using the Uber service...

Uber blogged in 2012 about “Rides of Glory”, which it characterized as “anyone who took a ride between 10pm and 4am on a Friday or Saturday night, and then took a second ride from within 1/10th of a mile of the previous nights’ drop-off point 4-6 hours later.”...

Canadian Uber users can be forgiven for wondering whether the company takes their privacy rights seriously since it does not even have a Canada-specific privacy policy... Providing locational information is a trade-off that many are prepared to make, particularly if backed by privacy rules that safeguard misuse and provide some measure of oversight. In the case of Uber, the failure to develop Canada-specific protections raises serious questions about whether the company sees itself as outside the scope of more than just local taxi regulations.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

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Insomniac wrote:I would like to see a car service aimed at seniors. This driver would ensure senior is safely escorted to and from the door of pickup/destination. Price would be fixed before ride based on distance driven. Billing system that senior is not overcharged and does not have to deal with cash or credit card. ...
Most cab companies offer corporate accounts. The seniors just present a card and the account gets billed every month with detailed accounting. The amounts are predetermined so they just have to remember where they went.
For the fun of it...Keith
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Re: Taxis and Uber

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Bylo Selhi wrote:
CROCKD wrote:Rather than face the competition head-on by offering better service and reduced prices they'll "compete" by pleading to government regulators to protect their comfortable oligopoly.
They are appealing to the authority that screwed them out of an exorbitant fee for their licenses. I think a license in NYC goes for $1 Million, Boston $500k.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

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kcowan wrote:They are appealing to the authority that screwed them out of an exorbitant fee for their licenses. I think a license in NYC goes for $1 Million, Boston $500k.
Taxi licenses—medallions—"are sold from the City at infrequent auctions, or by a medallion owner. Because of their high prices (often over $700,000) medallions (and most cabs) are owned by investment companies and are leased to drivers ("hacks")."

The price is high because demand outstrips supply presumably because NYC controls the number of new plates issued. "An auction was held in 2006 where 308 new medallions were sold." That's a drop in the bucket of "13347 regular medallions." I'd be surprised if the investment companies that own the medallions and who sell them to one another object to their high prices. But they probably do object to the characterization that they're the ones who are "screwing" the "hacks."

In Tronno the system appears to be more convoluted but the high prices remain—at least for those who have the right type of license. Yet even plates that will expire into worthlessness in less than a decade currently change hands for a "bargoon" $350,000. Again the people who are making out like bandits aren't the ones sitting in swivel chairs at city hall.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

Post by SQRT »

Well, like Toronto's new mayor says " they aren't going away". Service is better prices less, cars are cleaner, drivers "better". What's not to like? Maybe the best feature is the feedback mechanism. If you are a bad fare, good luck getting your next ride. Also, a bad car could have trouble getting their next fare.
I seem to be the only one here who has actually used them. No shortage of opinions though.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

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kcowan wrote:
Insomniac wrote:I would like to see a car service aimed at seniors. This driver would ensure senior is safely escorted to and from the door of pickup/destination. Price would be fixed before ride based on distance driven. Billing system that senior is not overcharged and does not have to deal with cash or credit card. ...
Most cab companies offer corporate accounts. The seniors just present a card and the account gets billed every month with detailed accounting. The amounts are predetermined so they just have to remember where they went.
Thanks. I will look into that.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

Post by kcowan »

Insomniac wrote:
kcowan wrote:
Insomniac wrote:I would like to see a car service aimed at seniors. This driver would ensure senior is safely escorted to and from the door of pickup/destination. Price would be fixed before ride based on distance driven. Billing system that senior is not overcharged and does not have to deal with cash or credit card. ...
Most cab companies offer corporate accounts. The seniors just present a card and the account gets billed every month with detailed accounting. The amounts are predetermined so they just have to remember where they went.
Thanks. I will look into that.
Here is an example that might work for you. Good luck! We set one up for MIL in Richmond when she lost her license.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

Post by Insomniac »

Thanks, again. I think I once had a Yellow Cab driver play the old "I don't think I have change" routine on me. (Your suggestion is good - just use the vouchers)
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Re: Taxis and Uber

Post by Flaccidsteele »

It appears from my perspective that Uber and companies like it, will definitely cause the slow decline of taxi companies. Similar to online news outlets destroying the newsprint business.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

Post by chantl01 »

I've used Uber in a few different cities now and find it has several advantages over taxis:
- no money changes hands. You pre-program a credit card in the app and the driver is paid automatically by Uber once the ride is completed.
- you can get a fare estimate (a range of $3-$4) before deciding to summon an Uber driver - so far all my final costs have fallen in the low end of the estimate.
- once you summon an Uber driver you see the call go out and you are advised which driver has accepted the fare, with a driver photo, vehicle description and licence plate number.
- you can share the fare with someone else who has the Uber app.
- every Uber invoice includes a $1 safe rides fee which is used toward the local background check process, regular motor vehicle checks, driver safety education, development of safety features in the app, etc.
- you get to read and provide feedback on the Uber driver who accepts your request.
- no need to deal with a human dispatcher who may be prone to lying to you about how long it will take for your ride to get to you. The Uber app dispatch shows where the car is and you can follow its progress via a GPS-based map as it makes its way to you.

In my view this is disruptive technology that has the potential to improve service to customers, reduce the volume of vehicles on the road and get rid of the impossible barrier to entry created by the taxi medallion system. I've read that California has passed legislation to regulate "Transportation Network Companies" which legitimizes and puts some regulations around the business. More locations should try this approach, rather than attempting to stave off what is, in my view, the inevitable.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

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My blood pressure rises whenever I read Ms. Mallick's articles in the Red Star: UberX a human sacrifice to the god of cheap
Heather Mallick wrote:UberX is everything your mom warned you about getting into cars with strangers. But I’m not just worried about you, dear readers, I’m worried about the drivers who sell UberX rides day and night. These are desperate people. They are freelancers. They are what many of us are becoming: corporations of one with tiny money coming in. Don Pittis of the CBC calls them “cottage industries” in which drivers do piecework just as the poor in the Victorian era did spinning or weaving at home with their own materials.

But you will call UberX because you can save $7 and you worship the god of cheap. Your religion means the goods you buy are made-in-China shoddy, airplane flights are miserably uncomfortable, Toronto roads are rubble, subway rides have long mysterious pauses between stations, entire lines close down in rainstorms or on weekends, your house is faced with “fucco” (fake stucco) that doesn’t age well, your condo windows yawn in a heat wave and your UberX driver looks vaguely familiar. You went to high school with him, possibly?

All these things deteriorated because you were excited by cheapness. You vaguely recognize the driver because your driver is you.

As the prices went down, so did your bits of income. You could afford fewer things so you howled about taxes (“taxpayer dollars,” you cried) and public services deteriorated. We are now at the point where you celebrate saving seven bucks on a cab ride without realizing that the saving on the driver’s take-home pay means no local shops survive, etc., and that the cabdriver who bought a hugely expensive Ambassador taxi licence to drive 12 hours a day is out of luck. Ask him about it.

Your stinginess is why there is no TTC relief line and why the other drivers on Yonge are full of hate. It’s a vicious circle made ever smaller because you worshipped that cheap god.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

Post by Shine »

Then why do you read them and quote them? Why not just look out the window instead? :P
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Re: Taxis and Uber

Post by SQRT »

Agree, why would you ever read the Star? G&M much better objective read. Star has been in decline for decades. Crappy stock accordingly.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

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Shine wrote:Then why do you read them and quote them? Why not just look out the window instead? :P
I never pay for the Star.

I read it when I can get it for free to understand how other points of view are presented.
I'll quote it whenever I find something I find either very good, or really outrageous.
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Re: Taxis and Uber

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adrian2 wrote:
Shine wrote:Then why do you read them and quote them? Why not just look out the window instead? :P
I never pay for the Star.

I read it when I can get it for free to understand how other points of view are presented.
I'll quote it whenever I find something I find either very good, or really outrageous.
The head of HR at the bank I used to work at got the Star delivered to his office every morning. I once asked him why and he responded. "to see what the rest of the world thinks". Doesn't hurt to keep one's perspective.
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