travel insurance madness

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Springbok
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Re: travel insurance madness

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kcowan wrote:The insurer was Manulife so their actual practice seems to be sillier than their stated practice. So just beware the minefield! They wanted to exclude HBP for the whole trip (6 months).
While researching this, I came across a site called Bestquote Insurance agency.This is the link.

They came up with widely different quotations for same trip. Some companies, I had never heard of. For example April International underwritten by Royal Sun Alliance. But getting back to Manulife, one quotation was from them. Cost was about same as we were quoted by RBC Ins., but they offered a discount for various deductibles. Choosing say , a $1000 deductible reduced a 2-month premium from $395 to $312. RBC used to have that option on their site, but it is no longer there. CAA were almost same, but only because of 5% CAA membership discount and they too showed no deductible discounts. CAA's health questionnaire was simple and had no ambiguity. It may cause us to switch from RBC. But then, the price from Manulife is so much better. Not sure I would go with unknown names.

It's a slippery slope. As discussed in past, this is one area where I wouldn't mind the government getting involved.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Springbok wrote:
kcowan wrote:The insurer was Manulife so their actual practice seems to be sillier than their stated practice. So just beware the minefield! They wanted to exclude HBP for the whole trip (6 months).
While researching this, I came across a site called Bestquote Insurance agency.This is the link.

They came up with widely different quotations for same trip. Some companies, I had never heard of. For example April International underwritten by Royal Sun Alliance. But getting back to Manulife, one quotation was from them. Cost was about same as we were quoted by RBC Ins., but they offered a discount for various deductibles. Choosing say , a $1000 deductible reduced a 2-month premium from $395 to $312. RBC used to have that option on their site, but it is no longer there. CAA were almost same, but only because of 5% CAA membership discount and they too showed no deductible discounts. CAA's health questionnaire was simple and had no ambiguity. It may cause us to switch from RBC. But then, the price from Manulife is so much better. Not sure I would go with unknown names.

It's a slippery slope. As discussed in past, this is one area where I wouldn't mind the government getting involved.
I went through theWestern Financial Group. I liked the wording of the policy and the application. The cost is excellent . I liked a provision were the deductible is increased to$10,000 in the event that you made an innocent mistake in answering their questionaire. For my spouse and myself the premium is a $1000.00 less then Manulife. The policy is with the Dejardine Group.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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I don't know if anyone remembers this edition of CBC Marketplace from March 2012.
Marketplace examined Medical Travel Insurance. Manulife came out of it looking pretty bad.

Tripped Up

Erica Johnson investigates travel health insurance. Find out what the industry doesn't want you to know.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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I had a conversation with our agent (Mediquote) about their switch this year to Manulife. They had been with Global Health in Montreal last year and that was the only time I made a claim (for laser retina surgery. It was great.)

I mentioned the CBC exposee about ML. They said it was largely the result of agents rushing through the questionnaire on the phone and getting it wrong. We shall see!
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Re: travel insurance madness

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zinfit wrote: I went through theWestern Financial Group. I liked the wording of the policy and the application. The cost is excellent . I liked a provision were the deductible is increased to$10,000 in the event that you made an innocent mistake in answering their questionaire. For my spouse and myself the premium is a $1000.00 less then Manulife. The policy is with the Dejardine Group.
I had a look at that company and the cost was no doubt lower. In our case $321 vs $390 at vRBC for similar two month coverage. But they also offered a discount if a deductible was included. As you said, there was a deductible of $10,000 if you answered incorrectly.

I looked at CAA (Southern Ontario)- they didn't have a deductible discount and cost was $400. But in event of an incorrect answer, deductible would be $5000 and you would have to pay the premium that would have been applicable if the question had been correctly answered.

The marketplace piece makes it clear how hard it is to answer the questionnaires correctly. As mentioned earlier, the question about what constitutes a medical check up is not clearly defined by the insurers. CAA do provide a definition:
Medical Check-up* means an annual physical exam, personal health visit or a routine visit
to a physician or nurse practitioner where a complete medical examination is conducted, your
medical history is updated, a physical examination is done, any symptoms were diagnosed, and
any screening or relevant tests were recommended.
But given the changes in the OHIP rules, will a Family Health Unit provide an exam acceptable to all insurance companies?

I am starting to think that best option might be to go with insurer who offers reasonable premium AND low deductible in event of a question they deem to have been answered incorrectly.

BTW, It appears that CAA have formed their own insurance company to underwrite their Travel Insurance policies. Hard to know if this is good or bad.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Springbok wrote:
zinfit wrote: I went through theWestern Financial Group. I liked the wording of the policy and the application. The cost is excellent . I liked a provision were the deductible is increased to$10,000 in the event that you made an innocent mistake in answering their questionaire. For my spouse and myself the premium is a $1000.00 less then Manulife. The policy is with the Dejardine Group.
I had a look at that company and the cost was no doubt lower. In our case $321 vs $390 at vRBC for similar two month coverage. But they also offered a discount if a deductible was included. As you said, there was a deductible of $10,000 if you answered incorrectly.

I looked at CAA (Southern Ontario)- they didn't have a deductible discount and cost was $400. But in event of an incorrect answer, deductible would be $5000 and you would have to pay the premium that would have been applicable if the question had been correctly answered.

The marketplace piece makes it clear how hard it is to answer the questionnaires correctly. As mentioned earlier, the question about what constitutes a medical check up is not clearly defined by the insurers. CAA do provide a definition:
Medical Check-up* means an annual physical exam, personal health visit or a routine visit
to a physician or nurse practitioner where a complete medical examination is conducted, your
medical history is updated, a physical examination is done, any symptoms were diagnosed, and
any screening or relevant tests were recommended.
But given the changes in the OHIP rules, will a Family Health Unit provide an exam acceptable to all insurance companies?

I am starting to think that best option might be to go with insurer who offers reasonable premium AND low deductible in event of a question they deem to have been answered incorrectly.

BTW, It appears that CAA have formed their own insurance company to underwrite their Travel Insurance policies. Hard to know if this is good or bad.
The questionnaire challenge is the reason why I chose Western Financial. I f you looking at a 500k bill a 10k deductible doesn't look so bad. I really dislike the the Medipac[Manu] application form. An issue I have with both the Snowbirds Association and Carp is the amount of revenue they receive from Manulife. Is anyone surprised that they recommend the Manulife policies?
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Re: travel insurance madness

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zinfit wrote:...I really dislike the the Medipac[Manu] application form.
How come you dislike the Medipac application form? I use Medipac, and their application seems similar to the others. Also, Medipac doesn't have any questions about recent medical checkups.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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I should have been clearer upthread about my quote from Manulife. This is for group benefits. My company has recently switched from another provider to Manulife. As a result of this no medical tests were required. This would not be the case had I applied to Manulife independently. I don't know how the stuff I quoted about stable condition, as well as other terms and conditons of coverage would differ. The point I was trying to make is that definitions, terms, conditions, etc. vary widely. It behooves the insured to do their due diligence before insuring and during the term of their coverage. It's probably worth reviewing this stuff several months before going on a lengthy trip, especially to countries like the US where a denied emergency claim could be financially devastating.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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We went to CAA this morning to complete our Emergency Medical Insurance. We are going for longer, so my wife's coverage increased from about $400 to $494. I am 2 years older and my coverage was going to be $795! (same medical conditions). I chose not to take it right away. Hard to see why my premium would be 60% higher for being 1 yr older :(

Have been checking with BestQuote. Costs range from about $450-$600 (less after deductible) from April International (Royal Sun underwriters) through $600-$700 from Travel Guard & TIC to $850 from GMS and $924 Manulife. This for 79 days. Bestquote provide a wealth of information, but sifting through it is not easy!

I am awaiting a quotation from First Rate Insurance (Bruce Capon). Got it. More expensive than CAA $807 with $25 deductible. $10k compassion for 1/2 questions in health questionnaire.

CAA have the $5k compassion max for an error in completing health questionnaire. That is a plus. Haven't found that in lower cost policies, yet.

Neither my wife nor I have any medical conditions - She has no prescriptions and I only take Crestor to keep Cholesterol in check (no change in 5 years). Most of the policy questionnaires appear to be looking for signs of pre-existing conditions.

Decision needed - Is it worth saving $300-$400 on premium and getting a policy without the compassion feature?

ADDED: Contacted Snowbird Medi-quote. They are competitive. With $1000 deductible, down to about $465. No compassion clause though :(
ADDED: RBC quoted $764.
Last edited by Springbok on 09 Jan 2015 19:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Have you got wording for any of these "compassion clauses"?
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Norbert Schlenker wrote:Have you got wording for any of these "compassion clauses"?
We discussed the CAA clause in another thread. But here you go:

CAA:
You must answer each question truthfully and accurately. Your prior medical history will be
reviewed at time of claim and if any of your answers are found to be untruthful or inaccurate
you will be responsible for the first $5,000 of any claim, in addition to any other deductible
applicable to your policy. You will also be required to pay the additional premium necessary
based on true and accurate answers to the Medical Questionnaire, otherwise no future
coverage will be provided under the policy. If you are unsure of your medical condition(s) you
must consult with your physician before completing the questionnaire.
Quest Travel Insurance:
Compassion Clause - (INCLUDED):
Most importantly your policy includes a "Compassion Clause" to mitigate the possibility of a claim denial from an honest error on the medical questionnaire. Errors are the main cause of claim denial whereby providers typically declare the entire policy null and void (except if it contains the "Compassion Clause", which is a penalty capped at $10,000 in addition to the plan deductible and premium adjustment [see page 20 point b)]. The rest of the claim is paid by the Insurer).

P20 b) Medical Health Questionnaire - If you fail to answer
truthfully and accurately any question in the Medical
Health Questionnaire, any claim will be subject to an extra
deductible of $10,000 in addition to any other applicable
deductible amount, and no future coverage will be provided
under this Policy unless you pay the additional premium reflecting true and accurate answers to those questions
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by zinfit »

I forget the wording in Medipac application. The fine print in the last paragraph just before the signature leaves a lot of room for ML.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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By the way, the quotation I received from Medi-Quote Snowbird insurance was a plan called Southern Elements, administered by TIC Travel Insurance Coordinators Ltd. and underwritten by Cumis General Insurance Company, a member of the Co-operator group of companies. The Southern Elements Alpha plan I was quoted cover those 70-75 so I just qualify.

I have been in touch with key people at CAA insurance and they advise that they will be reviewing pricing and qualification requirements over the coming year. They are very interested in the snowbird demographic.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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kcowan wrote:
I have used Snowbird Mediquote for many years. Last year they had selected Global Health and I had two claims, one for a hospital visit to have my bronchitis treated, and another to get my retina laser patched. Both were promptly paid with no hassle.

This year, they selected Manulife. I had a cardiologist visit to determine that I have Supraventicular Tachycardia (SVT). During the process, they actually called the cardiologist before I had seen her. Several calls during the process. I have just submitted the claim for payment. Will report back when it is paid. (Apparently my SVT is not life-threatening because the attacks occur seldom and self-correct within 2 minutes.)

I have used Snowbird Mediquote for many years, and these were my first times making claims. Treatment was in PV MX.
Had to look in this thread to find which company I am insured with through Medi-Quote (Southern Elements/Cooperators group)) :( Replying here rather than general snowbird thread (Maybe we need a snowbird sub-forum!) Interesting that Medi-Quote uses different insurers. Must use company that offers best price for individual after considering pre-existing conditions, age etc.

Hope your claim goes well.

I would have gone with CAA if Medi-quote hadn't found the 70-75yr old policy I have. I like the compassion clause mentioned above.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Thanks. I am optimistic based on all their feedback so far. The funny thing is that they told the cardiologist that they would fly me back to Canada if it was serious. I said "Really"? Start off with $675 for a flight and then add the waitlist for admission (they have to send someone who waits until you are admitted, emergency does not count). Anyway my total cost was 4100 pesos. At the exchange when I paid it, about C$335.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Looks like something might eventually get done about Travel Insurance.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... 8-95007493

Not holding my breath, but at least a positive move.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Springbok wrote:Looks like something might eventually get done about Travel Insurance.
The Travel Insurance Working Group of the Canadian Council of Insurance Regulators (CCIR) published their 'products issues' paper in July 2016. They conducted a large survey in 2015 and base their analysis on this data, not on anecdotes in the media. The findings of the Working Group are very worrying. For example:
  • The Working Group members noted that the same concepts were sometimes referred to with different expressions/words. They also noted that the same words were used to represent different key concepts. The Working Group members also observed that the meaning given to certain key words, such as “emergency”, “sickness” or “treatment” to name a few, do not always have the same scope.
  • Navigating the vast array of available Travel Health Insurance (THI) products and options can be confusing for the uninitiated. The lack of consistency in the use of terminology and the absence of standardized definitions adds to the confusion. In fact, it makes it hard for consumers or anyone else to compare and understand products. The Working Group believes that this could also compromise the consumer's ability to understand the extent of the coverage of a particular product, thus to make informed decisions.
  • Under a traditional underwriting process of a life and health insurance product, the applicant answers personal detailed medical questions in his or her application form and the insurer then decides whether it will accept or refuse to cover the risk. Acceptance by the insurer can be subject to specific conditions. In contrast, THI products are often based on automatic acceptance. In fact, based on the replies to the survey, the Working Group observed that 95 percent of the applications for THI products that were sold in 2014 had been accepted automatically.
  • The Working Group is concerned that the type of information required to understand restrictions, limitations and exclusion clauses might not always be known or available to applicants. (...) the Working Group wonders to what extent a consumer having no medical credentials can make an informed decision when purchasing a travel insurance product as the majority of them are currently designed.
  • Medical questions or questionnaires are particularly important for the application process and failure to properly complete them can lead to very serious consequences, such as denial of coverage or voidance. Any error or omission to disclose a medical condition, whether related or not to a later claim, can lead to claim rejection and policy voidance, even when consumers answer medical questions in good faith and to the best of their knowledge and understanding.
Based on this, Bruce Cappon's very informative articles in Canadian MoneySaver, and information found upthread, I've done a major expansion to finiki's Travel insurance page, to help raise awareness of the issues. I invite snowbirds in particular to have a look at the finiki article: let's try to improve it further.

Submissions to the Working Group are now closed, and unfortunately only the industry responded (see CCIR link above).

What else can be done?
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Springbok wrote:Interesting that Medi-Quote uses different insurers. Must use company that offers best price for individual after considering pre-existing conditions, age etc.
Currently Medi0Quote is using 3 companies: 1 for the 30 day multiple trips for DW and I, 2 for the extended coverage of us both based on costs of coverage for each of us.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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In 2016 I was hospitalized for a spider bite for 8 days. The treatment was primarily for cellulitis and phlebitis which were complications of the bite. The company talked to my GP about whether I had ever had either of those before (I had not) but I expect they were trying to wiggle out of paying. However they did pay promptly.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Quebec wrote: Based on this, Bruce Cappon's very informative articles in Canadian MoneySaver, and information found upthread, I've done a major expansion to finiki's Travel insurance page, to help raise awareness of the issues. I invite snowbirds in particular to have a look at the finiki article: let's try to improve it further.

Submissions to the Working Group are now closed, and unfortunately only the industry responded (see CCIR link above).

What else can be done?
FYI: I (and Tedster IIRC) have policies with Bruce. Unfortunately he passed away last November. This does not diminish the value of his articles and the contribution to the finiki. His nephew Yanis has taken over and I hope his uncle coached him well.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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leoc2 wrote
His nephew Yanis has taken over and I hope his uncle coached him well.
Certainly his founding partner Isabel Beaudoin is still around.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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kcowan wrote:In 2016 I was hospitalized for a spider bite for 8 days. The treatment was primarily for cellulitis and phlebitis which were complications of the bite. The company talked to my GP about whether I had ever had either of those before (I had not) but I expect they were trying to wiggle out of paying. However they did pay promptly.
Wouldn't this be like breaking an ankle twice? Does one break preclude coverage the next time - even years later?

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Re: travel insurance madness

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2 yen wrote:Wouldn't this be like breaking an ankle twice? Does one break preclude coverage the next time - even years later?

2 yen
I think it is more akin to a disease of the blood. Or perhaps a disease of the lungs like bronchitis.
Anyway, now I ask my agent about whether my having had those maladies precludes any coverage. I also check with the agent before getting professional non-emergency help.

One other caveat, the insurance company can approve your admission to hospital for treatment but then withhold their approval for specific treatments, e.g. the implanting of stents. So keep the communication channels open with both agent and company. Some hospitals will discourage direct communication between the patient and their insurer.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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kcowan wrote:
2 yen wrote:Wouldn't this be like breaking an ankle twice? Does one break preclude coverage the next time - even years later?

2 yen
I think it is more akin to a disease of the blood. Or perhaps a disease of the lungs like bronchitis.
Anyway, now I ask my agent about whether my having had those maladies precludes any coverage. I also check with the agent before getting professional non-emergency help.

One other caveat, the insurance company can approve your admission to hospital for treatment but then withhold their approval for specific treatments, e.g. the implanting of stents. So keep the communication channels open with both agent and company. Some hospitals will discourage direct communication between the patient and their insurer.
Your points about communication are very important. We were told by our insurer that a CAT scan would be pre approved, but not an MRI. Turns out they paid for the MRI. They really want to be kept in the loop WHILE the event is unfolding before, during and after the hospital visit. Keep that cellphone charged!

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Re: travel insurance madness

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2 yen wrote:Keep that cellphone charged!

2 yen
My consulting physician during the spider bite episode would come around at 7pm but my bandage was replaced at 11am and he would leave it in poor condition. So I took a cell phone photo each day around 11am and sent it to him. Problem solved! (It was like flesh eating disease with a plastic surgeon consulting!)
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