travel insurance madness

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adrian2
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by adrian2 »

tedster wrote:adrian2 wrote
tedster wrote:

What I don't understand is how one can "notify" Medipac, or any other TIP before one actually gets Medical assistance, if one is travelling alone and is unable to contact them? eg coma?

You don't have to be in a coma in order to need medical assistance.
:?: This is very true and astute. However, it is not what I asked.
Hard to follow your non-standard way of quoting, I'm not clear why you insist on manually editing the text instead of just clicking the Quote button.

To give you another comparison, in addition to what Bylo has written: in order to be admitted in an Ontario hospital, one needs to show their OHIP card. However, when coming in an ambulance, possible in a coma, they'll take care of you first and ask questions later. No travel insurance company will hold it against you if you failed to contact them prior to admission if you were in a coma. Is that what you have asked?
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tedster
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by tedster »

Adrian2, I am sorry I do not cite the way you would like. However, I rather think it is perfectly clear. I still do not understand how a client of TIP who is travelling alone, has a medical situation on his or her trip, and is unable to contact the insurer prior to receiving medical attention. The example I gave was "coma". It could simply be that the foreign country's telephone system is faulty. The Policy is very clear on this. Neither your reply nor Bylo's addressed this. Perhaps there is no response? Perhaps this is a way to nullify a subsequent claim?
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Arby
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Re: travel insurance madness

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tedster wrote:What I don't understand is how one can "notify" Medipac, or any other TIP before one actually gets Medical assistance, if one is travelling alone and is unable to contact them? eg coma?
My policy says "If you are not able to call because you are medically incapacitated, you or someone on your behalf must contact Medipac Assist as soon as reasonably possible". Hopefully you would be carrying proof of insurance, so the hospital would call the insurer on your behalf. If not, then presumably "as soon as reasonably possible" would be when you come out of the coma.
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by SQRT »

Arby wrote:
tedster wrote:What I don't understand is how one can "notify" Medipac, or any other TIP before one actually gets Medical assistance, if one is travelling alone and is unable to contact them? eg coma?
My policy says "If you are not able to call because you are medically incapacitated, you or someone on your behalf must contact Medipac Assist as soon as reasonably possible". Hopefully you would be carrying proof of insurance, so the hospital would call the insurer on your behalf. If not, then presumably "as soon as reasonably possible" would be when you come out of the coma.
Or reach a working telephone/internet. Or once the earthquake/tsunami/insurrection,etc has abated somewhat. :D
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by Arby »

An insurance broker has taken up the cause of improving the regulation of travel medical insurance. With his permission, I'm providing the text of a letter to his clients, and I've also attached a synopsis of his submission to the Canadian Council of Insurance Regulators. If you agree with the recommendations, consider sending an email in support.
Dear Travel Insurance Clients,
 
This is a call to action !
 
I've submitted a thoughtful 24-page Memorandum to the Canadian Council of Insurance Regulators (CCIR) advocating for an urgent need for improved regulation of the travel insurance industry (see attached "CCIR Excerpt").
 
After careful consideration of the current status, I've made recommendations for the kind of positive changes that, in my opinion, will both preserve the interest and confidence of the public, as well as the sustainability of the industry.
 
Although I received a very favourable response from the CCIR (see attached letter), if you are in agreement with my recommendations, now is the time to act.
 
Engage the regulators and your family members and friends.   Please forward this email, talk and use whatever means possible to expand the discussion with others, particularly seniors.
 
If you concur, please consider communicating in your own words your support of my report's recommendations  to the CCIR at the following email Carol.Shevlin@fsco.gov.on.ca .
 
The greater the number of individuals contacting the CCIR, the sooner it may galvanize the urgency for "front burner" status.
 
Finally, for those of you who did not catch my May 26th, 2014 contribution to the CBC news on Snowbirds banks travel insurance claims denied, please find the links enclosed for your convenience (if you're having difficulty opening these links, you will also find them on the main page of our website at http://www.firstrateinsurance.com) :
 
CBC TV: http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/ID/2460092431/ 
CBC radio http://www.cbc.ca/player/Radio/Local+Sh ... 460050013/ 
CBC online "Go Public" story: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.2651318
 
Best regards,
 
Bruce
 
Bruce H. Cappon
Insurance Broker
First Rate Insurance Inc.
Attachments
CCIR submission March 14 Excerpt.docx
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Jaunty
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by Jaunty »

Arby, thanks for sharing the information. I found his points clear and well written. Although I am biased (because I'm old & sometimes buy a policy to extend my time away), his points make sense to me. I'm part of an email network of other (mostly) old gaffers. Would it be kosher to share this information with them?
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by tedster »

Yes thanks from me as well. However, ISTM that writing to the CCIR is not as useful as writing to your MP? He has been vocal it seems for quite some time.
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kcowan
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Re: travel insurance madness

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I wonder if a better mechanism might be one of the causes websites? This cause is a matter of concern to me. But I have had good experience in making claims on extended health policies so I am not a great example.

Here is an upcoming education session from MediQuote, my broker:

Webinar July 3

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http://www.greenparty.ca/no-to-enbridge ... dium=email

Here is a Care petition to the Owners of Ripley's Aquarium in Toronto:
Stop touching the sealife

I don't support these actions but once in a while I do and I get to see all of them.
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Arby
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by Arby »

Jaunty wrote:Would it be kosher to share this information with them?
There is no problem sharing the information with others. CCIR might even take some action if enough people start complaining.
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Springbok
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by Springbok »

I shared the information with some fellow snowbirds. I also wrote to the lady at CCIR. I suggested that insurance companies be required to examine applicants health records BEFORE issuing a policy. Then be required to make good on any claims.
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by tedster »

For our upcoming trip to India, I booked with Bruce Cappon mentioned up thread. His rates were competitive and his list of medical questions comprised on a few. I hope I do not need to use any. :) I bought both the medical and the trip cancellation and interruption.
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by zinfit »

The big question is do you have any pre-existing conditions that hasn't be stable for the last 3 months. In some policies its 6 months. If you do they usually say in the fine print that they are not liable for any issue that arises directly or INDIRECTLY from such condition. That's a pretty wide swath.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Actually in my case no, but one can stay home forever. If you have a pre-existing condition, and it is not covered, then the risk is "will anything happen while you are away" and "what it would cost to fix where you are when it does." Anyhow, my reason for posting is that I actually tried this chap.
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Springbok
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by Springbok »

On of the questions RBC Insurance, and likely others too, ask when applying for Travel Medical Insurance, is "Have you had a medical exam/checkup within the past 18 months?" .

Our Ontario health care system has replaced annual exams with a Periodic Health Visit. The make up of this varies depending on age and appears to be at the discretion of the physician.

My wife tried to book a checkup with her doctor but was told by receptionist that they no longer do them. When she explained that it was needed for travel insurance, they asked for us to find out what the insurance company required/meant by a check-up exam.

We called RBC Insurance and asked if they had a form or guidelines that specified what was required in the check-up/exam. They shunted us through several departments, eventually to a nurse. She provided a verbal explanation, but it was quite vague.

In seems the insurers are not in step with the OHIP changes.

Anyone else looked at this and have a clearer understanding?
Last edited by Springbok on 07 Nov 2014 12:30, edited 2 times in total.
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adrian2
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Springbok wrote:Our Ontario health care system has replaced annual exams with a Personal Health Visit. The make up of this varies depending on age and appears to be at the discretion of the physician.

My wife tried to book a checkup with her doctor but was told by receptionist that they no longer do them.
My doctor (in Ontario) still does annual checkups.
I've never heard of a "Personal Health Visit".
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Re: travel insurance madness

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I also have never heard of a Personal Health Visit.
In fact this morning I have just returned from my Annual which my doctor has elected to do in two visits due to some ongoing health concerns so I have another appointment in two weeks.

Also I purchased my annual medical travel insurance just before my recent trip to Turkey and discovered that the premium had not increased since last year. A change in one of my medications ( a reduction) had occurred 8 months previously so no change in the previous 6 months which is the requirement for a condition to be covered. My insurer through my credit union does not require a questionaire. One woman on our trip to Turkey while hiking in Cappadocia fell and broke her ankle in two places. She had to be operated on in Turkey. The go ahead was given by her insurance company (CAA) after review and they sent a nurse from Canada to accompany her back. It obviously pays to have a good policy with a good company.
Wondering whether there is a jinx. In April 2012 on another trip to Morocco a lady fell in the hotel bathroom and broke her leg. This was in the High Atlas and she had to be transported at night by ambulance across the mountains to Marrakech where she was operated on by a French trained surgeon and repatriated back to Canada, business class with her travelling companion.
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Springbok
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Re: travel insurance madness

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CROCKD wrote:I also have never heard of a Personal Health Visit.
I corrected my previous post because it is actually called a Periodic Health Visit.

We had not heard of it either until my wife tried to book a regular checkup. The doctors have all heard of it, because it affects their billing, but the info seems slow in being disseminated to public. It's been in effect since Jan 2013. As a senior, they may still do much of what was involved in a physical, but not if doctor doesn't think it is necessary. Doctor will get paid for a Periodic Health Visit, not an annual physical. There is a sliding scale depending on age.

This is an excerpt from one doctors offices' memorandum:
Periodic Health Visit: ​
OHIP no longer pays for you to have an annual physical. Research shows that an annual complete head-to-toe exam of every patient is not necessary and offers no preventive benefit. It makes more sense to focus on aspects relevant to your age, gender and personal history, and to emphasize preventive health practices with screening tests and appropriate counselling. This type of visit is beneficial for some patients to have annually and for others less often. OHIP now calls this kind of examination a Periodic Health Visit, and still pays for what your doctor decides is appropriate for you.
Note: Due to the 2-3 month wait for periodic health visits, please book well in advance.


Point of my post, was regarding disconnect between insurance companies and OHIP with respect to requirements for a medical exam.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Springbok wrote: I corrected my previous post because it is actually called a Periodic Health Visit.
Here OHIP refers to it as a Personal Health Visit.

And they say it pays the doc a bit more for a patient aged 65+ than the previous annual exam did:
For healthy patients, the fee for the annual health exam of $72.20 will be replaced with several different fees for the personal health visit. The new fees will be:
* Age 2 to 11: $41.60
* Age 12 to 17: $77.20
* Age 18 to 64: $50.00
* Age 65 and over: $77.20
I too had never heard of a PHV. Last spring I had my normal physical, but my doctor is in the capitation program that pays him a flat annual fee for caring for me.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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brucecohen wrote:
Springbok wrote: I corrected my previous post because it is actually called a Periodic Health Visit.
Here OHIP refers to it as a Personal Health Visit.
That is what I called it originally, because I read that same link. But it seems they can't make up their minds:
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... 9006,d.aWw
2. New Fee Codes Replacing the Annual Health Exam with Periodic Health Visit: The MOHLTC and the OMA have agreed that the annual health exam (A003 with diagnostic fee code 917) will be replaced by a periodic health visit. The following fee codes are for Periodic Health Visits:
K017 - child ..................................................................... 43.60
K130 - adolescent ........................................................... 77.20
K131 - adult aged 18 to 64 inclusive................................ 50.00
K132 - adult 65 years of age and older............................ 77.20
Regardless of what it is called, question is - Does a PHV qualify as a Health Exam when applying for medical travel insurance? WE tried to find out without much luck.
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by Bylo Selhi »

brucecohen wrote:I too had never heard of a PHV. Last spring I had my normal physical, but my doctor is in the capitation program that pays him a flat annual fee for caring for me.
General medical examination [my bold]
The general medical examination is a common form of preventive medicine involving visits to a general practitioner by well feeling adults on a regular basis. This is generally yearly or less frequently. It is known under several other names, such as the periodic health evaluation, annual physical, comprehensive medical exam, general health check, or preventive health examination.

Evidence does not support its use by the general population...

The lack of good evidence contrasts with population surveys showing that the general public is fond of these examinations, especially when they are free of charge. Despite guidelines recommending against routine annual examinations, many family physicians perform them...
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by brucecohen »

Springbok wrote: Regardless of what it is called, question is - Does a PHV qualify as a Health Exam when applying for medical travel insurance? WE tried to find out without much luck.
The travel insurance policy sold by CAA in southern Ontario says it does:
Medical Check-up* means an annual physical exam, personal health visit or a routine visit to a physician or nurse practitioner where a complete medical examination is conducted, your medical history is updated, a physical examination is done, any symptoms were diagnosed, and any screening or relevant tests were recommended.
But if you want to be safe I guess you'd have to check the policy of each insurer you consider. If the policy's not on the web, call their 1-800 line and ask the agent to read the definition of medical check-up or examination.
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by kcowan »

There are similar restrictions in BC which we discovered upon getting a new GP a couple of years ago.

We have gotten around any restrictions by regular checkouts for other ailments: prostate and HBP in my case.

I had another problem with my insurer. They wanted to impose the 90-day rule on a change in medication. That would have eliminated any coverage for that because we leave in less than 90 days. My agent had to argue that the dosage was identical but 2 pills had been combined into one, saving the duplicate dispensing fee. Eventually they relented but it was pretty silly for a while.

Had my agent not brought up the change and gotten their approval in advance, the company would have denied any claims related to it.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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kcowan wrote:I had another problem with my insurer. They wanted to impose the 90-day rule on a change in medication. That would have eliminated any coverage for that because we leave in less than 90 days. My agent had to argue that the dosage was identical but 2 pills had been combined into one, saving the duplicate dispensing fee. Eventually they relented but it was pretty silly for a while.
Manulife contemplates this sort of situation and is actually more liberal with medications: [my bold]
Stable means in the 90 days before departure, the insured person has not:
• been treated or tested for any new symptoms or conditions;
• had an increase or worsening of any existing symptoms;
changed treatments or medications (other than normal adjustments for ongoing care);
• been admitted to the hospital for treatment of the condition.
OTOH one must be careful with this:
Coverage is not available if you (or your dependant) have scheduled non-routine appointments, tests or treatments for the condition or an undiagnosed condition.
So if you saw your doctor about say, eczema, within 90 days of travelling, then you trip and fall while sightseeing, they can use the unrelated doctor's visit to deny coverage for a broken wrist?
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Re: travel insurance madness

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brucecohen wrote: But if you want to be safe I guess you'd have to check the policy of each insurer you consider. If the policy's not on the web, call their 1-800 line and ask the agent to read the definition of medical check-up or examination.
As mentioned earlier, we had already tried calling RBC Insurance. No answers except eventually a nurse gave just three items that were obviously just off top of her head. The RBC policy does not define medical check up or examination.

I have written to RBC Insurance asking for a definition and a list of what they expect doctor to do for a medical checkup. Without this, it is hard to see how we can answer the question correctly. "Was your last medical checkup more than 18 months ago?"
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Bylo Selhi wrote:
kcowan wrote:I had another problem with my insurer. They wanted to impose the 90-day rule on a change in medication. That would have eliminated any coverage for that because we leave in less than 90 days. My agent had to argue that the dosage was identical but 2 pills had been combined into one, saving the duplicate dispensing fee. Eventually they relented but it was pretty silly for a while.
Manulife contemplates this sort of situation and is actually more liberal with medications: [my bold]
Stable means in the 90 days before departure, the insured person has not:(snip)
changed treatments or medications (other than normal adjustments for ongoing care);
The insurer was Manulife so their actual practice seems to be sillier than their stated practice. So just beware the minefield! They wanted to exclude HBP for the whole trip (6 months).
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