travel insurance madness

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Jaunty
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by Jaunty »

We are making sure that we treat every client with the same respect and care
The statement above is a quote from RBC's head of insurance. Seems to me she should have said lack of respect ...
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Do you think the ins co would refuse coverage if you answered the questionnaire correctly (as they post facto suggest). If not this is clearly a scam.
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Springbok
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by Springbok »

Arby wrote:
Good thing that I've never had to claim on my travel medical policy, because my claim might have been refused by the insurance company. This points out the need for regulatory oversight to ensure that the wording in medical insurance policies is easily understood by a typical consumer.
Agreed! With an election under way in Ontario, perhaps this is an issue we should suggest to whichever party we favour!
Do you think the ins co would refuse coverage if you answered the questionnaire correctly (as they post facto suggest). If not this is clearly a scam.
I don't know if they would refuse coverage, but the rate might increase. However, I know some people who cannot get coverage. One couple just completed a trip to Caribbean and went with no medical insurance. But at least there, basic medical issues might almost be covered by OHIP.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Arby wrote:
Bylo Selhi wrote:Travel insurance doesn't pay for these bank customers
...Records show she was tested for heart problems in 2011, after she had pain in her arm, but doctors found nothing significant. Because of those tests, CIBC said Peixoto should have answered yes to the heart condition question. 
The above quote caused some concern to me. A few years ago I was investigated for a certain medical condition, but the test results came back negative for that medical condition, and I was never prescribed any medication. I assumed that I should answer "no" to the question "have you been treated for, taken or been prescribed medication for, or been diagnosed with [the specific medical condition]". I called my insurance company to clarify how they interpret that question. The insurance company said if I have been investigated for a condition, then I should answer "yes" to the question, because being "investigated" for a condition is considered to be "treated" for a condition, even though the test results showed that I didn't have that condition. I asked if they could point me to a definition in the policy for the term "treated for a condition", but there was no definition.
A big problem is that the insurance company is deciding that being tested for a condition is the same as suffering from that condition. Many doctors suggest that women have routine pap smears {to detect early pre-cancer of the cervix }and be screened for breast cancer, If this means they must answer the questionnaire as if they actually have those conditions then there is serious misrepresentation going on. Also they don't seem to want to distinguish between diverticulosis which is normal in someone over 60 and diverticulitis which is a disease process. It's a bit like insisting that someone who is overweight should have said they were diabetic whether or not that was the case. There is no justification for making such a demand and it's just asking for a successful class action law suit.
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kcowan
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Re: travel insurance madness

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You need to take the attitude of a claims adjuster. Did they answer anything that would give us an out? Because the job of a claims adjuster is to deny if at all possible. This is particularly bad for us Canucks because our regular health insurance does not suffer from that problem.

I have to answer the application every year and that is the attitude that I take when answering. This year I had a problem with a tear in my retina. It was treated in 1968 but that does not qualify for their 10-year period. However, now it does. So I can expect some kind of exclusions or premium next year.

Maybe this is a service that FWF could provide? OTOH who needs the aggravation?

The press seems to be presenting random cases which is not helping anyone.

I think a class action lawsuit is a fools' game because the insurance lawyers will load up.

The fundamental issue is doing the work after a claim is submitted. This seems to undermine the principle of insurance!
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Re: travel insurance madness

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kcowan wrote:You need to take the attitude of a claims adjuster. Did they answer anything that would give us an out? Because the job of a claims adjuster is to deny if at all possible. This is particularly bad for us Canucks because our regular health insurance does not suffer from that problem.
It's particularly bad for women because they often have atypical symptoms and therefore the doctor has to investigate them for more possible diagnoses before finding the answers-this means more excuses to deny a claim if just doing an investigation is taken as an indication of the presence of the disease tested for.
The fundamental issue is doing the work after a claim is submitted. This seems to undermine the principle of insurance!
The fundamental issue is that minor claims are more likely to be paid without too much fuss. It's the major claims which are denied which tends to leave the victim unable to afford to sue-hence the need for a class action suit .As you say it undermines the very principle of insurance!
Meanwhile the lesson should not be lost on the rest of us. Who in their right mind wants to do even other types of business with a company which is known to be that unscrupulous?
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by AltaRed »

This whole industry smells and tastes bad. Maybe CBC (GoPublic) needs some encouragement by members like us to continue to pursue 'cases'. They have done good (for workers and their own standing) with their persistence on the Temporary Work Program. This looks like another good (if not better) cause given the lack of government interest and the amount of travel insurance travellers are likely buying.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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kcowan wrote:You need to take the attitude of a claims adjuster. Did they answer anything that would give us an out? Because the job of a claims adjuster is to deny if at all possible. This is particularly bad for us Canucks because our regular health insurance does not suffer from that problem.

The press seems to be presenting random cases which is not helping anyone.

I think a class action lawsuit is a fools' game because the insurance lawyers will load up.

The fundamental issue is doing the work after a claim is submitted. This seems to undermine the principle of insurance!
Agree. I wonder how wide spread the problem is. As I said before we have not had any issues while claiming twice. Granted they were not conditions normally associated with pre existing conditions. Sure sounds bad though.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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It is unconscionable. If your GP takes a blood test, you do not always know what he has ticked off to be analysed. It maybe just blood, but it might be HIV or some PSA. or some other tests. To me, being treated is different from being tested. Also, if one is coughing and is sent for an x-ray which comes back "clear" and years later one develops a cancer in the lung, this is not a pre-existing (and KNOWN) condition. I am not certain what should be done, but a "Class Action Suit" is much too late. Maybe contacting one's political Party might help?
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by Dejavu »

The big 5 just came of reporting almost 2 billion dollars profit for the 1st Q,EACH. You dont get to do that by being nice guys, and "wasting "money on paying out claims. It seems as though their out, is not that you incurred some malad that you hid deliberately, rather that you failed to answer/interpret their form questions accuratley. I suggest that its unfair for them to collect the premium, only to reneg on the claim.
Do they refund your premium when a form filling question has inadvertently been answered incorrectly resulting in a no payout status? I am cynical enough to believe that its intentional from the start, Dejavu.
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by Springbok »

The Canadian Snowbirds Association promote a travel health insurance plan called Medipac. Anyone used that at have cost comparisons with RBC and others?

I am not a member, but thought that CSA might have been a vehicle for seniors to vent their views on this issue. But they seem to be in bed with Medipac/Manulife. (Medipac is underwritten by Manulife)
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Re: travel insurance madness

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SQRT wrote: Agree. I wonder how wide spread the problem is. As I said before we have not had any issues while claiming twice. Granted they were not conditions normally associated with pre existing conditions. Sure sounds bad though.
I think you have missed the point. In the cases cited, the unreported investigations pertained to conditions not related to the cause of the claim.

Leaves me wondering, had poly removed years ago. Also several years ago the dentist stabbed her finger through her glove and requested that I be tested for hepatitis and HIV. So it looks like the insurance companies would now demand that I answer yes to bowel disease, yes to liver disease and yes to AIDS!
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by kcowan »

Springbok wrote:The Canadian Snowbirds Association promote a travel health insurance plan called Medipac. Anyone used that at have cost comparisons with RBC and others?

I am not a member, but thought that CSA might have been a vehicle for seniors to vent their views on this issue. But they seem to be in bed with Medipac/Manulife. (Medipac is underwritten by Manulife)
I use them for 6 months in Mexico. The insurer is Global Excel in Sherbrooke Que.. They have always paid minor claims promptly. I have no idea how they handle major claims.

Web site

(Link now correct.)
Last edited by kcowan on 27 May 2014 08:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Arby
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Springbok wrote:The Canadian Snowbirds Association promote a travel health insurance plan called Medipac. Anyone used that at have cost comparisons with RBC and others?

I am not a member, but thought that CSA might have been a vehicle for seniors to vent their views on this issue. But they seem to be in bed with Medipac/Manulife. (Medipac is underwritten by Manulife)
I've used Medipac for a number of years for my annual snowbird trip to Florida, and for other international trips. I found Medipac to be the least expensive insurer based on my good medical history, which qualified me for their best rates. However Medipac is the insurer who told me that my being investigated for a medical condition is considered to be "treated" for that condition, so maybe I won't qualify for their best rates in the future. I've never had a claim, so I can't say how good they are at handling claims, but their reputation seems good. My Medipac policy is underwritten by Manulife. BTW, it is not necessary to be a CSA member to get Medipac insurance.

The Snowbirds magazine usually has many letters from their members describing horror stories about other insurers (not Medipac). You can download current and past issues of the CSA magazine here, or click on the link to "Bird Talk", which is the section that contains letters from members.
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by Shakespeare »

So if I crap into Saran wrap as part of routine CR screening based on age and family history, I'm being "treated" for colono-rectal cancer?

This beggarsbuggers the imagination.
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Springbok
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by Springbok »

kcowan wrote:
Springbok wrote:The Canadian Snowbirds Association promote a travel health insurance plan called Medipac. Anyone used that at have cost comparisons with RBC and others?

I am not a member, but thought that CSA might have been a vehicle for seniors to vent their views on this issue. But they seem to be in bed with Medipac/Manulife. (Medipac is underwritten by Manulife)
I use them for 6 months in Mexico. The insurer is Global Excel in Sherbrooke Que.. They have always paid minor claims promptly. I have no idea how they handle major claims.

[url=http://www.globalexcelservices.com%2FEnglish_site%2Ftravelling%2Fcontact_travelling.html]Web site[/url]
Is that the same plan? Your link didn't work, but the one I have is this oneand they are located in Toronto.

Thanks to you and Arby for the input on Medipac. We will have to try them next time we head South.

For those who are interested here is pdf from Medipac describing coverage and costs. It's worth reading the part about pre-existing conditions and just what that means.
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by kcowan »

It should be noted that Medipac is just an agency. They have used Manulife in the past (until the CBC exposee). They also used Royal/Sun Alliance. Obviously their claims handling ability will be a function of which carrier they use. My claim was paid in May 2014.
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by Bylo Selhi »

Whether an insurer processes small claims without hassle isn't particularly important. After all most people who can afford to travel out-of-country in the first place can afford to pay a few $1,000s out-of-pocket. (I don't understand why we need insurance for this in the first place.)

What's important is how an insurer processes relatively large claims, the type that could cause the insured serious financial harm or even bankruptcy. (I've maintained for a long time that the purpose of insurance should be to protect against (hopefully rare) catastrophic losses rather than the more common minor losses that most insured use them for. But I digress...)

So what we need to know is how each insurer handles large claims.

Also is it worth conceding a pre-existing condition, even if you and your doctor don't believe you actually suffer from it, and thus paying a higher premium for it, in order to prevent disputes when making a claim? (For instance you can buy life insurance without medical tests. The premiums are much higher presumably because the insurer considers everyone to be poor risks. But also presumably the insurer can't (as easily) argue pre-existing condition or failure to disclose should you die prematurely.)
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Re: travel insurance madness

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fundy48 wrote:
SQRT wrote: Agree. I wonder how wide spread the problem is. As I said before we have not had any issues while claiming twice. Granted they were not conditions normally associated with pre existing conditions. Sure sounds bad though.
I think you have missed the point. In the cases cited, the unreported investigations pertained to conditions not related to the cause of the claim.
Yes, I understand that. I guess what I should have said was her medical problems. (appendicitis, broken thumb) are conditions not generally enquired about on the "underwriting" questionnaires. In fact although we have not had to complete "underwriting" questionnaires (group plan) the insurance co would not have covered any illness that was clearly a pre existing condition. This was made clear during the claim process. This seems more reasonable than the stories reported in the press. The "underwriting" questionnaires being discussed here are designed to uncover pre existing conditions whether they are eventually associated with the subsequent claim or not. I guess if one was a cynic (most of us when it comes to this subject?) you could make the case that the "underwriting" questionnaires are actually designed to allow them to deny claims rather than underwrite risk?
Seems clear to me that unless you have claimed a medical expense you really don't know how good a deal 9or not) your insurance truly is.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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Bylo Selhi wrote:Whether an insurer processes small claims without hassle isn't particularly important. After all most people who can afford to travel out-of-country in the first place can afford to pay a few $1,000s out-of-pocket. (I don't understand why we need insurance for this in the first place.)

What's important is how an insurer processes relatively large claims, the type that could cause the insured serious financial harm or even bankruptcy. (I've maintained for a long time that the purpose of insurance should be to protect against (hopefully rare) catastrophic losses rather than the more common minor losses that most insured use them for. But I digress...)

So what we need to know is how each insurer handles large claims.
Yes, agree. I seem to be the only one here who has successfully claimed ( twice total claim around $70k US) against insurance. I feel quite lucky it is a group plan and not subject (apparently) from "underwriting" problems reported in the press. Still it was a hassle to claim and lots of follow up questions as you might expect. Insurance is with Manulife.
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Re: travel insurance madness

Post by tedster »

What I don't understand is how one can "notify" Medipac, or any other TIP before one actually gets Medical assistance, if one is travelling alone and is unable to contact them? eg coma?
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Re: travel insurance madness

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tedster wrote:What I don't understand is how one can "notify" Medipac, or any other TIP before one actually gets Medical assistance, if one is travelling alone and is unable to contact them? eg coma?
OK a coma might be an issue. But we always notify the Ins co as soon as we go to the hospital for treatment. In fact last week in Sicily we called them on the way to the hospital in Catalina. (won't let me type the correct name you will have to guess) They have a 24 hour emergency claim number. As it turns out the costs were insignificant so we won't likely claim.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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tedster wrote:What I don't understand is how one can "notify" Medipac, or any other TIP before one actually gets Medical assistance, if one is travelling alone and is unable to contact them? eg coma?
You don't have to be in a coma in order to need medical assistance.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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adrian2 wrote
tedster wrote:

What I don't understand is how one can "notify" Medipac, or any other TIP before one actually gets Medical assistance, if one is travelling alone and is unable to contact them? eg coma?

You don't have to be in a coma in order to need medical assistance.
:?: This is very true and astute. However, it is not what I asked.
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Re: travel insurance madness

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adrian2 wrote:You don't have to be in a coma in order to need medical assistance.
My insurance card says "YOU MUST contact [insurer] prior to receiving any medical treatment." I'm sure I've applied bandages and popped Ibuprofens without doing that ;)

The point is that the insurer wants to be advised as soon as possible so as to have the opportunity to minimize their costsprovide assistance. As I understand it some large insurers have access to networks of [English-speaking] doctors and medical facilities in foreign countries, sort of like an HMO. They can also advise the insured (or their travelling companions) on the vagaries of the local medical system, make referrals, arrange for repatriations, etc.

This isn't much different from property and casualty insurers who also want to be involved in the claims processing process in order to control their costs. (And when you're being sued they want to be involved in your defense.)
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