to buy new or used car?

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pmj
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by pmj »

Quebec wrote:Would be even better of they had station wagon Toyotas/Hondas like in Japan, Australia and Europe.
:thumbsup:
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by Shakespeare »

pmj wrote:
Quebec wrote:Would be even better of they had station wagon Toyotas/Hondas like in Japan, Australia and Europe.
:thumbsup:
Isn't an SUV a tall station wagon?
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by DenisD »

Shakespeare wrote:Isn't an SUV a tall station wagon?
Getting more like a station wagon or hatchback every year.
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by Thegipper »

DenisD wrote:
Shakespeare wrote:Isn't an SUV a tall station wagon?
Getting more like a station wagon or hatchback every year.
Yes and you pay at lot more for it. I solved the problem I bought a Honda Odyssey . More space, better fuel economy and it costs less money.
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by IdOp »

Quebec wrote:This is why I like to buy 5 year old Corollas, which Ipay cash. Certainly goes from A to B reliably if this is what you arelooking for. My last 5 year old Corolla (a 2010 model) was $8k from the dealership (plus tax), with A/C, automatic transmission, and lessthan 100 000 km on the counter. I keep them ten years, meaning lessthan $1k per year in depreciation, and maybe $3k total repairs over the 10 years (battery, exhaust system, brake line, maybe a fit of rust above the wheels...), plus the usual brakes, tires, oil changes, etc. that you get on all cars, old and new. For me, it's a no-brainer. Would be even better of they had station wagon Toyotas/Hondas like in Japan, Australia and Europe.
Thanks for sharing your strategy, it seems quite cost-effective.

My situation is a bit complex, but a rough overview: The existing 24 yo car is a rather large sedan. We don't want or need something like that again, but are probably not ready to move all the way down the size chart to Corolla or smaller, for a variety of (partly psychological) reasons. So it would be roughly a midsize sedan, but we also want to keep an open mind to the other formats now available, as long as it's not too big/costly.

To use the Toyota offerings as a concrete example, the size range is roughly from Camry (medium sedan) to RAV4 (small SUV). As you note, Toyota doesn't seem to have much at a "reasonable" price (say < $30k) between those endpoints. Maybe that's good, it means less work checking out Toyota. :)

Other considerations are:

a) Before looking into this (and I'm still in the very early stages) I had thought it would cost maybe $40k to get something, so to learn there are new options in the $20k - $30k range is good. However, the various extra costs of a new car are definitely a disincentive.

b) Reliability and lack of downtime over the next 5 years or so are a real priority. This and the above suggests maybe a 1-year old car. In that case though, you kind of have to take what's available, you
can't "build your own" from the menu. Avoidance of entertainment systems, electronic gadgets, etc., would be preferred, but may be difficult.

c) Fuel efficiency is not a big priority; car is only driven about 1500km/year or less. (Currently getting ~ 15 liter/100km, so anything will be better than that.)

d) It will be the only car, so being able to cope with outlier usage conditions has some value.
Thegipper wrote:... Honda Odyssey . More space, better fuel economy and it costs less money.
Thanks, sounds worth putting on the "look into" list.
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by flywaysuzy »

Toyata made the matrix, a med./ small station wagon, until 2014. Must be a few used models out there. It was also a GM vibe under their fittings. Toyota also has a Venza station wagon. My old highlander was classed as a station wagon since it had only a front wheel drive train.
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by IdOp »

I have a market timing question.

With new 2017 models now available, it seems likely that at some point dealers/manufacturers will be eager to clear out old 2016 inventory. Based on historical practice, is there a month or particular time of year that one should expect the available discounts on the previous year's models (2016) to be greatest?

Thanks in advance for any comments!
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by DenisD »

Not sure when the discounts on the previous year's models are greatest. But the longer you wait, the poorer the selection of previous year's models.
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by planB »

With new 2017 models now available, it seems likely that at some point dealers/manufacturers will be eager to clear out old 2016 inventory. Based on historical practice, is there a month or particular time of year that one should expect the available discounts on the previous year's models (2016) to be greatest?
Year end is always best - the last few days of the year when they want/need to get sales on the books. Otherwise any month end is a good time.

If you are buying a demo or last year model, sometimes a print out of a reputable online car price estimate can be a helpful negotiating tool.
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by Thegipper »

Does the car rental agencies sell cars to individuals? Do they have an outlet for such sales?
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by brucecohen »

Thegipper wrote:Does the car rental agencies sell cars to individuals? Do they have an outlet for such sales?
Yes and yes. Lots of on-point articles here.
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by Thegipper »

I have went through these sites and they direct you to the US market. May-be because of the dollar exchange the rental companies just ship their cars to the USA.I have rented a number of compacts over the past couple of years . It's my impression that they are in pretty good condition. A car like a Corolla is a very dependable and reliable car. Getting one with 30k mileage wouldn't bother me. our second car is a 2003 Corolla with 251k. One change of brake pads and one change of spark plugs and that is about it. I can't find anything to complain about. It just crossed my mind that I should consider the rental companies for a next Corolla.
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by Insomniac »

Sometimes you see ex rental cars sold as "program cars" or other marketing ploys. Rental cars have a declaration on the title showing that they were used as rentals. This declaration also applies to taxis and police cars; buyers are reluctant to buy a car with a declaration or they want a big discount. If you want to buy an ex rental and run it until it's dead that's OK. It you want to sell it after a couple of years, you won't get much for it.
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by brucecohen »

Thegipper wrote:I have went through these sites and they direct you to the US market. May-be because of the dollar exchange the rental companies just ship their cars to the USA.I have rented a number of compacts over the past couple of years . It's my impression that they are in pretty good condition. A car like a Corolla is a very dependable and reliable car. Getting one with 30k mileage wouldn't bother me. our second car is a 2003 Corolla with 251k. One change of brake pads and one change of spark plugs and that is about it. I can't find anything to complain about. It just crossed my mind that I should consider the rental companies for a next Corolla.
My BIL, who lives in the Toronto area, has bought several Corollas from rental companies over the years. They've been fine cars but have the smallest engines available and thus seemed under-powered to me, at least for TO's crowded aggressive expressway driving. Here, for example, is the site for the Hertz dealership in a Toronto suburb. Here is the site for Enterprise's Canadian dealership. Just google on [rental company] car sales [city]
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by Thegipper »

brucecohen wrote:
Thegipper wrote:I have went through these sites and they direct you to the US market. May-be because of the dollar exchange the rental companies just ship their cars to the USA.I have rented a number of compacts over the past couple of years . It's my impression that they are in pretty good condition. A car like a Corolla is a very dependable and reliable car. Getting one with 30k mileage wouldn't bother me. our second car is a 2003 Corolla with 251k. One change of brake pads and one change of spark plugs and that is about it. I can't find anything to complain about. It just crossed my mind that I should consider the rental companies for a next Corolla.
My BIL, who lives in the Toronto area, has bought several Corollas from rental companies over the years. They've been fine cars but have the smallest engines available and thus seemed under-powered to me, at least for TO's crowded aggressive expressway driving. Here, for example, is the site for the Hertz dealership in a Toronto suburb. Here is the site for Enterprise's Canadian dealership. Just google on [rental company] car sales [city]
Yes they could use a bit more jam. The 2 L engine is a more powerful engine. May-be a Civic has more power? My main vehicle has generally been a Honda and I have had excellent experience with their vehicles.
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by IdOp »

DenisD wrote:Not sure when the discounts on the previous year's models are greatest. But the longer you wait, the poorer the selection of previous year's models.
For sure, the supply can only go down. I'm close to finding out what it is now and we'll see how long it lasts.
planB wrote:Year end is always best - the last few days of the year when they want/need to get sales on the books. Otherwise any month end is a good time.
Thanks, I was thinking the same might be the case. It's too bad in a way, late December is not an ideal time to be out doing this kind of thing, with the weather and the traffic.
If you are buying a demo or last year model, sometimes a print out of a reputable online car price estimate can be a helpful negotiating tool.
Yes, I'm planning to use unhaggle's info to the extent possible.
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by Shakespeare »

It's too bad in a way, late December is not an ideal time to be out doing this kind of thing, with the weather and the traffic.
Why do you think it's cheaper? :wink:
Sic transit gloria mundi. Tuesday is usually worse. - Robert A. Heinlein, Starman Jones
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by deaddog »

IdOp wrote: Yes, I'm planning to use unhaggle's info to the extent possible.
Well worth the money.

I believe you get one report free so if you narrow down the make and model it won't cost you anything.

I used it buying my last vehicle. Saved me close to $2500. The dealer I was negotiating with contacted me with an offer minutes after a I requested a report from Unhaggle. The salesman wasn't aware of Unhaggle even thought it is paid for by the dealers.
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by 2 yen »

deaddog wrote:
IdOp wrote: Yes, I'm planning to use unhaggle's info to the extent possible.
Well worth the money.

I believe you get one report free so if you narrow down the make and model it won't cost you anything.

I used it buying my last vehicle. Saved me close to $2500. The dealer I was negotiating with contacted me with an offer minutes after a I requested a report from Unhaggle. The salesman wasn't aware of Unhaggle even thought it is paid for by the dealers.
This is good news. However, how does one avoid being stiffed on the trade in so they can make up the difference in the lower selling price of the new car?

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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by deaddog »

2 yen wrote:
This is good news. However, how does one avoid being stiffed on the trade in so they can make up the difference in the lower selling price of the new car?

2 yen
I visited several dealers shopping for a new vehicle and established what my trade in allowance was before I contacted Unhaggle.

I had gotten the initial offer from the dealer and left to do some research, with the promise that I would return the next day to do some serious negotiations. The trade in value had been established and the negotiations would be on the difference I would pay with all the extra fees and taxes included. The difference quoted was $33k and I was hoping to be able to negotiate it down to 31k. Unhaggle some how got me an offer of dealer cost plus 1.5% which resulted in a difference of 28.5k. The only stipulation was that the unit had to be in stock. We ended up taking a different color to get all the features we wanted.
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by cashinstinct »

IdOp wrote:[c) Fuel efficiency is not a big priority; car is only driven about 1500km/year or less..
1500/km a year? is it a typo?

What about renting a car when you need one?
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by Thegipper »

cashinstinct wrote:
IdOp wrote:[c) Fuel efficiency is not a big priority; car is only driven about 1500km/year or less..
1500/km a year? is it a typo?

What about renting a car when you need one?
Uber sounds like a good choice. My Corolla would last 150 years at that rate.
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by kcowan »

Thegipper wrote:
cashinstinct wrote:
IdOp wrote:[c) Fuel efficiency is not a big priority; car is only driven about 1500km/year or less..
1500/km a year? is it a typo?

What about renting a car when you need one?
Uber sounds like a good choice. My Corolla would last 150 years at that rate.
We are in the same league. Sure Uber would be more convenient. Even North Shore Taxi is an option. We tried that in 2008 and decided that we can afford a car so why not? Life is about choices and some of those make no economic sense. Once in a while we like to head into the country just because. And we have tried hiring a rental. It is a hassle and discourages us from doing it.

Most people live in houses that make no sense once they retire. But they do it.
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by cashinstinct »

Yeah sure no problem buying a car that won't be used much.

In "protecting your money" forum, I felt required to say other options could be considered for 1,500 km a year :D

I tried a car-sharing service couple of months in Montreal but it was not convenient to always plan in advance to reserve a car for X hours when you plan to need it. Cost was reasonable, but I ended up buying a used car.
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Re: to buy new or used car?

Post by IdOp »

No it wasn't a typo, but quite understandable that it might look like one. I agree also that purely financially it doesn't make sense to have the car, so the suggestions to consider alternatives are good ones in case someone didn't think about doing that.

The car is used mostly for short local trips, primarily weekly grocery shopping and driving a quite elderly relative to various doctor visits. For those purposes the cost of rental would probably be out, but a taxi/uber would be cheaper. Both would be quite tedious though. The convenience, independence and consistent quality of having a car easily available has real value to us.

I tell myself that some of the money being saved by ultra-low-cost investing and other frugalities might as well be spent on something like that.
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