how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new car?

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how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new car?

Post by picard »

how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new car?

I am thinking about getting Mitsubishi Outlander V6 XLS. My old accord is very very old. Its engine is noisy.

I need room in a SUV to carry my camping gear, mountain bike. I don't want to get tricked by car dealer.
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new car?

Post by brucecohen »

1. Join CarCostCanada.com. there's a discount if you're a CAA member

2. CCC claims it provides true dealer's cost. Notably, the report also shows factory incentives, including unadvertised incentives to dealers

3. Add 3% to the CCC price and subtract any advertized or unadvertised incentives. The result is your price. Send emails to several local dealers asking if they'll sell you a car at that price. CCC will probably automatically forward your email address to a dealer who will contact you. The guy CCC referred me to was the most straightforward of the three I dealt with because he knew what I already knew. Since I didn't need a test drive, all discussion was done by email. That was great because there's no showroom or time pressure.

4. Until recently, Ontario dealers routinely added an "administration fee" of $300 or so but then routinely took it off if the client objected. Most people didn't object -- might not have even noticed it. I think the Ontario govt has now banned those fees, but I'm not sure.

5. The dealer will probably automatically add on a "security package" for $300 or so. Might include lug nut locks plus etching on certain parts with a warning decal on the windows. Tell him you don't want it. If you want lug nut locks, Canadian Tire sells them for $20 or so. Odds are the parts are already etched and the decals are already on the windows. All you give up is the database registry.

6. When you go in to sign the papers, the salesman will try to sell you rustproofing. Say no. Krown rustproofing is better and costs much less upfront, though probably not over time.

7. Phil Edmonston, Consumer Reports and others say extended warranties are usually not worth buying. Salesmen use high pressure because they're high commission. The guy I dealt with told me he was obligated to offer rustproofing and extended warranty. I told him I was obligated to say no. He laughed and moved on.

8. Do you have a credit card that pays travel points or a cash dividend. The dealer will probably let you put the deposit on the card -- up to $2,000 or $2,500 -- so you get points or dividend.

9. The govt will pay you $300 if you scrap your old car through the Retire Your Ride program. Only certain scrap yards participate. You'll need to show proof that your car has been insured for the past six months. When we dumped DW's car during the summer, this program seemed to be the only way to get money for an old car. Outside the program, scrap yards weren't offering anything because the recession had clobbered demand for steel. YMMV

10. If you're not to fussy, have a first and second choice for colour. A friend of ours is a car salesman and told us the system through which dealers swap cars is horrendously complex. So you'll get a smoother, possibly cheaper , deal if the color you want is already in stock or on the way.

Good luck.
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new car?

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do I get better profit if I sell my old car to used car dealer or trade in ?
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new car?

Post by Darrell Greenwood »

picard wrote:do I get better profit if I sell my old car to used car dealer or trade in ?
Depends. I had a trade-in worth nothing. It was running but I couldn't get a cash offer from any used car dealer. Nada.

Went to several dealers for a new Nissan Altima. All offered $500 for that trade-in.

One, and only one, offered $1000.

Guess who got the sale. :-)

Cheers,

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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new car?

Post by Bylo Selhi »

brucecohen wrote:1. ... 10.
11. Search FWF for the several previous threads that discuss car buying strategies, including buy vs. lease, trade-ins, buying in the US, etc.
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new car?

Post by Nowhereman »

I would suggest before you buy the Mitsubishi, you look at Honda and Toyota.

You may save a few bucks on the Mitsibushi, but resale on CRV and RAV4 is much better, plus better local servvice.

I have always liked Mitsibushi but for some reason, they never really took off?
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new car?

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Nowhereman wrote:I would suggest before you buy the Mitsubishi, you look at Honda and Toyota.

You may save a few bucks on the Mitsibushi, but resale on CRV and RAV4 is much better, plus better local servvice.

I have always liked Mitsibushi but for some reason, they never really took off?
the new outlander 2010 is really good. The engine is quiet and has plenty of torgue. Edmunds review indicates the outlander has great agility in emergency maneuvers. Its drive train is solid reliable.

RAV 4 recently has serious transmission problem which Toyota refuse to acknowledge publicly. Toyota pays off any lawsuit to prevent it becoming public.

CRV is becoming too expensive and it lacks power. In addition CRV looks bland for the price range

Outlander 2010 has HID lights, S-AWD, 18 inch Aluminum wheels, high power fog lights , excellent new opitron gauges, sturdy leather with contrast stitching, wheel paddle shifters, manual-auto 6 speed transmission.

The engine for 2010 model isn't buzzy like 2009 model. I test drive both models on urban streets and the highway.

I will definitely get the outlander.

I did test drive the Santa Fe but it has suspension problem after 1yr. The Santa Fe AWD isn't as sophisticated as Mitsubishi. Edmunds and CR highly recommend the Outlander as a reliable SUV with excellent mechanical, interior reliability compare to other SUV in same class.
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new car?

Post by BRIAN5000 »

Bruce's got it right.

There is this as well. Don't know anything about it yet.They import from the US for you. I was wondering, Canada makes RAV4's. So you may be able to import a Canadian made RAV4 from the US cheaper then buying it here. Haven't checked pricing yet.

http://www.lpauto.ca/
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new car?

Post by picard »

BRIAN5000 wrote:Bruce's got it right.

There is this as well. Don't know anything about it yet.They import from the US for you. I was wondering, Canada makes RAV4's. So you may be able to import a Canadian made RAV4 from the US cheaper then buying it here. Haven't checked pricing yet.

http://www.lpauto.ca/
thanks for the tip. Is this lpauto a legit business?
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new car?

Post by BRIAN5000 »

picard wrote:
BRIAN5000 wrote:Bruce's got it right.

There is this as well. Don't know anything about it yet.They import from the US for you. I was wondering, Canada makes RAV4's. So you may be able to import a Canadian made RAV4 from the US cheaper then buying it here. Haven't checked pricing yet.

http://www.lpauto.ca/
thanks for the tip. Is this lpauto a legit business?

No idea just found it the other day.
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new car?

Post by Norbert Schlenker »

FWIW I bought a car in Oregon in October. I couldn't find a deal I thought reasonable on either new or used in Canada, so I contacted a dealer in Portland which was flogging its courtesy fleet. I got more optional packages than I really wanted for what I would estimate was 10-15% less than (the more basic) configuration in Canada, 20-25% less if one ascribes positive value to the options.

The car was built in Ontario, so no duties or grief about DRL/child seat anchors. The paperwork was a bit of a hassle but not ridiculous. I got stuck over a weekend in a Bellingham motel because of the US's 72 hour export rule.

All in all, it's worth considering.

To add to Bruce's checklist above, if you're willing to pay cash, then I think the easiest thing to do is decide what you want, contact every dealer within 50 miles, tell each one that you're talking to all the others, that there will be no negotiating, and ask them for their best price. Give them 48 hours to give you a price all in. Take the lowest one.
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new c

Post by CROCKD »

Here is an article on buying a new car with links to resources for those requiring education.

Lessons learned from a difficult car deal

See also Bruce Cohen's post in the thread above.
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new c

Post by zinfit »

The Kia Sorento was rated number 2 by CR's with a score of 82. It was in the larger mid size category. The Outlander v6 was rated number 9 in the small SUV category with a score of 70. Negatives were road noise and ride. The price[in the US] for both vehicles is very close. The Kia has bigger cargo space and better fuel economy. Their top rated small SUV is Sabaru Forester and Toyota RAV4.
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new c

Post by zinfit »

I forgot to mention that CR gave the Subaru Forrester an 82 rating for small SUV's. It Has the same cargo space as a Outlander and sells a a very attractive price. Its a product which I have ignored, now that I am looking, it looks pretty attractive.
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new c

Post by flywaysuzy »

Re #8, I got to put $5K on the credit card when I bought my used highlander from a dealer. My brother and his wife just got to put $10k on a credit card for a used motorhome from a dealer...I have a cash back card, they have an air miles one.
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new c

Post by Bylo Selhi »

flywaysuzy wrote:I got to put $5K on the credit card... My brother and his wife just got to put $10k on a credit card for a used motorhome from a dealer.
Note that it costs the dealer 2% to 3% to process credit cards. That's another $100 to $300 that y'all could have negotiated into lower sales prices by offering to pay cash.

YMMV.
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new c

Post by Jaunty »

Has anyone here ever traded 2 cars in when they buy a new one? I don't know how willing dealers will be (both cars are fairly new), but we're moving to a condo with a 2 car garage and a relatively short driveway compared to the current house and we have 3 cars. I could sell one privately I guess but I haven't done this in decades and don't seem to have the mental whatever it takes to feel like doing it. :(
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new c

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picard wrote:how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new car?
I try not to. If a reputable flat-fee car buying service is available, I'll use it, saving not only hundreds of dollars but a great deal of time otherwise wasted trying to get past the sales BS inevitable at most dealerships. In '07 a buyer saved me some $500 on a vehicle that happened to be in very high demand, while this year the same guy came in $1400 better on a less popular model than any offer a friend of mine managed trying his own best 'hard-line' approach on a number of dealers.

Car buying services are maybe not so cost-effective if you want/need to complicate the deal with a trade-in, credit, etc. In '07 I sold my old beater myself via craigslist: it was gone before noon the morning after I posted my ad. (I understand there can be a sales tax advantage if the value of your trade is relatively high in relation to the new vehicle's, but you'll still likely end up splitting it with a dealer, not necessarily in an especially good way. Negotiating with a dealer's rep is all too often like playing chess on a Snakes & Ladders board.)
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new c

Post by AltaRed »

I agree. I used a buying service back in 07 for my "high-in-demand low volume" current vehicle.
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new c

Post by deaddog »

picard wrote:how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new car?
Decide what you think is a fair price, what you would be willing to pay. Add in taxes etc and make an offer.
Be prepared to walk away. I have never had the offer accepted at first and never gotten out of the dealership without it being accepted.
A couple of times I had to threaten to walk away when there was a communication problem between the sales and business managers. They always seem to want to add in the admin fees. “Oh everybody pays that” “We have no control over that fee” I got to the parking lot in one case before they decided to waive the fee.
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new c

Post by Bylo Selhi »

AltaRed wrote:I agree.
OTOH, a recent experience with a broker on a 2011 Honda Civic. First I did some due diligence at a local Honda dealer. They were clearing out the 2011s to make way for the 2012s that began to arrive in April and were offering various discounts. (As an aside, the Civic was actually cheaper than the smaller and lesser-equipped Fit.) We did a test drive and got the dealer's "best" price.

Then I went to the broker recommended by Canadian MoneySaver, who charged me $170 up front (less a one year renewal to CMS.) After calling around southern Ontario he found a dealer in the GTA that was willing to go $300 below the local dealer. So in the end the savings was only about $150 plus the hassle and cost of driving to Tronno. (One car both ways, the new car one way.) The transaction with the business manager at the Tronno dealer was relatively fast and hassle-free. I'm sure he's done this many times before. But still, $150 isn't much of a savings over the convenience of doing the deed locally. I believe this was an anomaly as Honda was clearing out the last year's model. The real value of the broker in this instance was to validate the local dealer's price.

That said, I've used brokers in the past with substantial savings even over the prices I'd got from APA or after personally negotiating for a "best" price.

My criticisms of the CMS-recommended broker:
1. He seems very abrupt and in a rush. Presumably he has to do several deals a day at $170 in order to pay his bills.
2. His spiel is misleading. He claimed he saved me $1000s (IIRC about $3,500) over list price. That's bullshit because he doesn't deserve any credit for all the publicly-advertised Honda promotions and discounts. I'm not paying him for that. I'm only paying him for discounts below those prices.

So as always, YSMV.
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new c

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deaddog wrote:A couple of times I had to threaten to walk away when there was a communication problem between the sales and business managers. They always seem to want to add in the admin fees. “Oh everybody pays that” “We have no control over that fee” I got to the parking lot in one case before they decided to waive the fee.
I guess I'm a hypersensitive type: if you tell me you're so much as thinking of charging me a fee for filling out the order form, you've lost my business. :)
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new c

Post by Yukon Maiden »

^oh yeah, the admin fee. Toyota wanted to tack $350 on for that. What's that for? Um, the lady down south. What does she do? Um, paperwork. And why am I paying for your employees extra to do their job? Um, everybody does. Well, not this chick.
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new c

Post by CreditCardsCA »

Fix the price first, before any extras. That includes a trade-in. One of the reasons they ask right away whether you have a vehicle to trade in is so that they don't need to be as transparent about price. Just say "no", then fix a price for the new vehicle. Once the price is fixed, ask what they will give you for a trade-in. One guy just looked at me and didn't even try. He told me I would get more for it by selling privately.
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Re: how do you guys negotiate with car salesman to buy new c

Post by max88 »

I followed brucecohen's post above for a new vehicle. Thanks brucecohen.

http://www.financialwisdomforum.org/for ... 50#p496867
max88 wrote:Following the method in a post of this thread, I helped a brother in-law purchase a new vehicle. Cannot find the specific post, but thanks to the poster.

- Find the vehicle of choice, trim/colour/options.
- look up dealer cost and incentives via both car cost Canada and Unhaggle.com.
- Send emails (either via dealer's website email form, or direct email address) to all dealers within a certain distance. State the vehicle, trim/colour/options, and specifically mention I have done CCC and unhaggle. Ask dealers for their lowest price, and delivery date. Also mention that I thank all those who reply, however only the dealer with lowest price and reasonable delivery date will be contacted.
- Contact the dealer with lowest price. Schedule appointment.
- Make deposit.
- Pick up new vehicle in a little over 3 weeks.

Save over $2,800 on a $44,000 vehicle. Note that patience is a must. My dealer always avoided to promise a delivery date, when I followed up, until he had the vehicle. If you want a vehicle in a hurry, you have to bid up and pay more.
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