Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby Bylo Selhi » 09 Dec 2009 17:01

WishingWealth wrote:Anyone has/had this issue and solved it?
When you generate the report, assuming there's some US$ (or other non-CA$) securities, is "Transaction Exchange Rate" checked?

Peculiar_Investor wrote:Real programmers don't write Help text, the functionality is what it is. Why should you need Help text? :wink:
Documentation explains how the software is supposed to work. Code explains how it actually works ;)

When I used to report mainframe operating system bugs to IBM I gained some insights into what goes on behind closed doors in the kitchen. IBM would close my problem reports using various categories, e.g. "fix issued," "user error," "working as designed" and "documentation error." Working as designed meant that regardless of what the documentation said, according to the developers the software was working as they'd designed it (and "trust us" because the functional specs were confidential.) Documentation error meant that even if the documentation correctly described how the software was supposed to work, it was far easier to get the publications group to make the documentation agree with the code than it was to get the developers to make the code agree with the documentation. Documentation error was a favourite when a problem report uncovered a serious design flaw :twisted:

Quicken's documentation and Help is even worse. ISTM they start with the US verbiage then change all US-isms to CA-ism, e.g. an IRA becomes an RRSP. IIRC I once even saw a reference to "Roth RRSP" :shock: Of course you'd expect that by now they'd translate it to TFSA. This is also why you'll see reports produced by Quicken that refer to short and long term capital gains or that allow you to compute capital gains using any of the methodologies that the IRS accepts even if CRA doesn't.
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby WishingWealth » 10 Dec 2009 15:41

Bylo Selhi wrote:
WishingWealth wrote:Anyone has/had this issue and solved it?
When you generate the report, assuming there's some US$ (or other non-CA$) securities, is "Transaction Exchange Rate" checked?


Thanks, I had a quick look and none of the equities in that/those Investment Accounts are in a different currency.

After doing a little digging, I believe it may be due to the way I have entered some cash transactions.
Funny thing though is that the Net Worth is handled differently in two different areas of Q.

But since I don't remember reading about this issue over the years at FWF, I can safely assume it's gotta be me.

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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby adrian2 » 13 Dec 2009 12:58

My Quicken reports are the Bible for tax reporting. I'm using an ancient version of Quicken, but I doubt this area has changed in more recent versions.

Basically, the question is how to "properly" record a superficial loss. Say you have 1000 shares of ABC with a cost base of $10k. For simplicity, I'm assuming $0 commissions on transactions. On December 4, you sell for all your stake for $8 / share. Your capital loss is $2k. On December 11, for whatever reason, you decide to buy back 1000 shares for $7.50 / share. The capital loss has become superficial. How do you reconcile your Quicken reports with what you should report on your tax return?

I have two solutions, both of them reporting properly for the current year, and slightly less advantageous to you for future years, but at least CRA can't ask for more (the formula works to their advantage).

Solution 1: Change the December 11 buy to December 3. Change the December 4 sell to use "specific lots" (U.S. method) and adjust the lot numbers until you get a $0 capital gain on the transaction. The remaining shares will have the appropriate cost base so that if you sell them in the future, the correct gain/loss will be calculated.

Solution 2: On December 3, record a fictitious Return of Capital for ABC shares of $2000. This will ensure the December 4 transaction results in no gain/loss. On December 5 (or 12, or any day in between), record a fictitious negative Return of Capital for ABC shares of -$2000. This would restore the proper cash balance and the proper cost base for future sells.

Solution 2 works even if your December 11 buy is for more than $8 (the first solution won't work in that case).

What is the disadvantage I mentioned initially, which works against you and for CRA? It applies for a hypothetical future partial sell of ABC. The proper calculation "suspends" the initial superficial loss and does not embed it in the cost base of the substituted property (the 1000 shares you've acquired on December 11). So their actual cost base is lower ($7500 instead of $9500 using any of the methods above), and any future sell would result in a higher capital gain than the gain calculated using my method(s). OTOH, the prescribed calculation would then subtract the "suspended loss" and result, if I'm not mistaken, in a lower tax due than with my calculations, which spread the "suspended loss" equally against all shares (while the proper calculation would allow you to use the full suspended loss even for a partial future sell). Note, again, that this is applicable only for future partial sells - any future full sell is handled correctly.

I'm willing to live with potentially paying a little extra to CRA instead of keeping track of suspended losses per security and so on. Do you have a better solution?
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby Norbert Schlenker » 14 Dec 2009 12:23

adrian2 wrote:OTOH, the prescribed calculation would then subtract the "suspended loss" and result, if I'm not mistaken, in a lower tax due than with my calculations, which spread the "suspended loss" equally against all shares (while the proper calculation would allow you to use the full suspended loss even for a partial future sell). Note, again, that this is applicable only for future partial sells - any future full sell is handled correctly.

This isn't my understanding of how to handle superficial losses. I just add the loss to the ACB of the newly acquired (and still held) shares. Do you have an authority for full use of a "suspended loss" against a partial sale?
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby IdOp » 14 Dec 2009 13:22

Not a Quicken user here, but method 2 sounds reasonable.

To add to Norbert's comment and question: if it were possible to re-capture the entire amount of the loss by selling a single share, then wouldn't this be a huge loop-hole making the superficial loss rule ineffective? (Not to mention the inconsistent treatment of identical property.)
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby adrian2 » 14 Dec 2009 21:35

Norbert Schlenker wrote:This isn't my understanding of how to handle superficial losses. I just add the loss to the ACB of the newly acquired (and still held) shares. Do you have an authority for full use of a "suspended loss" against a partial sale?

I think you're right. The loss is "suspended" only if the new shares are acquired not by yourself, but an affiliated entity, like a corporation controlled by you and so on. In that case, the loss "hangs in the air" until you eventually re-buy the shares, when the loss is added to the ACB. If you never re-acquire the shares, the loss disappears in the ether.

Bottom line: your solution is the proper one. As for us Quicken users, I think either of my solutions upthread would work correctly.
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby Clock Watcher » 04 Jan 2010 14:41

I wonder if Quicken has an API? It seems that it does not take into account the currency exchange rates in some of its reports. I am thinking perhaps I can hire a student to do some customized report programming.
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby travesty » 04 Jan 2010 16:20

No API, AFAIK.
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby iamcanadian » 04 Jan 2010 16:39

I have a DB Pension Plan. Does anyone know how to setup this as an account in Quicken? the 'Retirement' account under the Investment requires securities to be held in this a/c, which does not reflect the style of the Pension plan.

i am trying to track my total NW, and the DBPP is a sizable chunk, hence would like to track it as accurately as I can (or Quicken can).

thanks
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby AltaRed » 04 Jan 2010 16:49

I put such things in the Property & Debt Centre portion of Quicken, along with Real Property, etc.
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby Peculiar_Investor » 04 Jan 2010 17:41

Now that the holiday season is past, I've been looking at the possibility of moving from Quicken 2007 to Quicken 2010. I was reading alt.comp.software.financial.quicken and found this link, http://quicken.intuit.com/lp/qkn10/qlp1 ... 6301262157. Save 50% on Quicken® 2010, valid until 4-Jan-2010. Unfortunately this is the US version. It would appear that Canadians are SOL on this offer :evil:
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby DenisD » 04 Jan 2010 22:24

Clock Watcher wrote:I wonder if Quicken has an API? It seems that it does not take into account the currency exchange rates in some of its reports. I am thinking perhaps I can hire a student to do some customized report programming.

Maybe you can export it to an Excel readable file.
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby Clock Watcher » 14 Jan 2010 02:15

Clock Watcher wrote:I am about to attempt the impossible next weekend. I will be upgrading from Q98 (with Y2K patch) to the latest. Wish me luck! I may just have to take them up on the money-back guarantee.


Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I can't believe that it went without a hitch. As suggested, I completely uninstalled and removed all executables/registry entries for Q98. It automatically converted the Q98 data file to Q2010 format, and everything seems to be fine, including the reports which are showing the correct numbers. The conversion appeared to consist of 2 steps - first to 2003, then to 2010.

It is prompting me to register about every 2nd time I start it, but I won't be able to, since that computer is not on the Internet, and I don't want to connect it. Hopefully it won't stop working without registration, as Q98 did.
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby Peculiar_Investor » 15 Jan 2010 17:04

So is Quicken as we know it destined for the scrap bin? Mint Makes a Quick Mark on Intuit: As Intuit integrates its $170 million acquisition, Mint founder Aaron Patzer is swiftly reshaping the company's Quicken personal finance software
In the on-air discussion, Patzer said Intuit plans to keep selling desktop versions of Quicken for Windows PCs and Apple (AAPL) Macs for perhaps five years further. That's mainly to appeal to "older" users who "feel more comfortable" with their finances on a personal computer, he said. Within about two years, the company plans to combine the software code of Mint.com and Quicken into a product that would let users readily switch between desktop and online modes.

I'm guessing that many of Quicken's "older" users will have something to say on the matter.
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby Bylo Selhi » 15 Jan 2010 17:44

Peculiar_Investor wrote:I'm guessing that many of Quicken's "older" users will have something to say on the matter.

A major issue for Canucks is that Mint doesn't work in the GWN. (That may change "RSN", assuming Aaron's attention isn't being consumed by the Quicken assimilation.)
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby WishingWealth » 15 Jan 2010 19:26

From the article.

...
During the TV interview, Patzer got in a dig at Quicken, whose cumbersome operation he has said helped inspire him to create Mint. Quicken appealed to an "anal-retentive-type personality who wanted to make sure everything was penny perfect," he said. Patzer, who took charge of Intuit's personal finance business after the acquisition closed last November, said the company plans to combine Intuit and Mint software code into a single "code base" that could run on a PC or in the cloud, letting users switch between the two modes
...


Just one thing to say Mr. Patzer: Pray that nobody ever puts out any decent alternative on the market.
Arrogant son of a bitch.

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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby Bylo Selhi » 16 Jan 2010 23:16

Meanwhile the possible replacement of Quicken by Mint brings out the worst (greed) in Intuit. From an e-mail I just got.
Upgrade to Quicken 2010 Now and Save!...

At Quicken, we’re committed to bringing you excellent value at affordable prices. Recently however, we made the decision to increase the price for both Quicken Cash Manager and Quicken Home & Business products. This change will help us to continue to invest in new tools and technology so we can deliver the highest quality financial solutions to you.

As a token of our thanks, we're offering you, our loyal Quicken customers a chance to upgrade to Quicken 2010 at the old pricing from now until Jan 31st. See below for details.

Apparently my "loyalty" is so great that they'll sell me an upgrade to a product they want to kill for the regular price before they jack up the price further on unsuspecting new customers :(
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby Peculiar_Investor » 17 Jan 2010 01:47

Bylo Selhi wrote:Meanwhile the possible replacement of Quicken by Mint brings out the worst (greed) in Intuit. From an e-mail I just got.
Upgrade to Quicken 2010 Now and Save!...

At Quicken, we’re committed to bringing you excellent value at affordable prices. Recently however, we made the decision to increase the price for both Quicken Cash Manager and Quicken Home & Business products. This change will help us to continue to invest in new tools and technology so we can deliver the highest quality financial solutions to you.

As a token of our thanks, we're offering you, our loyal Quicken customers a chance to upgrade to Quicken 2010 at the old pricing from now until Jan 31st. See below for details.

Apparently my "loyalty" is so great that they'll sell me an upgrade to a product they want to kill for the regular price before they jack up the price further on unsuspecting new customers :(

Peculiar_Investor wrote:Now that the holiday season is past, I've been looking at the possibility of moving from Quicken 2007 to Quicken 2010. I was reading alt.comp.software.financial.quicken and found this link, http://quicken.intuit.com/lp/qkn10/qlp1 ... 6301262157. Save 50% on Quicken® 2010, valid until 4-Jan-2010. Unfortunately this is the US version. It would appear that Canadians are SOL on this offer :evil:

So they raise the price to the Canucks, so they can recover the savings they offered in the US :evil: :evil: If there was a viable alternative I'd move on principal.
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby Bylo Selhi » 17 Jan 2010 09:50

Peculiar_Investor wrote:So they raise the price to the Canucks, so they can recover the savings they offered in the US :evil: :evil: If there was a viable alternative I'd move on principal.

Even worse. When I say "regular price" I mean the same $99 that they charge for a full version to new customers. Virtually all other software vendors, including the evil Borg, offer version upgrades to their existing customers for a substantially lower price than they charge for full versions. And even worse, virtually all other software vendors provide bug fixes and functional enhancements in their new versions rather than just adding more eye candy that makes the product even harder to use.
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby Peculiar_Investor » 17 Jan 2010 09:57

Bylo Selhi wrote:
Peculiar_Investor wrote:So they raise the price to the Canucks, so they can recover the savings they offered in the US :evil: :evil: If there was a viable alternative I'd move on principal.

Even worse. When I say "regular price" I mean the same $99 that they charge for a full version to new customers. Virtually all other software vendors, including the evil Borg, offer version upgrades to their existing customers for a substantially lower price than they charge for full versions. And even worse, virtually all other software vendors provide bug fixes and functional enhancements in their new versions rather than just adding more eye candy that makes the product even harder to use.

I couldn't agree more. The question becomes how does the end user influence them? The 3 year sunset clause puts pressure on the end user who wants to download information from the financial institutions. I'm wondering if third-party pressure via Canadian financial institutions would yield any results?
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby Shakespeare » 17 Jan 2010 10:10

the end user who wants to download information from the financial institutions
Will Quicken import a csv file? If so, you can download from yahoo finance in csv format. That doesn't download transactions, but manual keying can be used.
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby travesty » 17 Jan 2010 19:20

Bylo Selhi wrote:As a token of our thanks, we're offering you, our loyal Quicken customers a chance to upgrade to Quicken 2010 at the old pricing from now until Jan 31st. See below for details.

Apparently my "loyalty" is so great that they'll sell me an upgrade to a product they want to kill for the regular price before they jack up the price further on unsuspecting new customers :([/quote]

What's the new price? Looks like $109 for H&B (which I assume is the successor to XG?). I'm looking to upgrade from Q07, but I didn't get any such email (perhaps I never registered my copy of Quicken?). Can you share the details of how to get the reduced price (assuming they aren't specific to you)?

Although I use Quicken extensively, it is really shocking how many bugs and other issues the software has, and how little is has apparently changed in the last 10 years. I guess the market just isn't big enough to invite any major competitors (even money left the market a couple of years ago). Even in the States, a market 10 times the size they apparently only only have Money in addition to Quicken as major thick client personal finance solutions.

With the ongoing trend to online software as a service, I don't hold out much hope for new entrants in the desktop space. It's a shame there isn't a well-supported modern free solution. There is gnucash I suppose, but this is old school C software which I suspect will slide into irrelevance (I suspect Quicken will do the same, however).
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby Bylo Selhi » 17 Jan 2010 20:35

travesty wrote:Can you share the details of how to get the reduced price (assuming they aren't specific to you)?

The code was specific to me so I massaged it a bit to this: http://quicken.intuit.ca/personal-finance-software/upgrade-to-quicken-2010.jsp?priorityCode=2202-10373

Then I decided to play around with the priority code some more. This: http://quicken.intuit.ca/personal-finance-software/upgrade-to-quicken-2010.jsp?priorityCode=2201-10373 results in a H&B price of only $60! So even though I've been a customer since the DOS days and I beta-tested Quicken for several years during the past decade, I don't even qualify as their most loyal class of user :shock: :shock:

From what I can determine the 10373 seems to identify the user while the 2202 identifies the offer. (BTW 10373 isn't me; Intuit's e-mail assigned me a different number. Even 1 works, i.e. 2201-1.)

Feel free to "fine tune" the URL to get the lowest possible price :rofl:
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby Peculiar_Investor » 17 Jan 2010 21:08

Bylo Selhi wrote:
travesty wrote:Can you share the details of how to get the reduced price (assuming they aren't specific to you)?

The code was specific to me so I massaged it a bit to this: http://quicken.intuit.ca/personal-finance-software/upgrade-to-quicken-2010.jsp?priorityCode=2202-10373

Then I decided to play around with the priority code some more. This: http://quicken.intuit.ca/personal-finance-software/upgrade-to-quicken-2010.jsp?priorityCode=2201-10373 results in a H&B price of only $60! So even though I've been a customer since the DOS days and I beta-tested Quicken for several years during the past decade, I don't even qualify as their most loyal class of user :shock: :shock:

From what I can determine the 10373 seems to identify the user while the 2202 identifies the offer. (BTW 10373 isn't me; Intuit's e-mail assigned me a different number. Even 1 works, i.e. 2201-1.)

Feel free to "fine tune" the URL to get the lowest possible price :rofl:

Thanks Bylo :thumbsup: and a mega f*** **u to Intuit.
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Re: Miscellaneous Quicken Questions

Postby travesty » 18 Jan 2010 00:02

Yeah, thanks a ton Bylo.

Is H&B the successor to XG?
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