Aeroplan

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peter
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Re: Aeroplan

Post by peter »

kcowan wrote:Isn't this just a sign that they are correcting an anomaly because business class to Europe was one of their few competitive advantages?
Whose advantage? Air Canada and Aeroplan are separate things. Air Canada's FF program most recently allowed upgrades with free eupgrade credits to business class (of the order of 15 credits per direction, a typical 'elite' or E50K has 30-40 credits per year) from flex fares with no additional pay. That was one of the biggest perks of its FF program (now called Altitude, not Aeroplan) but as of this year you can only upgrade from flex if you pay $500 extra per direction. Since flex is already a few hundred more than tango/the cheapest rate per direction, this is very unattractive as a typical ticket Calgary - Europe would go from $1700 to $3400, and the extra flex rate only gives you a chance at an upgrade, not an upgrade. The extra cost is one reason why I'm not interested in Air Canada's FF program anymore, but this isn't Aeroplan's problem.

I'd argue most frequent fliers think the best value of Aeroplan was its mini Round-The-World trips for something like 110k miles in business/first class. These still exist but have become much more expensive. (> 200k? I have no use for this RTW, didn't follow closely). J reward flights in general are very difficult to find. The new Aeroplan gimmick of their own 'Distinction' program promises more flights but at what they call market rates, not according to the award chart. Distinction Diamond status discounts those market fares by 35% but that is still typically very expensive. I know people here have referred to flyertalk before but there are endless threads about this on flyertalk.com :)
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2014)

Post by amphitryon »

Split from http://www.financialwisdomforum.org/for ... 27#p520227 -- Administrator
Bylo Selhi wrote:Let me toss out a lifesaver ;)
Agree, this seems to be the most 'practical' way, if red tape shows up. Thanks to this thread, I'm now asking each of the accounts we're dealing with for specifics.

By the way - not really for this thread, but similar: we all know of the difficulty with Aeroplan miles when the owner dies. Mother (in law) was really ticked off after Father died and she'd have to fork out money to transfer. Since it was a significant amount, she agreed with me to simply order Esso gift cards, which she then used at Christmas with great success and at no cost to her. She loved it. I had set them both up with an on-line account earlier and had all the info.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2014)

Post by Bylo Selhi »

amphitryon wrote:we all know of the difficulty with Aeroplan miles when the owner dies
Did you know that an AP member can redeem miles for flight tickets in other peoples' names? Those people don't have to be related to the member, nor does the member have to also book a flight in their own name. IOW if you don't tell AP the member is dead and you know the account login, you can use their miles to travel without having to pay the $30 admin fee or the 1¢/mile transfer fee.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2014)

Post by amphitryon »

Thanks again Bylo. Yes, I was aware but mother did not like the idea of paying the penny either on over 350,000 points. And most of us have had it with AC charging the ''extras'' on booking a flight on points, black out times etc., so ''free'' is not free. The gas coupons worked very well.
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2014)

Post by westinvest »

Bylo Selhi wrote: you can use their miles to travel without having to pay the $30 admin fee or the 1¢/mile transfer fee.
The fee to transfer miles between two accounts is 2 cents / mile
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Re: High interest rates for savings, GICs and MMFs (2014)

Post by Bylo Selhi »

westinvest wrote:The fee to transfer miles between two accounts is 2 cents / mile
I based the 1¢/mile on this: Passing on your Reward Points
Current Aeroplan practices allow for the spouse of a deceased Aeroplan Member or, if there is no spouse, the surviving residual heir(s) of the estate, to transfer the outstanding mile balance to his / her Aeroplan account at a cost of $0.01/mile plus a $30 processing fee (plus taxes).
That was posted a year ago. It may no longer be valid. I couldn't find anything on Aeroplan's website other than this general Transfer Miles page. It says 2¢/mile. But it's not specifically related to their policies on estate transfers.

In any case, 1¢ or 2¢, generally the best strategy is to log into the deceased's AP account, then use their account balance to buy flight and/or other rewards like gift cards. That eliminates both the per mile fee and the $30 transfer fee. Once you inform AP that the person is dead they freeze the account so redeem the points ASAP.
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Re: Aeroplan

Post by westinvest »

Thanks, I had never seen the survivor transfer option. Agreed that the best strategy is simply to use the miles...will have to add my aeroplan login to my "in case of my demise" list.
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Re: Aeroplan

Post by 2 yen »

FYI: Applied for the new TD Infinite Aeroplan Visa today. Have had the CIBC Aerogold for 25 years. TD waived the initial primary cardholder fee of $120 but balked at waiving the $50 secondary card fee. I got stroppy and explained that I'd already paid CIBC for 2 cards and wasn't going to pay the secondary card fee. After some consultation with their back office, they agreed to credit another card I hold from TD with the $50 fee that will be charged to my wife's secondary card when it arrives. Why they have to do this is beyond me. Why not just give us the 2 cards with fees waived for the first year.

At least I'm not out the $50. :shock:

Will cancel the CIBC card when the 2 TD cards are in hand.

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Re: Aeroplan

Post by kcowan »

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You obviously qualified to remain a CIBC client because of other banking relationships, otherwise the switch to TD is automatic.
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Re: Aeroplan

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kcowan wrote:2yen
You obviously qualified to remain a CIBC client because of other banking relationships, otherwise the switch to TD is automatic.
Hi kcowan. Nope, no other CIBC accounts, just the card. What does automatic mean - especially since TD has more than one Aeroplan Visa? Also, I told the rep on the phone that all I have is the CIBC card.

Thanks.

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Re: Aeroplan

Post by SQRT »

We now have our TD cards and my assistant is going through the tedious process of changing automatic charge info from the CIBC card to the TD card. Once this is done we cut up the CIBC card. Easier to monitor the new TD card as we can see it on our Easy web page with TD.
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Re: Aeroplan

Post by tedster »

can you transfer aeroplan points from CIBC to TD?
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Re: Aeroplan

Post by adrian2 »

tedster wrote:can you transfer aeroplan points from CIBC to TD?
Aeroplan points do not belong to CIBC or TD, they are points in the Aeroplan program, in which you can participate with or without having a relationship with any of the two banks mentioned above.
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Re: Aeroplan

Post by kcowan »

2 yen wrote:
kcowan wrote:2yen
You obviously qualified to remain a CIBC client because of other banking relationships, otherwise the switch to TD is automatic.
Hi kcowan. Nope, no other CIBC accounts, just the card. What does automatic mean - especially since TD has more than one Aeroplan Visa? Also, I told the rep on the phone that all I have is the CIBC card.

Thanks.
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I am shocked that you did not receive a letter from TD welcoming you to their Aeroplan card. We did. We also got new CIBC Aeroplan cards since they expired in February. We are just waiting to get the TD cards and we are surprised that TD tried to charge you for their cards. Maybe they never considered that people like you would apply?
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Re: Aeroplan

Post by AltaRed »

Is there a reason why people are still sticking with credit cards with travel points like Aeroplan? Given the options available for 'cash back' cards, there is way more freedom just taking that cash back and shopping the internet for cheap fares. I will be totally relieved when I have gotten rid of my 'points' in the various frequent flyer plans I have, i.e. they feel to me more like boat anchors than anything else.
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Re: Aeroplan

Post by Bylo Selhi »

AltaRed wrote:Is there a reason why people are still sticking with credit cards with travel points like Aeroplan?
In my case just one: The TD AP Visa comes with 15,000 miles and no fees for the first year. Those 15,000 points can be redeemed for a $100 gift card at Exxon Canada, Home Hardware, et al. It's essentially free money. I have no intention of renewing the card after that year. Even after I get the TD AP card I'll continue using my TD Elite Visa (1% rebate) and Amazon Visa depending on the situation.
Given the options available for 'cash back' cards, there is way more freedom just taking that cash back and shopping the internet for cheap fares. I will be totally relieved when I have gotten rid of my 'points' in the various frequent flyer plans I have, i.e. they feel to me more like boat anchors than anything else.
That's what I've been doing too. However when those flights are on a Star Alliance partner I end up getting AP miles. Might as well accumulate those, if for no other reason than to convert them into gift cards. The 15k free will get me over the 25k free flight threshold so I could use them for that too.

For that matter I don't obsess about collecting miles/points on AP, AM, et al programs. In the few cases where I already have an appropriate card I'll use it. If I don't belong to the program e.g. SDM Optimum, I won't go out of my way to join.

Incidentally I don't have a CIBC AP Visa card. I ditched it years ago. I used EasyWeb's messaging system to ask if I could get the TD AP Visa with 15k points and first year fee waiver. They said yes and offered to call me back at my convenience to cement the deal. I gave them an available morning. They said they'd call. They didn't. Hmmm....
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Re: Aeroplan

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AltaRed wrote:Is there a reason why people are still sticking with credit cards with travel points like Aeroplan? Given the options available for 'cash back' cards, there is way more freedom just taking that cash back and shopping the internet for cheap fares. I will be totally relieved when I have gotten rid of my 'points' in the various frequent flyer plans I have, i.e. they feel to me more like boat anchors than anything else.
As we all know by now, Aeroplan and most other travel reward cards are poor value if you redeem your points for economy class travel - you can probably buy a ticket outright for less money than the fees. But there are some "sweet spots" in the reward structure if you value business class or first class travel for long haul trips that may provide a better payback than cash back cards.

Let's take a business class ticket from Vancouver to Rome as an example. You can book an Aeroplan ticket for 90k points plus the fees, which might be around $1000. The lowest cost business class fare for that trip is probably $6000+. Admittedly, few of us would pay $6K so that's probably not a true benchmark of the value of the award, but even a club seat on Air Transat is probably $2500+ and far less comfortable. For me, at 6'3" and 240 lbs, 12 hours in torture class is a stretch, so Aeroplan cards have value.

The other variable is how those points are accumulated. CIBC, now that much of their business has moved to TD just sent me a new Visa under the CIBC logo for 20K bonus Aeroplan points, no fee for the first year. American Express sent me 30K bonus Aeroplan points for an Amex Aeroplan Gold card with no fee for the first year. I'm writing this from a Best Western hotel in Portland as I'm doing a photography trip through the Columbia gorge - my Aeroplan bonuses for about 10 days of travel will be about 20K points. So I'm 80% towards next year's Europe trip in business class (this year's trip is already booked with Aeroplan and goes on from Rome to Bali and Cambodia and then home from Shanghai).

So to each his own, depending on how you value your travel dollar. For me, using "cash back" to fund international travel would be restrictive because there are no options for business class or first class intercontinental travel using cash back cards, but for travel within Canada or the US, the equation is different. I would not be able to do many of the trips I do without leveraging the Aeroplan points, but admittedly it takes a lot of flexibility and study to do so - half the fun is maximizing the system.
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Re: Aeroplan

Post by Bylo Selhi »

westinvest wrote:I would not be able to do many of the trips I do without leveraging the Aeroplan points, but admittedly it takes a lot of flexibility and study to do so - half the fun is maximizing the system.
It also takes a lot of spending on the AP card(s). When I ran a business I'd charge $10s of $1,000s a year and keep the miles for myself. I can't do that now. Also the 20k+30k bonuses are one-time only. CIBC used to offer cheques for use at establishments that didn't take CCs. Those paid up to 10k and were offered at least once a year. It was easy to "launder" them through my business. CIBC no longer offers those.

So yeah, if you're in a position to spend a lot of OPM you can accumulate enough miles to make the program worthwhile. I'm glad it works out for you. (And I can't begin to imagine what it's like to sit in 30" pitch seats when you're 6"+...) But for the rest of us who struggle to reach 60k miles, then have to pay as much as $1,000 to claim our "free" flight in steerage, it's just not such a great deal.
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Re: Aeroplan

Post by tedster »

westinvest wrote
. CIBC, now that much of their business has moved to TD just sent me a new Visa under the CIBC logo for 20K bonus Aeroplan points, no fee for the first year.
What card is that? It accumulates AP points? I currently have the CIBC Aerogold.
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Re: Aeroplan

Post by westinvest »

tedster wrote:westinvest wrote
. CIBC, now that much of their business has moved to TD just sent me a new Visa under the CIBC logo for 20K bonus Aeroplan points, no fee for the first year.
What card is that? It accumulates AP points? I currently have the CIBC Aerogold.
I had cancelled my Aerogold last year, figuring I'd see who had the better signup deal. CIBC is still offering Aerogold Visa cards to "new" susbcribers (even if you have been "sold" to TD). If your card stayed with CIBC you may not be able to apply for another CIBC one, but you could apply for a TD card - I think their offer was 15k signup, first year free.
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Re: Aeroplan

Post by westinvest »

Bylo Selhi wrote: But for the rest of us who struggle to reach 60k miles, then have to pay as much as $1,000 to claim our "free" flight in steerage, it's just not such a great deal.
My point was the 60K for economy is a lousy deal. Save up another 30K and you fly business class (you still pay the $1000 of course) and it's not as lousy.

My other point was that it's possible to build up your points by studying and using promotions and sign up bonuses far faster than just household spending on the card. If you are spending $20K a year and get 2% cash back that $400 isn't going to get you very far in travel either. I do not have business charges and OPM on my cards.
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Re: Aeroplan

Post by Bylo Selhi »

westinvest wrote:My point was the 60K for economy is a lousy deal. Save up another 30K and you fly business class (you still pay the $1000 of course) and it's not as lousy.
Yeah, I got that, um, "distiction" ;) I used to benefit from it too back in the day, when even better it was 80k for J vs. 60k for Y to fly to Europe. These days when the lowest fares give either no miles or 50% miles the struggle to get to 60k is even greater—[for me.] I've decided this is a treadmill I want to get off from.
My other point was that it's possible to build up your points by studying and using promotions and sign up bonuses far faster than just household spending on the card.
There's also a time-value cost in switching cards to get the latest promos.
If you are spending $20K a year and get 2% cash back that $400 isn't going to get you very far in travel either.

It's not. But it's a clean $400 annual discount on whatever you choose.

The problem with slowly accumulating miles until you have enough for a "free" trip is that the sponsors constantly devalue them. In addition there was AP's scam to get people to spend miles by expiring them. Yes they backed off from that but that was at the last minute after many/most people (including me) had already been intimidated into redeeming them under duress. Back in the day when miles were meant to reward loyalty the sponsors were loath to devalue lest they piss off their best customers. Nowadays they simply don't care. Essentially with miles and other gimmicks you're at the sponsors' mercy. But as always YMPMV.
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Re: Aeroplan

Post by biker »

westinvest wrote:[

Let's take a business class ticket from Vancouver to Rome as an example. You can book an Aeroplan ticket for 90k points plus the fees, which might be around $1000. The lowest cost business class fare for that trip is probably $6000+. Admittedly, few of us would pay $6K so that's probably not a true benchmark of the value of the award, but even a club seat on Air Transat is probably $2500+ and far less comfortable. For me, at 6'3" and 240 lbs, 12 hours in torture class is a stretch, so Aeroplan cards have value.
I'm with you.As a member of Aeroplan for 30 years I had earned nearly 1 million points by the time I had retired.Since most of my biz career I had travelled BIZ class and had no desire to change that . I have used most of my points for BIZ class for really long haul travel. Have enough left for a couple more trips which works for us since our desire for long haul is diminishing no matter what the seat looks like.
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Re: Aeroplan

Post by tedster »

Today I asked for the CIBC Aeroplan Infinite, free for 2000o points. When I get it I will cancel the aeroplan Gold. Thanks to westinvest and others. :0 :D
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Re: Aeroplan

Post by 2 yen »

TD Infinite Visa's 15000 mile sign up bonus can also be used for a 2 for 1 reward on short haul travel before the end of the year. I did the math with Air Canada fares compared to Aeroplan to a short haul destination in our part of Canada. Air Canada wants $880 for 2 tickets. Aeroplan (using the 15000 miles) wants $348 in fees for 2 tickets. Essentially, TD's offer is a 50% discount off the regular price. Aeroplan is fast losing any edge it had as a reward card. The fees are absolutely out to lunch. :x
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