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Peculiar_Investor
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Post by Peculiar_Investor » 19 Dec 2007 12:03

Bylo Selhi wrote:
Peculiar_Investor wrote:The problem that I have is that no one is actively warning people about the imminent sunset of the product
Evidently you never registered your software (in which case you would have got an e-mail from them almost a year ago) or check their website regularly for notices like
Of course I registered my software. By I cannot remember if it was my @home -> @rogers -> @shaw -> @mydomain e-mail address that I used 5 years ago. As I know the ins and outs of how Q02 operates, I've never had the need to revisit the Intuit website, particularly when each new release has added nothing that was important enough for me to consider upgrading. So I will accept partial responsibility for not being aware of the sunset. I'm still disappointed with my banks reaction on providing information.

As much as I don't look forward to upgrading, I guess it is finally time to move. I should be receiving Quicken XG 2007 in the mail any day this week.

[rant]

Is it just me, or are more and more companies using "blame the 3rd party" as a means to not deal with their customers. I'm getting a little tired of the following scenario. Bought a product/service from Company X. At some point something goes wrong, so call Company X. They claim the problem is with their 3rd party supplier and request that I deal with the supplier to get the problem resolved. As the customer of Company X, I don't really care whom they sourced things from, I bought the product/service from Company X and I'm expecting Company X to stand behind their product and support it.

[/rant]

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Post by Bylo Selhi » 19 Dec 2007 13:25

[rant]
Peculiar_Investor wrote:Is it just me, or are more and more companies using "blame the 3rd party" as a means to not deal with their customers. I'm getting a little tired of the following scenario. Bought a product/service from Company X. At some point something goes wrong, so call Company X. They claim the problem is with their 3rd party supplier and request that I deal with the supplier to get the problem resolved. As the customer of Company X, I don't really care whom they sourced things from, I bought the product/service from Company X and I'm expecting Company X to stand behind their product and support it.
On the same theme. I hate it when...

1. When the CSR says something like, "That's not something my department can deal with. Let me transfer you to [some other department]." Then, 10 to ~∞ minutes later, that CSR says and does the same thing. [Insert several more intermediate departments.] This then continues (seemingly) ad infinitum. The loop only gets broken when the customer finally gives up in frustration. For a more comprehensive description of this technique, look in the dictionary under Bell Canada.

2. On the rare occasions when they do accept responsibility for dealing with a problem, the CSR refers to it as "your problem." "No," I respond. "it's not my problem. It's yours. And you even just admitted to it." :twisted:
[/rant]
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Bylo Selhi
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Post by Bylo Selhi » 19 Dec 2007 13:44

FWIW I just found this letter that I snail-mailed to Intuit's founder back in 1999. Note the date. (Cook had just sold the business at the height of the Internet mania and no longer had operational responsibility.) For the record I never got so much as the courtesy of a reply — from him or anyone else at Intuit.
01Mar99

Mr. Scott D. Cook
Founder and Director
Intuit Inc.
2535 Garcia Avenue
Mountain View, CA 94043

"Our goal is not just customer satisfaction but to go beyond satisfaction and WOW our customers. Unwavering customer focus, that is exactly what we do at Intuit."

Dear Mr. Cook,

I've been a Quicken customer since before there was a Canadian edition. Last fall, before upgrading to Q99, I decided to do some "due diligence" on your Canadian support forum. Frankly, I was appalled by the lack of participation there by Intuit Customer Service staff and even more so by Intuit's arrogance in charging customers for product support -- including to report bugs in the product (a practice I understand you have thankfully not yet adopted in the US.)

Further, until late December, if I had actually installed Q99, the bank download feature that was working fine with Q98, would have stopped working altogether. Yet there was no warning of this in your package, in a README file, on your website or on the bank's website. Talk about trying to WOW your customers!

In early January I reluctantly purchased a copy of Q99 mostly on the strength of the new multi-currency support. After installing it I encountered many of the bugs that subsequent patches have now addressed. But even after installing all available patches let me assure you that there are still bugs and functional deficiencies. However I certainly will not pay $10 per call to report them to you!

I've been in the software business for some 30 years, the last dozen or so as a vendor. While I consider myself to be a sophisticated computer user, who with a lot of work was able to eventually make Q99 work, I feel for the majority of your customers who are less experienced in pursuing such adventures. One only needs to review the posts on your Canadian support forum to realise how badly your "customer focus" is "wavering."

I'm not aware of any other major software vendor that doesn't provide at least 30-days of free telephone support. A 30-day money-back guarantee with no opportunity for the vendor to intercede before the customer returns the product out of frustration strikes me as an absurd marketing decision. Likewise is the creation of a support forum on Intuit's website that is totally ignored by your customer service staff.

Mr. Cook, how could you let your company degenerate to this???

Sincerely,

Bylo Selhi
Buffett is right about investing in companies that have moats. In this case Intuit's proprietary file formats serve not only as a moat but also a sort of Hotel California where customers "can [write] check anytime you like, but you can never leave."
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Post by Peculiar_Investor » 19 Dec 2007 14:03

Migration Plan from Q02 to Quicken XG 2007. Comments please.

1) Visit Intuit Canada, Quicken page and download available updates. There appears to be 2 available, R2and R3. Is Quicken XG 2007 R3 the latest and greatest? Note: I know I can use One Step Update.

2) Backup Q02 data. Run File->Validate and address any errors, if found.

3) Backup Q02 data again.

Steps 4-end, to be known as Acceptance Test.

4) Install Q07 on separate computer. Apply updates.

5) Copy Q02 data over and attempt to load, expect a conversion will occur.

6) Validate data in Q07. To do this, I plan to run Net Worth report, Bank account balance report, Investment Portfolio Report, and Tax Schedule report. Results to be compared with reports from Q02.

7) Attempt download of transactions. Note, I've always done this by Login to banking website, then use their Download/Copy to Accounting software feature.

8) Spend some time learning new features, new interface.

9) (If necessary) Post problems to alt.c.s.financial.quicken and here to seek assistance.

10) Run both versions if parallel until end of January or until "Acceptance Test" is complete.

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Post by AltaRed » 19 Dec 2007 14:13

I think that covers it well. A few comments:

6. Not directly related, but you may find some of your 'specialized reports' that you may have on Q02 do not translate over well. In a number of instances, I had some of my slice and dice reports garbled (no big deal).

8. You may initially want to throw up at the gimmicky home page that appears upon start up. It is focused on 'cash flow' in/out on a monthly basis using all your "cash flow accounts" which is just a fancy name for the sum of your bank accounts. But you will learn to tolerate it.

Good luck

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Post by Bylo Selhi » 19 Dec 2007 15:24

Peculiar_Investor wrote:1) Visit Intuit Canada, Quicken page and download available updates. There appears to be 2 available, R2and R3. Is Quicken XG 2007 R3 the latest and greatest? Note: I know I can use One Step Update.
There's no need to download the updates or even use One Step Update. When it initializes, Q07 will automatically look for updates and ask if you want it to download/install them.
3) Backup Q02 data again.
There's no need to (or harm in) back up your data since (a) you're using separate PCs and (b) in any case Q07 will make backup/archive copies of your Q02 data before it attempts to the format conversion.
6) Validate data in Q07. To do this, I plan to run Net Worth report, Bank account balance report, Investment Portfolio Report, and Tax Schedule report. Results to be compared with reports from Q02.
Also you can compare Portfolio reports. In my case the bottom lines match to the cent. You could also do a line-by-line comparison just to be sure. I also ran some capital gains reports and in particular on US$ securities to ensure that FX information was converted correctly. (It was.)
7) Attempt download of transactions. Note, I've always done this by Login to banking website, then use their Download/Copy to Accounting software feature.
Because OLBB is broken with many banks you don't have any option ;)

Incidentally, I'm with TD and have several bank accounts that I track in Quicken. EasyWeb will download transactions for all accounts using the Download button at the bottom of its View Accounts page. However, once you do it (into either Q02 or Q07) TD apparently sets an internal flag to indicate that it's downloaded all new transactions. When you download on the other PC it reads that flag and refuses to download again. You now have to go into each of the accounts and download those transactions there. It's a pain, but hopefully it will end in January.

One more thing. Be sure to keep your copy of the Q02 CD. You may need it in the future to read any backups you made before you migrated to Q07.

And as AltaRed mentioned, you'll find lots of useless eye candy that's best ignored. If you poke around the various Preferences and Customize buttons you can turn off many of those annoyances. But here's one I haven't figured out.

In Q02 when in a register, I set the date on a transaction, say to 30Nov07, that date is remembered for subsequent transactions until I change it or leave that register. In Q07 the date resets to the current date after each transaction. This is annoying when you have a batch of transactions to update. Anyone know how to make Q07 behave like Q02?
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Post by AltaRed » 19 Dec 2007 15:48

Bylo Selhi wrote:
Peculiar_Investor wrote:1) Visit Intuit Canada, Quicken page and download available updates. There appears to be 2 available, R2and R3. Is Quicken XG 2007 R3 the latest and greatest? Note: I know I can use One Step Update.
There's no need to download the updates or even use One Step Update. When it initializes, Q07 will automatically look for updates and ask if you want it to download/install them.
True, should have mentioned that. Also worthwhile mentioning as well that future updates come by way of initiatilizing when you start Quicken (if you do not have that feature shut off) or they come via One Step Update.
3) Backup Q02 data again.
There's no need to (or harm in) back up your data since (a) you're using separate PCs and (b) in any case Q07 will make backup/archive copies of your Q02 data before it attempts to the format conversion.
But once he eliminates Q02 entirely on the first machine, I would keep a Q02 data set in a separate folder (from Program Files\Quicken) or on a CD just in case he has to uninstall Q07 and re-install it in the future. I wouldn't trust the Q02 archive in the Quicken folder long term.
In Q02 when in a register, I set the date on a transaction, say to 30Nov07, that date is remembered for subsequent transactions until I change it or leave that register. In Q07 the date resets to the current date after each transaction. This is annoying when you have a batch of transactions to update. Anyone know how to make Q07 behave like Q02?
I may not fully understand what you mean, but I find the date stays the same (doesn't reset) if when you are in the same Investment account, you use the Enter | New feature for entering each transaction rather than Enter | Done. If I am entering transactions in Bank accounts (which is done a bit differently than for Investment accounts, the date doesn't reset as I enter transactions.

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Post by Bylo Selhi » 19 Dec 2007 16:21

AltaRed wrote:But once he eliminates Q02 entirely on the first machine, I would keep a Q02 data set in a separate folder (from Program Files\Quicken) or on a CD just in case he has to uninstall Q07 and re-install it in the future. I wouldn't trust the Q02 archive in the Quicken folder long term.
My comment related only to the migration. I assume that everyone has backups of their Quicken files in multiple locations as well as at least annual archival copies just in case some disaster strikes.
use the Enter | New feature for entering each transaction rather than Enter | Done
Could you please expand on that. I don't see either option. I just hit the Enter key when I'm done filling out the details of a transaction. Where this is particularly annoying is with synthetic DRIPs because I do a DIV transaction to record the cash payment followed on the same date with a BUY transaction of shares. With TD, and I imagine others, those transactions don't show up online until as long as a month after their transaction dates so I have to change both the month and day.
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Post by AltaRed » 19 Dec 2007 16:51

Bylo Selhi wrote:Could you please expand on that. I don't see either option. I just hit the Enter key when I'm done filling out the details of a transaction.
When I select an Investment account, there are 3 tabs: Summary, Performance & Analysis, and Transactions.
* I select the Transactions tab and there are 2 options at the top of the tab: Enter Transactions and Set Up Download
* I select Enter Transactions and a dialog box pops up so you can enter the data. At the bottom right of that dialog box, you can either select Enter/New or Enter/Done when you are ready to record the transaction.
* Selecting Enter/New will cause the dialog box to pop back up with the same transaction date that you just used allowing you to continue entering transactions.

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Post by Bylo Selhi » 19 Dec 2007 17:02

Great! I was just typing data into the empty transaction at the bottom of the register. What you describe is much better and not only because it preserves (or not) the transaction date. Thanks.
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Post by AltaRed » 19 Dec 2007 17:06

Bylo Selhi wrote:Great! I was just typing data into the empty transaction at the bottom of the register. What you describe is much better and not only because it preserves (or not) the transaction date. Thanks.
No problem... Imagine that, me actually being able to help the guru... :wink:

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Post by Bylo Selhi » 19 Dec 2007 17:13

AltaRed wrote:Imagine that, me actually being able to help the guru... :wink:
You and others have done that many times in the past on many diverse topics.

Another lesson for me here is that this is one exception to my dismissive "useless eye candy that's best ignored" in Q07 :oops:

Maybe I should look around Q07 more closely in case there are more exceptions therein ;)
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Post by AltaRed » 19 Dec 2007 17:14

BTW, one other quirk in Quicken is the inability (on my part at least) to get Bank accounts included in the Asset Allocation report/graph (regardless of the vintage of Quicken). That is a PITA if one has a lot of money in a high interest savings account. The only way I could get around that is to re-configure my high interest savings account as an Investment account - one of those so called workarounds.

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Post by Bylo Selhi » 19 Dec 2007 17:27

AltaRed wrote:The only way I could get around that is to re-configure my high interest savings account as an Investment account - one of those so called workarounds.
I've done the same thing for the same reason.

Quicken's Asset Allocation reporting system doesn't do much for me because I have my wife's accounts in a different set of files from mine. To get a complete AA I export both sets of portfolios to CSV files, then import them into a spreadsheet and massage the data. It takes a few minutes to do that but then I have much more control on reports and graphs.
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Post by WishingWealth » 19 Dec 2007 18:15

'Maybe I should look around Q07 more closely in case there are more exceptions therein '

This is what I find more and more with software updates.
In the 'good ole days', a manual would come with the software ex. about a foot thick with DB IV and you would learn it.

With upgrades, you usually load up the software and go on with hardly a look at the help file. As far as documentation is concerned, a two page Quick Setup is a luxury.

And BTW, I can't even reach Q 07 help; it seems it can't connect either to the local help (if any) or to the web. :twisted:
What a f... waste of time. Should have stayed with the tried and true '98. :twisted: :twisted:

WW

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Post by Peculiar_Investor » 19 Dec 2007 18:49

WishingWealth wrote:'Maybe I should look around Q07 more closely in case there are more exceptions therein '

This is what I find more and more with software updates.
In the 'good ole days', a manual would come with the software ex. about a foot thick with DB IV and you would learn it.

With upgrades, you usually load up the software and go on with hardly a look at the help file. As far as documentation is concerned, a two page Quick Setup is a luxury.

And BTW, I can't even reach Q 07 help; it seems it can't connect either to the local help (if any) or to the web. :twisted:
What a f... waste of time. Should have stayed with the tried and true '98. :twisted: :twisted:

WW
I've been doing a bit of reading about Quicken 2007 at Support Resources, in particular the Getting Started with Quicken. I didn't find one that addresses people who have upgraded.

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Post by WishingWealth » 19 Dec 2007 20:10

Thanks peculiar, I had already downloaded the Getting Started - and it is exactly as the name says: Getting Started; nothing more.

I gotta check why it can't reach Intuit; not Xed in ZoneAlarm or other software...

I upgraded to '07 some months ago and IIRC, it did connect with Intuit at some point.

WW (did I mention :twisted: )

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Post by DIYCitizen » 23 Dec 2007 14:46

I currently use Quicken 2002 and have been successfully using the Quicken DDE protocol to read Quicken data from Excel. This used to be documented when Quicken first started out but Intuit has kept it undocumented and unknown since the 2nd or 3rd release (I believe). Does anyone know whether the current version still supports this protocol?

Next , does anyone know whether Quicken will suddenly stop working December 31st? If this is so, I will attempt to alter my Excel script to write stock quotes and bank transactions (perhaps) into Quicken before considering an upgrade.

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Post by AltaRed » 23 Dec 2007 15:14

DIYCitizen wrote:Next , does anyone know whether Quicken will suddenly stop working December 31st?
Q02 itself should continue to function, but downloads from institutions, etc. are not supposed to work.

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Post by Bylo Selhi » 23 Dec 2007 15:17

DIYCitizen wrote:does anyone know whether Quicken will suddenly stop working December 31st?
Intuit's claim is that downloads of stock/fund prices and bank/credit card transactions will stop working to Q02 after 31Dec07. The rest of the software should continue to work indefinitely.
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Post by Peculiar_Investor » 03 Jan 2008 08:43

Bylo Selhi wrote:
DIYCitizen wrote:does anyone know whether Quicken will suddenly stop working December 31st?
Intuit's claim is that downloads of stock/fund prices and bank/credit card transactions will stop working to Q02 after 31Dec07. The rest of the software should continue to work indefinitely.
Just to report that up to and including today, I've been able to download financial data from RBC to Quicken '02 without any problems.

I also finally received a copy of Quicken XG 2007 that I'm testing on another computer. So far so good, although it will take a while to get accustomed to the UI changes.

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Post by Bylo Selhi » 03 Jan 2008 09:19

Peculiar_Investor wrote:
Bylo Selhi wrote:
DIYCitizen wrote:does anyone know whether Quicken will suddenly stop working December 31st?
Intuit's claim is that downloads of stock/fund prices and bank/credit card transactions will stop working to Q02 after 31Dec07. The rest of the software should continue to work indefinitely.
Just to report that up to and including today, I've been able to download financial data from RBC to Quicken '02 without any problems.
Yup. Stock/fund prices, currencies and banking transactions continue to update just fine at TD/CT. I've been paralleling everything on Q02 and Q07 for nearly a month. My net worth balances on the two products continue to match to the penny.
I also finally received a copy of Quicken XG 2007 that I'm testing on another computer. So far so good, although it will take a while to get accustomed to the UI changes.
The Q07 bug where stock prices can be 10x the actuals continues to happen from time-to-time. Doing another Update a few moments later gets correct prices. Also foreign exchange values get updated at different times such that Q02 and Q07 show different rates during the day, but synch up again overnight. Both are annoying.

As for that @#$%ing Q07 UI, despite using it daily for almost a month now, I still much prefer Q02. It's not just familiarity, inertia, etc. It actually takes fewer keystrokes to do the same thing on Q02 than it does on Q07.
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Post by Bylo Selhi » 08 Jan 2008 22:10

Peculiar_Investor wrote:Based on reports I'm seeing, Quicken 2008 is not ready for prime time, up to R5 already, so I'm leaning towards Q07.
According to Intuit Canada there's only one update for Q08 which they call R2. The reports you saw apparently apply to the US version of Q08.

Anyone using the Canadian version of Q08 (called Quicken Home & Business 2008)?
Peculiar_Investor wrote:If my Q02 version will no longer download from my bank (RBC) after Dec 31, then I'm going to be in a hurry to purchase and evaluate... I've sent a message to the RBC online banking team to request clarification on versions supported. If anyone is interested, I'll post the reply when I receive it.
Any word from RBC? TD's EasyWeb still shows Q02 and up as supported.

So far Q02 continues to work for me as before. The same bug in which it occasionally gets into a loop while doing a stock/currency update still occurs but otherwise it's business as usual. I'm still paralleling transactions on Q02 and Q07. My net worths remain identical to the penny.
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Post by Peculiar_Investor » 08 Jan 2008 22:43

Bylo Selhi wrote:
Peculiar_Investor wrote:If my Q02 version will no longer download from my bank (RBC) after Dec 31, then I'm going to be in a hurry to purchase and evaluate... I've sent a message to the RBC online banking team to request clarification on versions supported. If anyone is interested, I'll post the reply when I receive it.
Any word from RBC? TD's EasyWeb still shows Q02 and up as supported.
As of today, I can still download from RBC to Q02. I've taken a don't ask/don't tell view with RBC.

I've got Q07 installed on another computer and have been doing a bit of evaluation, comparison with Q02. So far, so good.

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Post by Peculiar_Investor » 10 Jan 2008 06:49

Intuit finally got around to disabling downloading of transactions from RBC to Quicken 02. When I tried to download this morning, I got an alert from Intuit Canada that advised that I needed to upgraded to Quicken 2008 to maintain the service.

Guess that will hasten my migration to Quicken 07.

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