Help! TD mortgage issues

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bootsie
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Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by bootsie »

Hi,

Looking for a little help on some issues I'm having at TD currently. Our mortgages (house & cottage) are up for renewal (actually matured on Monday). I'm in limbo banking hell right now.

Three + months ago we secured a rate of 2.89% 5-yr fixed for both properties (each around $100k). The person I'm dealing with at TD is doing a horrible job. She's still "waiting on" discharge paperwork from RBC (which DH & I signed over 2 months ago). Now she says she's not sure she can keep this rate for me if it doesn't get settled this week. So I did most of the legwork & got RBC to fax the paperwork over to her last night (not my job, HERS). But anyway, long story...

I'm going to fight for the rate, and if I have to, will move my banking elsewhere. We have several accounts, RRSPs (e-index), Visas with them. Not buckets of money, but something. But as the TD rep was telling me about the possibility of losing the fixed rate, she said she could do HELOC's on both properties for shorter terms ("even better!", which makes me very skeptical). 2.69% 2 year. I'm not super excited about the idea of HELOCs instead of fixed rate mortgages but I feel a little green in this space, especially because I feel like they've been trying to get me out of this fixed rate ever since we signed up. I know rates have moved significantly since we locked in.

Any advice on the HELOCs or questions I should ask? Again, feeling a little overwhelmed during crunch time. I don't want to be taken advantage of & the delays were not in any way my fault so I thihnk I have a leg to stand on to keep my original rate.

I'd really appreciate any help you could provide.
Thanks!
Last edited by bootsie on 02 Oct 2013 10:18, edited 1 time in total.
bootsie
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by bootsie »

The posted rates I've seen for HELOCs are all prime + so I'm even more skeptical. :?
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by bootsie »

If the 2.69% HELOC is indeed available, any reasons I shouldn't take that over the 2.89% 5 year fixed, besides the obvious fact that rates will likley be higher in 2 years time?

Does it even seem feasible that I could get a 2.69% HELOC right now? My gut says no, so I've got questions for her clearly.
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by Mouly »

Going for the two year route would mean any rate at renewal time over about 3.1% will put you behind where you'd be if you just took the five year route.

I'd fight for the five year.
bootsie
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by bootsie »

Thanks so much for the reply Mouly. That's what my instict tells me too.

I can't believe what a pain this has been. In my initial meeting with the TD rep, she told me I was too early as they could only hold rates for 90 days. So I filled out all the necessary paperwork & had her input everything a week later, to secure the rate. The 90 days have come & gone as of Monday & it's still not complete. AND she's out of the office today apparently. :x
gsp_
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by gsp_ »

Don't know what a HELOC has to do with any of this, probably something lost in translation here.

Here are current Ontario mortgage rates. http://www.ratehub.ca/current-mortgage-rates-ontario

As you can see a 2 year fixed at 2.69% is readily available today with no prior rate hold. Your 2.89% 5 year fixed is 59 basis points better than anything available today. Fight till the death for the rate you held. :wink:
BRIAN5000
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by BRIAN5000 »

Now she says she's not sure she can keep this rate for me if it doesn't get settled this week
Move up the ladder if you get no results from her, any paper work that says 90 days? Saying you'll move won't help for everyone they lie or underserve they get one from the other big five that have done the same thing.


From "Mortgage FAQs" bottom right hand side
http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/products-s ... /index.jsp

Get simple answers to your questions.
You asked: RATE HOLD
We matched that to How long can a mortgage interest rate be held?
Mortgage rate commitment period
The mortgage rate commitment period available on new mortgages is generally 120 days from the date of application.


GENEARLLY AND NEW MORTGAGES?

This web page shows TD's rate hold to be 120 days. They may have changed to 90 (?) for their offer that you got, nice rate.

http://www.ratesupermarket.ca/mortgages ... path_from=
This information is believed to be from reliable sources but may include rumor and speculation. Accuracy is not guaranteed
bootsie
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by bootsie »

gsp_ wrote:Don't know what a HELOC has to do with any of this, probably something lost in translation here.

Here are current Ontario mortgage rates. http://www.ratehub.ca/current-mortgage-rates-ontario

As you can see a 2 year fixed at 2.69% is readily available today with no prior rate hold. Your 2.89% 5 year fixed is 59 basis points better than anything available today. Fight till the death for the rate you held. :wink:
Ahhh...good point about the 2 year fixed. Her idea was to switch the mortgages over to HELOC's. The rate she gave me for the HELOC was better than any HELOC posted rates I'd seen so I guess that threw me a bit. However, the truth is, I don't see any advantage to a HELOC over a fixed rate for us. I don't have any plans to make interest only (or even smaller) payments, nor do we have any plans to make substantially higher payments, or pay off the loans in the 2 years. I honestly don't know much about HELOCs but my guess is those are really the only advantages over a true mortgage. Am I missing something?

On the same link, I also found this:
however, HELOC rates are often higher than variable mortgage rates and the relationship to Prime can technically change anytime at the disrection of your lender. For example, a variable mortgage rate is often Prime +/- a number, like Prime – 0.35%. HELOC rates, however, are set at Prime + a number and your lender can technically change that number anytime
which tells me it wouldn't surprise me if that 2.69% changed to prime + soon after...
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by bootsie »

BRIAN5000 wrote:
Now she says she's not sure she can keep this rate for me if it doesn't get settled this week
Move up the ladder if you get no results from her, any paper work that says 90 days? Saying you'll move won't help for everyone they lie or underserve they get one from the other big five that have done the same thing.


From "Mortgage FAQs" bottom right hand side
http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/products-s ... /index.jsp

Get simple answers to your questions.
You asked: RATE HOLD
We matched that to How long can a mortgage interest rate be held?
Mortgage rate commitment period
The mortgage rate commitment period available on new mortgages is generally 120 days from the date of application.


GENEARLLY AND NEW MORTGAGES?

This web page shows TD's rate hold to be 120 days. They may have changed to 90 (?) for their offer that you got, nice rate.

http://www.ratesupermarket.ca/mortgages ... path_from=
I looked back at my emails & it is 120 days. She booked us in early June & said she'd hold the rate until Oct. 8th. She was out of the office all day yesterday & 1/2 day today (without any mention to me) so she's going to have to bust her ass to get this complete.
bootsie
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by bootsie »

I have another question that I'm looking for some help with:

The TD rep left me a voicemail message saying that she has worked out a way to get us our fixed rate of 2.89%. A 5-year fixed rate HELOC. She said she has more flexibility with HELOCs than standard 5-year mortgages. She also claimed it's a better product.

I still feel like I'm being duped but I'm not entirely sure why. If the rate is indeed fixed, and guaranteed, is there any reason why I should still feel hesitant in getting the HELOC instead of a standard mortgage? Can you still amortize over 10, 15, or 20 years with a HELOC? Is there any more information I should know / ask about?

I know I should be asking her these questions but I think she has messed up this deal so I don't entirely trust her at this point but I also think any other rep at TD is going to try to push me into another product as well.

My apologies, I'm a bit green in this area so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
HardWorker
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by HardWorker »

No need to appoligize. No one knows everything.

First off, I've never seen or heard of a fixed rate HELOC, but I'm not in the biz, so take that with a grain of salt.

Second, there are many pros and cons with HELOC, but the biggest is that they can call the loan at anytime, unlike a mortgage that you're keeping up with payments.

Here's a decent comparison between the two products. Depending on how much you still owe, I'd personally try to get the mortgage instead of HELOC if the amount is sizable.

http://www.canadianmortgagetrends.com/c ... gages.html
Chuck
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by Chuck »

HardWorker wrote:First off, I've never seen or heard of a fixed rate HELOC, but I'm not in the biz, so take that with a grain of salt.
Neither have I, but TD mentiones a fixed rate option for HELOCs right on their website, so they are obviously out there. What this option would cost you rate wise, is not clear.

I'm no expert, but I would think a HELOC has more advantages (flexibility anyway - wanted or not) than a fixed rate mortgage. Since there is no free lunch, I would expect this flexibility to cost a higher interest rate. Your TD rep appears to be offering you a free lunch in this case (possibly because they screwed up by not processing your mortgage paperwork in a timely manner).

I don't know why the TD rep claims to have more flexibility with HELOCs than mortgages, but who knows how banks do these things. If you are certain the fixed rate of the HELOC applies to the entire initial balance for the entire 5 year duration*, I see no harm in it.

*Per Hardworker, a HELOC is "technically callable" but I see no reason why a bank would ever do that if you are making your payments. Theoretically, they could use that as a loophole to get out of your low rate after a year or two, but that seems rather unscrupulous. Not something I would expect of a big 5 bank, but you might want to get assurances in this regard. In other words, read all the fine print on the "fixed rate option" for TD HELOCs.
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by Spudd »

I believe if it's a HELOC it's a collateral mortgage, which makes it harder to transfer to another lender.
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newguy
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by newguy »

I had a similar problem with TD a loong time ago and they said they had to change the type of mortgage but they kept the rate the same (a lower amount). I wound up getting the variable rate for a fixed term.

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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by AltaRed »

Chuck wrote:*Per Hardworker, a HELOC is "technically callable" but I see no reason why a bank would ever do that if you are making your payments. Theoretically, they could use that as a loophole to get out of your low rate after a year or two, but that seems rather unscrupulous. Not something I would expect of a big 5 bank, but you might want to get assurances in this regard. In other words, read all the fine print on the "fixed rate option" for TD HELOCs.
I wouldn't trust them for one minute not to call the HELOC. If the big guy wants to overrule the lowly mortgage officer at any time, they likely will.
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bootsie
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by bootsie »

Thanks all.

Given the issues I've had dealing with this particular rep, I decided to elevate my concerns. I 1st spoke with her manager who was not at all helpful & now I am currently dealing a Customer Relations Manager, hoping she will get this all squared away.

While the fixed rate portion of the HELOC may have been locked in at 2.89%, I just felt like I was being duped / coaxed into a product I didn't want because of her mistake. Thankfully, I have a pretty good email trail that I've forwarded to the CR Manager.

In the end, all I really want is the original 2.89% 5-yr fixed rate I was promised back in May / June. And hopefully soon, as RBC has converted me to an open mortgage at 4% while this gets sorted out. :(

As a PP pointed out, if the HELOC makes it harder to transfer to another lender, than I am certainly not interested. Though I've banked primarily with TD for most of my adult life, I've never been able to secure the best mortgage rates with them, besides this time. And look how this is turning out. :shock:
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by twa2w »

Just as an FYI, almost all mortgages, other than insured mortgages, are registered as collateral mortgages these days.

If the TD is doing a mortgage switch from the RBC, they will not be registering a new mortgage but using the RBC document and registering an amendment that allows them to use RBC mortgage as their security. They can do this if RBC registered a conventional mortgage.

The banks are doing collateral mortgages now to prevent this as 'switches' can only be done with conventional mortgages.
All HELOC, Homeline, Power- line and other 'all purpose' type mortgages that allow part or all of your mortgage to be a HELOC are registered as collateral mortgages. These cannot be switched - ie the new lender has to register a new mortgage on title with the applicable costs etc. This makes it harder to move from one institution to another.

But they give the homeowner and the lender much more flexibility in terms how the mortgage/LOCs are structured and re-advanced etc.

Cheers
J
bootsie
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by bootsie »

Thanks for the added info twa2w!

Would you believe I still haven't received a resolution? Even Customer Service is dragging their tail on this one. I'm taking this to the Ombudsman if I have to.

Is this really the bank Ranked "Highest in Customer Satisfaction among the Big Five retail banks 8 years in a row"? :x
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by BRIAN5000 »

Which level of management are you at?
This information is believed to be from reliable sources but may include rumor and speculation. Accuracy is not guaranteed
bootsie
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by bootsie »

It's been awhile, but just to update, I did finally get the two mortgages at 2.89% fixed (no HELOC) + the mortgage interest difference I was paying at my previous lender before the mortgages were transferred. It was SEVERAL extra hours of work on my part but eventually the deal was complete. Speaking with a Costumer Relations Manager in Toronto was what got the ball rolling but I'm still a bit soured by the whole process. I'm just really glad that most of the discussions with my local branch were via email. The CR Manager really didn't have any choice but to make sure my deals went through.

Again, just thought I'd update!
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Re: Help! TD mortgage issues

Post by twa2w »

Is this really the bank Ranked "Highest in Customer Satisfaction among the Big Five retail banks 8 years in a row"? :x
Really makes you wonder what the worst ranked one is like :D
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