TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
Quick read of the financials, earned 24 cents per share this quarter.
I checked the dividend for the quarter, it's 29 cents per share.
I think there' a conclusion that one should draw.
They are going to run out of cash pretty soon. Perhaps it's bankers will
call the CEO in for a spanking and a threat to cut the Lines of Credit or
other nasty things.
Jumping into bed with Warren may sound positive, but he looks after himself first.
The accountants and auditors will start to get nervous and make sure they can defend
every decision. That cuts future earnings. A couple of directors will resign and be replaced
with directors who hold the minimum number of shares for a six figure director fee.
Any bets when the dividend will be cut and the stock hits $ 10.
I checked the dividend for the quarter, it's 29 cents per share.
I think there' a conclusion that one should draw.
They are going to run out of cash pretty soon. Perhaps it's bankers will
call the CEO in for a spanking and a threat to cut the Lines of Credit or
other nasty things.
Jumping into bed with Warren may sound positive, but he looks after himself first.
The accountants and auditors will start to get nervous and make sure they can defend
every decision. That cuts future earnings. A couple of directors will resign and be replaced
with directors who hold the minimum number of shares for a six figure director fee.
Any bets when the dividend will be cut and the stock hits $ 10.
Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it's mistakes.
George Santayana
George Santayana
- Shakespeare
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Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
You have to look at cash flow, not earnings. Also, a lot of the dividend is DRIPped and not paid in cash.
Sic transit gloria mundi. Tuesday is usually worse. - Robert A. Heinlein, Starman Jones
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
A cathedral bell echoes... echoes...scomac wrote:I think the bell wrang about a month ago.adrian2 wrote:Up $0.49 to $15.71 -- Ding! Dong!
finiki, the Canadian financial wiki
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
Dripping may not require cash for dividends, but wouldn't the dilution affect share price in same way as a reduced dividend (reduced dividend yield either way). Apparently they have 70% participation in Drip program.Shakespeare wrote:You have to look at cash flow, not earnings. Also, a lot of the dividend is DRIPped and not paid in cash.
I have owned TA for 9 years. Luckily sold 1/2 when it at one time more than doubled. Right now it is back to what I paid in 2003. So I am not complaining and will hold on. Butcurrent financials are really not that encouraging.
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Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
Yes, the dripping is dilutive. But it gives them additional time.
If the IRR on that "cash" is greater than the dividend, it's a net positive.
The need for power in this province isn't going to go away and new plants, primarily NG or NG-cogen, are going to be needed to replace coal plants.
If the IRR on that "cash" is greater than the dividend, it's a net positive.
The need for power in this province isn't going to go away and new plants, primarily NG or NG-cogen, are going to be needed to replace coal plants.
Sic transit gloria mundi. Tuesday is usually worse. - Robert A. Heinlein, Starman Jones
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
No, the dividend yield is unaffected by dripping. Earnings yield is reduced, however.Springbok wrote:Dripping may not require cash for dividends, but wouldn't the dilution affect share price in same way as a reduced dividend (reduced dividend yield either way).
finiki, the Canadian financial wiki
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
- Shakespeare
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Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
The dripping gives the company additional cash at the dividend rate.
Sic transit gloria mundi. Tuesday is usually worse. - Robert A. Heinlein, Starman Jones
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
If the stock price goes down because of dilution, you are saying that the dividend yield does not change??adrian2 wrote:No, the dividend yield is unaffected by dripping. Earnings yield is reduced, however.Springbok wrote:Dripping may not require cash for dividends, but wouldn't the dilution affect share price in same way as a reduced dividend (reduced dividend yield either way).
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
That was not your assertion. Dilution means more shares are outstanding, it says nothing about the stock price. It's similar to a secondary offering, sometimes the stock price goes down thereafter, sometimes it go up (e.g., TA secondary offering at $15).Springbok wrote:If the stock price goes down because of dilution, you are saying that the dividend yield does not change??adrian2 wrote:No, the dividend yield is unaffected by dripping. Earnings yield is reduced, however.Springbok wrote:Dripping may not require cash for dividends, but wouldn't the dilution affect share price in same way as a reduced dividend (reduced dividend yield either way).
More shares outstanding = less earnings per share.
More shares outstanding = same dividend per share.
finiki, the Canadian financial wiki
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
I never made an assertion. I asked a question. If market knows what it is doing, same company value, but more shares outstanding should result in lower share price.adrian2 wrote: That was not your assertion. Dilution means more shares are outstanding, it says nothing about the stock price. It's similar to a secondary offering, sometimes the stock price goes down thereafter, sometimes it go up (e.g., TA secondary offering at $15).
More shares outstanding = less earnings per share.
More shares outstanding = same dividend per share.
Dividend yield goes up even although dividend per share stays the same initially.
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
Earlier you wrote: reduced dividend yield either way.Springbok wrote:Dividend yield goes up even although dividend per share stays the same initially.
finiki, the Canadian financial wiki
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
Not necessarily: if the company efficiently deploys the new capital, it's not the same company value.Springbok wrote:If market knows what it is doing, same company value, but more shares outstanding should result in lower share price.
DRIP = secondary offering for every dividend; it does not imply a lower share price.
finiki, the Canadian financial wiki
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
You never give up do youadrian2 wrote:Not necessarily: if the company efficiently deploys the new capital, it's not the same company value.Springbok wrote:If market knows what it is doing, same company value, but more shares outstanding should result in lower share price.
DRIP = secondary offering for every dividend; it does not imply a lower share price.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_dilution
Another link on dilution effect of drips, especially with companies that are not growing.Stock dilution is a general term that results from the issue of additional common shares by a company. This increase in the number of shares outstanding can result from a primary market offering (including an initial public offering), employees exercising stock options, or by conversion of convertible bonds, preferred shares or warrants into stock. This dilution can shift fundamental positions of the stock such as ownership percentage, voting control, earnings per share, or the value of individual shares. A broader definition specifies dilution as any event that reduces an investor's stock price below the initial purchase price.
http://www.pfhub.com/how-drip-dilution- ... portfolio/
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
I don't give up when reading an inaccurate statement, such as a DRIP affecting the share price in same way as a reduced dividend (reduced dividend yield either way).Springbok wrote:You never give up do you
A reduced dividend, all else being equal, results in a reduced dividend yield; so far so good.
A DRIP, all else being equal, results in a constant dividend yield.
A reduced dividend yield, with the dividend itself kept constant, means the share price has gone up.
finiki, the Canadian financial wiki
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
I don't usually either, but for you I will make an exception.adrian2 wrote: I don't give up when reading an inaccurate statement
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
I probably have four or five DRIP plans. I monitor them reasonably closely.
DRIPS are a great idea if the stock price is rising and you want to hold more of
the stock.
It sure sucks when my $ 200 dividend is used to purchase shares that are only
worth $ 150 a year later
.
I have some JNJ shares on a DRIP plan. Sure lost as the Cdn dollar appreciated
against the US dollar.
DRIPS are a great idea if the stock price is rising and you want to hold more of
the stock.
It sure sucks when my $ 200 dividend is used to purchase shares that are only
worth $ 150 a year later
.
I have some JNJ shares on a DRIP plan. Sure lost as the Cdn dollar appreciated
against the US dollar.
Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it's mistakes.
George Santayana
George Santayana
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
This article details quite small amounts of money - is there any profound meaning in this positive force majeure ruling?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/ ... ews&rpc=43
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/ ... ews&rpc=43
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
About a year ago, there were lots of speculations about how the extra few percentage points of dividend from TA will be treated, taxwise.
Well, I've double checked my T-slips from TDW and every penny paid by TA into my account has been reported as eligible dividends. Much ado about nothing...
Well, I've double checked my T-slips from TDW and every penny paid by TA into my account has been reported as eligible dividends. Much ado about nothing...
finiki, the Canadian financial wiki
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
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Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
Yeah, but at the time, and still today, TransAlta documentation on the subject is completely baffling.adrian2 wrote:About a year ago, there were lots of speculations about how the extra few percentage points of dividend from TA will be treated, taxwise.
Well, I've double checked my T-slips from TDW and every penny paid by TA into my account has been reported as eligible dividends. Much ado about nothing...
When I got my T slips I just shook my head that the premium had the simple tax characteristic of dividend and therefore is reported as such and has no effect to cost base.
I do remember you had lots of ideas on the subject at the time that I was completely confused by because I didn't see (and still don't understand) how the premium could be construed as ROC and certainly has no effect on cost base:
Bottom line, after recording the ROC extra premium:
- no resulting gain/loss (as required by CRA for a superficial loss)
- no extra dividend included in the yearly total
- cost base adjusted downward by the extra amount.
It appears the premium is simple dividend. No effect on cost base.
ltr
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
My speculation was about "what's the worst it can happen". Just enjoy that life proved to be simpler than that, as the whole payout has been T5-d as eligible dividends -- no need to stir the waters and split the payout into two or more components.like_to_retire wrote:When I got my T slips I just shook my head that the premium had the simple tax characteristic of dividend and therefore is reported as such and has no effect to cost base.
I do remember you had lots of ideas on the subject at the time that I was completely confused by because I didn't see (and still don't understand) how the premium could be construed as ROC and certainly has no effect on cost base:
Bottom line, after recording the ROC extra premium:
- no resulting gain/loss (as required by CRA for a superficial loss)
- no extra dividend included in the yearly total
- cost base adjusted downward by the extra amount.
It appears the premium is simple dividend. No effect on cost base.
finiki, the Canadian financial wiki
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
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Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
BMOIL reported it on their T5's as "other income".
Nothing can protect people who want to buy the Brooklyn Bridge.
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Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
And so it's just as confusing as it was from the start.Norbert Schlenker wrote:BMOIL reported it on their T5's as "other income".
ltr
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
As did RBC DINorbert Schlenker wrote:BMOIL reported it on their T5's as "other income".
1. On T5 slip, shows up in other information(see the back) type in as box 14. ADDED:(Therefore line 121, interest)
2. In the investment summary sheets, coded (7), as other income from Canadian sources
So not "T5'ed" as eligible dividends at RBC either.
It would appear that even the big banks cannot understand agree to the procedure for declaring the payout.
Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
In any case, it's extra money in your pocket, taxable in idiosynchratic forms, dependent on your broker. As long as your marginal tax rate is less than 100%, it's a good thing.
If you're so annoyed by the idea, just donate it to the forum!
If you're so annoyed by the idea, just donate it to the forum!
finiki, the Canadian financial wiki
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
- Shakespeare
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Re: TransAlta (Symbol-TA)
Down to $13.86.
Somebody must be expecting a dividend cut.
Somebody must be expecting a dividend cut.
Sic transit gloria mundi. Tuesday is usually worse. - Robert A. Heinlein, Starman Jones