Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by 2 yen » 15 Oct 2013 21:03

My understanding is that IPL will not notify the shareholder of receiving the election form. Only the CRA will inform once they have received the form countersigned by IPL. May be a good idea to wait until early November and follow up if no contact is received from the CRA. One wouldn't want a screw up with this as, for some shareholders, the tax implications would be large if the election form is not received / processed correctly by either IPL or the CRA.

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by Springbok » 15 Oct 2013 21:49

2yen wrote:My understanding is that IPL will not notify the shareholder of receiving the election form. Only the CRA will inform once they have received the form countersigned by IPL. May be a good idea to wait until early November and follow up if no contact is received from the CRA. One wouldn't want a screw up with this as, for some shareholders, the tax implications would be large if the election form is not received / processed correctly by either IPL or the CRA.
Highlighted sentence is incorrect!

If you have completed the election, you would have seen this sheet. I have marked the relevant section

Image

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by j831robert » 15 Oct 2013 21:52

2yen: Sorry, I've been away enriching the casino owners in Las Vegas. As mentioned, I have contracted for years with ACBTracking - particularly rewarding when income trusts were involved. They do all the calcs, I just send a list of dates purchases, quantity and price paid and they come back with, in my case, two reports, a two pager with columns covering Settlement/Record Date, Activity (Buy, Number of Units, Total Units Held, Net Purchase Settlement Amt, Net Disposition Settlement Proceeds, ACB, Capital Gain/Loss, Dist'n Per Unit, ROC Per Unit, ROC Amount Received and ACB Balance). The second last line reads: 22 Aug 2013, Distribution, 6500, 0.095, 0.8429, $547.89, $58,485.18. Then a Summary Page which lists all purchases with Settlement Dates Units and Settlement Amount. Dispositions indicating Settlement Date 01 Sep 13, Units 0, Settlement Amount. $0.00. Finally a statement about the unsold units reading Settlement Date 01 Sep 2013, Units 6,500 Inter Pipeline Fund, Settlement Amount $58,485.18, ACB per Unit $9.00.

All of the above for $8.50, but of course I buy a package of 10 computations for $85.00 - still has been well worth it IMHO and never a twitch from the tax people (probably because they are drowned in the fine detail). My report also picked up the fact that all of the returns in 2009 were 'phantom activities'. Not too late to sign on with them if you hold former Income Trusts which have now converted to tax paying entities such as Pembina Pipelines - I've had them calculate same to conversion date and hold the results in my tax file for eventual use on sale.

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by 2 yen » 16 Oct 2013 07:07

Hi Springbok. I didn't provide enough context above. When I called IPL for help with the election form, I was told that IPL would NOT be notifying shareholders when forms have been co-signed and forwarded to the CRA. I think you are probably correct and that I just ran into a misinformed employee of IPL.

Sorry for the confusion above - should have elaborated.

2yen
Last edited by 2 yen on 16 Oct 2013 07:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by Mouly » 19 Oct 2013 12:01

Does the conversion mean the end of the T5013 for IPL (well starting in 2014)?

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by Descartes » 20 Oct 2013 12:32

Mouly wrote:Does the conversion mean the end of the T5013 for IPL (well starting in 2014)?
Yes.
"A dividend is a dictate of management. A capital gain is a whim of the market."

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by Mouly » 21 Oct 2013 12:21

Descartes wrote:
Mouly wrote:Does the conversion mean the end of the T5013 for IPL (well starting in 2014)?
Yes.
That'll be good because UFile currently doesn't handle T5013s for dependants.

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by 2 yen » 28 Oct 2013 07:36

Anyone heard back from IPL re them having sent the CRA your conversion tax election info?

Nothing here yet.

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by Mouly » 28 Oct 2013 12:26

Was working on my father-in-law's election this weekend. He has buys and sells within a year so have to drill down to the month by month ROC to calculate his ACB on some sells.

Question: Which date should be used for a ROC when arranging buys, sells, and ROC chronologically? Is it the record date or payment date? I've done an initial calculation using record date. Of course the difference in going one way or another is pennies, but I might as well do it as correctly as possible.

I also noticed that for 2010 my FIL has a T5013 slip saying no ROC but the IPL website indicates an ROC of .6 cents a share for the year. I went with the tax slip.

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by j831robert » 28 Oct 2013 14:39

2Yen: Nada here yet and I'm waiting with bated breath. I am assuming that the 1 December deadline is a creature of IPL and if their processing office is, as I suspect, a living hell, so may have to be extended. Would be nice to have a submitted copy back by mid November though (as in early Christmas). :lol:

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by 2 yen » 28 Oct 2013 15:52

j831robert wrote:2Yen: Nada here yet and I'm waiting with bated breath. I am assuming that the 1 December deadline is a creature of IPL and if their processing office is, as I suspect, a living hell, so may have to be extended. Would be nice to have a submitted copy back by mid November though (as in early Christmas). :lol:
Plenty of other trusts have converted, but my fear is a screw up at IPL and then we have to fight the CRA for the contents of the election to be applied. Really hope I'm being paranoid - it is still October after all.

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by Mouly » 06 Nov 2013 12:33

OK, so you make the election, send it to IPL, and then they send to RevCan. What next?

Any impact on your 2013 tax return other than the fact that you now don't have to list a sale of IPL?

Do you just continue on till some point in the future when you do sell and at that point use as your ACB the value you reported to IPL? (Accounting of course for any adjustments due to further purchases). When you list the sale in some far off future year do you have to refer to the document you sent IPL?

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by Springbok » 06 Nov 2013 14:04

Mouly wrote:OK, so you make the election, send it to IPL, and then they send to RevCan. What next?

Any impact on your 2013 tax return other than the fact that you now don't have to list a sale of IPL?

Do you just continue on till some point in the future when you do sell and at that point use as your ACB the value you reported to IPL? (Accounting of course for any adjustments due to further purchases). When you list the sale in some far off future year do you have to refer to the document you sent IPL?
I would think you just handle the future sale as part of your CGain/loss calculation in the normal way. If you file on-line, I don't think any detail of the transactions get submitted. Only reason to have a record of the IPL election, would presumably be if you were audited.

If you let your broker know of the election, the 2013 trading summary should reflect the election values. BMOIL have already corrected my on-line cost for IPL (It is now the acb from my election)

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by schmuck » 06 Nov 2013 17:46

Getting a bit pissed off with the IPL gang.

Here's the problem.
Went through the online "Election Assistant" but all the info that was entered did not show up on the printed forms, and the jargon on the forms is a bit confusing to fill out manually.
Was told on phone that the info was not prepopulated on the forms because the format is not compatible with some Mac computers and Widows 8, and was given exact instructions on what to fill out manually and what to ignore.
Crammed all the letters and numbers into the tiny space provided on the forms and sent it off along with a spreadsheet of the ACB.

The whole bundle was returned today with a covering letter stating that the Tax Election Form was being returned for corrections as it was deemed incomplete, and to use the online "Election Assistant", without any hint of what was missing.

Got back on the phone and was told that the person who sent the stuff back with the letter may not have been aware that the format was not compatible with some computers, and that the previous phone instructions to complete the forms was incorrect.
Was told exactly what was missing, including stuff like the IPL business number which would have been automatically prepopulated on the form.
Was also cautioned that any other info however seemingly insignificant may be cause for repeated rejection.

Of about a dozen other conversions from income trusts to corps that I have previously participated in, I can't recall ever going through anything like this.

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by schmuck » 08 Nov 2013 19:56

Does anyone know why IPL was down sharply this morning (Nov. 8)?

Noticed that it coincided with an even bigger plunge in Canexus, and wondering if it might have anything to do with their arrangement to ship crude by rail out of Bruderheim, particularly after the derailment and explosion in Alabama this morning.

I was looking for an opportunity to buy Canexus after the Alberta derailment a few weeks ago but the stock did not appear to be affected by that.

Any suggestions of a news source that might explain the reason for sudden price changes in stocks would be much appreciated.

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by ig17 » 08 Nov 2013 20:05

schmuck wrote:Any suggestions of a news source that might explain the reason for sudden price changes in stocks would be much appreciated.
US jobs report this morning was much better than expected. This renewed the taper speculations. Bond yields jumped, utilities and REITs dropped. Most utilities were sharply down today.

XUT: -1.30%
ZUT: -2.12%

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by Descartes » 09 Nov 2013 10:21

schmuck wrote:Does anyone know why IPL was down sharply this morning (Nov. 8)?

Noticed that it coincided with an even bigger plunge in Canexus, and wondering if it might have anything to do with their arrangement to ship crude by rail out of Bruderheim, particularly after the derailment and explosion in Alabama this morning.

I was looking for an opportunity to buy Canexus after the Alberta derailment a few weeks ago but the stock did not appear to be affected by that.

Any suggestions of a news source that might explain the reason for sudden price changes in stocks would be much appreciated.
The Canexus plunge was independent, I believe. They reported the quarter yesterday and their market weakness woes continue with their payout ratio pushed up to 115% which of course scares off some retail income investors. The only real bright spot was that Bruderheim looks like it is completing soon and they expect it to be fully loaded with customers in 2014.

Interpipeline, I've noticed, goes through periodic massive sells and buys not directly attributable to news events. It seems very sensitive to the active portfolio management of big firms.

I've owned both for quite a while. I remain comfortable with Interpipeline ...and wary but patient with Canexus.
"A dividend is a dictate of management. A capital gain is a whim of the market."

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by DavidR » 09 Nov 2013 10:42

schmuck wrote:Of about a dozen other conversions from income trusts to corps that I have previously participated in, I can't recall ever going through anything like this.
That's because IPL was a Limited Partnership (annual T5013 form) rather than an income trust (annual T3 form).

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by schmuck » 09 Nov 2013 12:20

Descartes wrote: The Canexus plunge was independent, I believe. They reported the quarter yesterday and their market weakness woes continue with their payout ratio pushed up to 115% which of course scares off some retail income investors. The only real bright spot was that Bruderheim looks like it is completing soon and they expect it to be fully loaded with customers in 2014.

Interpipeline, I've noticed, goes through periodic massive sells and buys not directly attributable to news events. It seems very sensitive to the active portfolio management of big firms.

I've owned both for quite a while. I remain comfortable with Interpipeline ...and wary but patient with Canexus.

Thanks Descartes,

I sort of thought that the Bruderheim terminal was not a big enough component of Canexus to be affected that much by those derailments.

Have also noticed those strange periodic sharp but short drops in IPL for several years, and have occasionally gotten lucky with stink bids...not this time.

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by schmuck » 09 Nov 2013 12:53

DavidR wrote:
schmuck wrote:Of about a dozen other conversions from income trusts to corps that I have previously participated in, I can't recall ever going through anything like this.
That's because IPL was a Limited Partnership (annual T5013 form) rather than an income trust (annual T3 form).
Yes, I'm aware of that.
But can't understand why CRA would need to treat it differently as the bottom line as far as I can see is about tracking the ACB for deferred tax.

Anyway, happy to say that IPL has offered to resolve my computer problem with the "Election Assistant" by completing the forms at their end and returning them to me for signing.

My suggestion to anyone forced to fill out the forms manually is to attach an explanation.

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by 2 yen » 12 Nov 2013 09:11

Okay, it's been 5 weeks since I submitted the election paperwork. Time to give them a call to find out what's going on - haven't heard a thing. Wish me luck. :?

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by 2 yen » 13 Nov 2013 21:14

After leaving 2 voice mails in 36 hours, finally got a call back from the Helpline saying if I gave my name, address and SIN, they would call the appropriate section handling the Election and find out if it had been received from me. They called back about 4 hours later and said they had received it and understood why I wanted to know if it had been received (so I would not have a capital gains tax surprise in the spring).

BTW: The Helpline person who called me back sounded absolutely exhausted. I can see why.

So, that's that and I can rest easy knowing Canada Post did not mess up. I'll just wait for the email copy of the CRA approved Election.

2 yen.

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by j831robert » 14 Nov 2013 16:55

Thank you for the update 2 yen. Sort of supports my supposition of 'living hell' upthread.

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by 2 yen » 02 Dec 2013 14:45

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/inter-pip ... 00179.html

Tax election deadline has been extended to January 15th.

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Re: Inter Pipeline Ltd (Symbol-IPL) (formerly IPL.UN)

Post by j831robert » 02 Dec 2013 16:50

I toljaso ! Living Hell !

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