Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

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adrian2
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by adrian2 »

Shakespeare wrote:So I did two quick trades of MFC from 11 to 12, using energy to monitor the stock in the process. It's now over 13 so I could have made as much money with less stress by waiting.
For short term trading, I look at it like a buffet: you are not supposed to eat everything that's on the table. If your stomach is full, leave something on the table for the next guy. :)

But again, most of these types of trades for me are not replacing core long term positions; I use margin to get exposure and close it down with a reasonable profit. The terms of comparisons are not necessarily the core positions, but the alternative of not opening the position at all. Citing a Fleetwood Mac song "what you've had, and what you've lost".
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by deaddog »

Shakespeare wrote:So I did two quick trades of MFC from 11 to 12, using energy to monitor the stock in the process. It's now over 13 so I could have made as much money with less stress by waiting.

This is one reason I don't generally do short-term trading.
There is something to be said about a bird in the hand and a bush full of bird shit. :wink:
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by couponstrip »

Shakespeare wrote:So I did two quick trades of MFC from 11 to 12, using energy to monitor the stock in the process. It's now over 13 so I could have made as much money with less stress by waiting.

This is one reason I don't generally do short-term trading.
I stepped outside our completely passive portolio to invest (gamble?) in YLO, 100,000 shares @ 0.14. It looked oversold to use a trading term. I was delighted to see it move up a few days later and sold at 0.21 thinking I was quite smart until of course I look at the price today. :roll:

After this single trading effort, I am also going to resign from the trading desk. It's too hard on me.

Back to XIU, VTI, VEA. :wink:
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adrian2
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

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couponstrip wrote:I stepped outside our completely passive portolio to invest (gamble?) in YLO, 100,000 shares @ 0.14. It looked oversold to use a trading term. I was delighted to see it move up a few days later and sold at 0.21 thinking I was quite smart until of course I look at the price today. :roll:

After this single trading effort, I am also going to resign from the trading desk. It's too hard on me.
You've made $7,000; the guy(s) who bought from you made potentially more. Using my buffet analogy, isn't your belly full?
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by kcowan »

I always believe in leaving some money for the buyer. Something about pigs get slaughtered.
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by Taggart »

Reuters

TORONTO | Thu Nov 3, 2011 8:32am EDT

Manulife Financial loss narrows to C$1.28 bln
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by scomac »

The CEO is in the news today pumping his stock by means of complaining about how rigorous Canadian accounting standards are versus the US standard: "We'd be making billions if we could file in the US!"

LINK
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by Bylo Selhi »

"We'd be making billions if we could file in the US!"
Like AIG? :shock:
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by brad911 »

scomac wrote:The CEO is in the news today pumping his stock by means of complaining about how rigorous Canadian accounting standards are versus the US standard: "We'd be making billions if we could file in the US!"
I'm almost positive there are two types of CEO's in the world: politicians & leaders. It would seem the more & more I see of MFC's Guloien the more I place him in the category of politician rather than a leader.

IMO Steve Jobs was a leader.
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by Sensei »

Hi,

I'm reminded of Kevin Spacey in 7. If I might paraphrase, 'Only in a world this (expletive deleted) up can a 1.28 billion dollar loss be regarded as good.' Meanwhile, SLF, a better company in my view, is getting thrashed on its first quarterly loss in 6 quarters.
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by Taggart »

Sensei wrote:Hi,

I'm reminded of Kevin Spacey in 7. If I might paraphrase, 'Only in a world this (expletive deleted) up can a 1.28 billion dollar loss be regarded as good.' Meanwhile, SLF, a better company in my view, is getting thrashed on its first quarterly loss in 6 quarters.
Sensei:

I originally thought the same, that SLF was the better company, until I read the analyst quote above, who obviously thinks the opposite.

"That said, while it’s possible we are simply becoming numb to billion-dollar losses from Manulife, we view its earnings release more positively than Sun’s and believe that it should outperform in the near term.”

I've only one life insurer left now in my portfolio, and that's in the PWF conglomerate. Will be keeping a close eye on this one too, for the next little while at least.
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by Sensei »

Hi,

Believe me I'm keeping a close eye on SLF. Indeed, a few days ago I put in a sell at stop order of $22 and it darn near got there on Friday. I may be out by next week. I have been considering adding to my PWF position as an alternative, but again, do we know if they are immune to the problems afflicting MFC and SLF?? Keeping an eye on it is indeed a good idea. We'll know more after Monday which I believe is the reporting day.

That said, I see nothing attractive about owning MFC. I sold for a small profit after the dividend cut and still have no intention of returning. Underwriting credit default swaps seems like another poor plan. The only people who made money on CDSs were hedge fund managers like John Paulson who bought the insurance policies from a third party, but had no obligation to pay the insurance on bad MBS vehicles. As I understand it, MFC is assuming the responsibility of actually paying out the insurance claims should high interest bonds go into default. That is quite a different strategy and one with quite a bit higher risks than direct purchases of bonds to cover insurance claims.
Cheers

"A dividend being paid today is always a positive return." Josh Peters, Morningstar
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by JaydoubleU »

I have been considering adding to my PWF position as an alternative, but again, do we know if they are immune to the problems afflicting MFC and SLF?? Keeping an eye on it is indeed a good idea. We'll know more after Monday which I believe is the reporting day.
That is my strategy: avoid MFC and SLF, but turn on the DRIP for PWF to try and bring the ACB down. PWF is one financial that has really underperformed, but I think (hope) one day this will change. Exposure to PWF gives you a good measure of GWO, but also IGM and Pargesa. I am willing to accept a lower return in exchange for lower risk.
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by Taggart »

PWF must be hurting financially as well, otherwise I would think they would have raised their dividend by now. Hmmm, I thought the third quarter results for PWF would have been released by now, but it's not on their site.
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by StuBee »

PWF is extremely GWO sensitive. A while back, I visited the G&M site and graphed both GWO and PWF. They are almost identical! The IGM graph correlates far less with PWF. I doubt we will see any div increase from PWF until there is certainty in GWO or perhaps after another one (or two) div increases from IGM. I'm afraid that Pargesa will not be going anywhere for quite some time... Fortunately, Pargesa is (still) a relatively minor contributor to PWF.

PWF never reports before both of its major components have reported. GWO and IGM report on Nov 10.
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by Sensei »

Hi,

As I mentioned above, 'PWF's upcoming earnings will be reported today' as quoted from TDW. So, we'll hear something in the next 24 hours although I'm not sure I interpret that to be the real quarterly report or just a preview.
Cheers

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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by Descartes »

Shoring up that good old fortress of capital
TORONTO, Nov. 15, 2011 /PRNewswire/ - The Manufacturers Life Insurance Company ("MLI"), the Canadian insurance company subsidiary of Manulife Financial Corporation, announced today that it intends to issue $550 million principal amount 4.21 per cent of fixed/floating subordinated debentures due November 18, 2021 (the "Debentures"). Proceeds of the offering will be used for general corporate purposes.

The Debentures will bear interest at a fixed rate of 4.21 per cent for five years and thereafter at a rate of 2.65 per cent over the three month CDOR. The Debentures mature on November 18, 2021.
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by kcowan »

Does anyone else think 4.21% is a bit low for these guys?
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by DavidR »

Sheila Fraser has joined the board of directors of Manulife.
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by adrian2 »

Shakespeare, on Tue Sep 27, 2011, wrote:The 300 extra MFC I bought in my TFSA last week at $11.10 are now gone at $12.25. Tankyouberrymuch.

I don't normally do this kind of trade but noticed that MFC had just come up off a year low at $10.95.
Lather, rinse and repeat?
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by Shakespeare »

No, because I'm on vacation next week.
Sic transit gloria mundi. Tuesday is usually worse. - Robert A. Heinlein, Starman Jones
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by kcowan »

Shakespeare wrote:No, because I'm on vacation next week.
RU nearby? I am heading to Nuevo on Saturday.
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by Shakespeare »

Royal Decamaron. I'll check e-mail at the internet cafe if you want to get in touch.
Sic transit gloria mundi. Tuesday is usually worse. - Robert A. Heinlein, Starman Jones
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Re: Manulife (Symbol-MFC)

Post by Webber22 »

I've noticed that all the big U.S. players have loaded up recently on MFC, the usual clowns Morgan, Goldman and Citi. The usual modus operandi is to now issue a stock upgrade as it gets close to embarrassing all-time lows, then proceed to sell the stock as it rises - making money on both the transaction plus pricing. If it was anything other than Manulife I might buy :roll:
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