Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS ???

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Mikouli
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Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS ???

Post by Mikouli »

Hi, I'm new on this board.

I have ~250K with Disnat Classic , in the last years I was not very active on the market, but now I'm trading a lot more ( 5-10 trade a week).

For now most of my trades are in the US market, so I know I will have to transfer US fund to CDN Fund 3-4 times a years for living...

The exchange rate at Disnat is to high for me ~2%...

Also since they are VERY slow with paperwork, each time I want do something new I have to go trough the whole approval process, send paper by mail wait.... Wasting time, I told them I wanna be able to do anything at anytime (Short, naked put equity etc...)


The fees are Standard $9.95 for one transaction, and everything goes smooth, no surprise, website always up, easy to speak with someone on the phone, so aside the paperwork their Customer service is not bad. Customer representative know what they talk about and if they don't know they will tell you and they call back with the right answer.

But the Interface "Suck" all static chart delayed 15 minutes... no Level II at all...

With Disnat Direct I can have more, but I was thinking it was just a question to upgrade my account, but it's a TOTALLY different entity.... So the more I can have from them don't worth the hassle of transferring my whole account to them and being stuck 10 days without being able to trade.

All in all Disnat Classic and Direct offer me to little for what I need. So I want to change to another Discount broker that will be better for me now, and that will fulfill my need.

I look for:

1- Good Forex rates for US CDN especially

2- Being able to trade in pre-market and after-market hours

3- Having Level II and dynamic live stock charts for US and TSX exchange.

4- A trade platform that allow to put "Trailing Stop"

5- Receiving Alert by email and on screen for specific stock I watch with predetermined conditions.

6- Able to have TFSAs Account

7- Able to trade on US & Canadian equity and option.

8 - Being able to make a trade on the phone as a back-up, if my INTERNET goes down.

9- Hassle free transactions : No Questrade for me since I do a lot of transaction and don,t want spend my time chasing them on the phone or worst on chat...

10- Having the best bang for the buck...

I'd like to hear your experience with your broker and know your suggestion from what I say ? :?: :?: :?:

Feel free to ask me questions if something is not clear....

Regards
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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by newguy »

Mikouli wrote:I'd like to hear your experience with your broker and know your suggestion from what I say ? :?: :?: :?:
If you trade less than 1000 cdn or 2000 us shares at a time the best is IB except there is no TFSAs.

Exchange rate = $2.50 + 1/2 bps

Commish = $1 for CDN or 0.50¢ for US all in or less if you do the unbundled in some situations.

Options, futures etc in many countries.

TSX is $6/mo, Level II is extra per month.

All kinds of orders and alerts

Transfer to/from account with EFT and I think even bill payment now.

Never traded stocks pre-market or aft-hours but it must be possible. I have traded futures any time they're open.

Most of these questions are answered on their site.

Unless you trade a lot more than 2000 US listed stocks at once then IB will be way better than any bank. If you need TFSAs or RRSPs then it's not possible. If you do need those accounts TD will probably be the best especially if you trade enough to get the $6.99 trades and free platform.

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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by Mikouli »

newguy wrote:
Mikouli wrote:I'd like to hear your experience with your broker and know your suggestion from what I say ? :?: :?: :?:
If you trade less than 1000 cdn or 2000 us shares at a time the best is IB except there is no TFSAs.

Exchange rate = $2.50 + 1/2 bps

Commish = $1 for CDN or 0.50¢ for US all in or less if you do the unbundled in some situations.

Unless you trade a lot more than 2000 US listed stocks at once then IB will be way better than any bank. If you need TFSAs or RRSPs then it's not possible. If you do need those accounts TD will probably be the best especially if you trade enough to get the $6.99 trades and free platform.

Thanks for sharing your experience :)

Few day ago I've called IB Canada cause I needed to know if I can call them by phone to pass an order in case my Internet goes down.

They tell me the only order they accept by phone is to liquidate a complete position. So it's make me feel unsafe, if i'm in the middle of a day and need to buy or sell a stock there is noway...

So like Yesterday when ZNGA breakup 20% I need to buy quick and put a sell trailing stop right after the buy, there is no way to do it by phone :(

Or maybe the IB rep was wrong ? :?:

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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by newguy »

Mikouli wrote:Or maybe the IB rep was wrong ? :?:
Maybe but I think they know more than me. I've never placed a telephone order. I don't think the internet is that unreliable that you absolutely have to open a position with a greater than 99.8% reliability. That's not a consideration I would ever make for choosing a broker.

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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by Mikouli »

newguy wrote:
Mikouli wrote:Or maybe the IB rep was wrong ? :?:
Maybe but I think they know more than me. I've never placed a telephone order. I don't think the internet is that unreliable that you absolutely have to open a position with a greater than 99.8% reliability. That's not a consideration I would ever make for choosing a broker.

I'm always confident at 99% (and have a B plans if things don't roll on my side ) before I open my positions, let me explain my view about:

Since I "day trade" sometime, I can open a position at 10.30am on a news and right after buying I place a trailing stop for sell... BUT even if my trailing stop don't trigger I need to be able to close my position, I don't want to keep such position overnight and risk at the opening bell to loose my profit and even more on 50-80K trade.

But even with that concern I keep IB since the beginning of my research as a good broker, I read a lot of praise about IB that you confirm :)

What kind of trading do U do with IB ? Swing, long, day, or others ??? :?:

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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by newguy »

Mikouli wrote:BUT even if my trailing stop don't trigger I need to be able to close my position, I don't want to keep such position overnight
So you can put a trailing stop and a catastrophic stop a long ways away from the market in case your trailing stop doesn't work somehow or is a stop limit and then you can place a MOC (market on close) order and place them all in a OCA (one cancels all) group. As soon as one order gets executed the rest are cancelled. Anyway you said you're allowed to call and close positions so you could exit anyway.

If you're really worried about placing an order and then right away the internet breaks you can always use the parent-child type of order group, most familiar would be a bracket. You place an order to enter a position but don't transmit it. You then attach child orders like a stop for losses and a limit for profits. Then you transmit them all as a group.
What kind of trading do U do with IB ? Swing, long, day, or others ??? :?:
I've done everything, most often used to be scalping. That's too much work so I'm using the API try and develop an ATS (automated trading system).

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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by deaddog »

Mikouli wrote:
Since I "day trade" sometime, I can open a position at 10.30am on a news and right after buying I place a trailing stop for sell... BUT even if my trailing stop don't trigger I need to be able to close my position, I don't want to keep such position overnight and risk at the opening bell to loose my profit and even more on 50-80K trade.
Regards
With IB you can place an order to close a position at the close or any other time you specify.
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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by Mikouli »

Thanks for both replies,

With Disnat and others brokers I've used I had not so many choices of order type...

Even when I beginning called brokers this week to have answer at some specific questions I had before going further, some of the "customer service rep" don't even know about "automatic" trailing stop...

That's too much work so I'm using the API try and develop an ATS (automated trading system).
newguy
Used the API and make a custom interface is the best thing to do, if you have the time and abilities to program. What language do U use C++ :?:

After those answers I think seriously to invest some time to test drive the platform with IB... The only "negative" I read about it "It was not User friendly or logical".

What kind of learning curve to be used with IB platform vs Disnat or others platrforms like Disnat, since IB it seem less intuitive than others but a lot more Powerful :?:

BTW: I was not knowing "Scalping" but doing for research on the net, give me the answer... I understand why you use your own ATS ;-)
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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by newguy »

Mikouli wrote:Used the API and make a custom interface is the best thing to do, if you have the time and abilities to program. What language do U use C++ :?:
There are many options. You can use activeX and connect with VB, VBA, Delphi, C-anything. There are also socket implementations for Delphi, C, and Java is done natively through sockets and that's what TWS is written in. There is also DDE with Excel. I use Java most recently but that's just personal preference.

I'm not making a custom interface but writing programs to trade for me, the interface isn't used.
After those answers I think seriously to invest some time to test drive the platform with IB... The only "negative" I read about it "It was not User friendly or logical".

What kind of learning curve to be used with IB platform vs Disnat or others platrforms like Disnat, since IB it seem less intuitive than others but a lot more Powerful :?:
I think there all the same - it takes time to learn more advanced features. If other platforms don't offer them then it's obviously easier to learn them.

The manual
http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/so ... sguide.htm

Just one advanced order type
http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/so ... 57_Bracket

I just noticed there are 6 types of trailing orders so there is some reading to do.

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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by Mikouli »

I think there all the same - it takes time to learn more advanced features. If other platforms don't offer them then it's obviously easier to learn them.

The manual
http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/so ... sguide.htm

Just one advanced order type
http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/so ... 57_Bracket

I just noticed there are 6 types of trailing orders so there is some reading to do.
Hi, Thanks again for all the information.

I just take a quick look at TWS and there is a lot of options and preferences setting for orders :) The page you pointed for the advanced order have a link to video that made even more easy to understand.

I like also the the fact that IB seem to update their softwares regularly, they seem to develop themselv the software instead of buying an OEM software and put a skin over the front end.
There is also a beta area to test the beta release.

Some questions since you are with IB, do you use the Browser version or Standalone ? and why ? :?: (I use to trade here 3 monitors plus a laptop as backup and to pass order) also I just buy a tablet (playbook) to be able to take a look when i'm outside.

Can I have up to 12 "live" dynamics charts spread across my 3 monitors ? :?:

I've seen that IB offer 2 platforms: TWS (the advanced like they said) and WebTrader ( html client) from what I see even the Webtrader offer more options than Disnat platform...

Like you said more option = bigger learning curve.. but when you master the platform you can save a lot of time and maximizing your profit.

I like also the fact that I can use Java to connect with IB software... learning Java is on my to do list ( lot of software API allow to use java) :)

Will let you know my decision if I go with IB as soon as I know myself (IB seem to be the best for MY need as of now)


Thanks again and have a good week-end :)

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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by newguy »

Mikouli wrote:Some questions since you are with IB, do you use the Browser version or Standalone ? and why ? :?:
Standalone because it gives me control over which version I use. I don't like to always update my software unless I need some new functionality. Very often they introduce more bugs than they fix in each new version. Many users wish they would make it bug free before they add new features, in fact that was one of the most popular "feature requests".
Can I have up to 12 "live" dynamics charts spread across my 3 monitors ? :?:
It probably depends on the speed of your computer. You can subscribe to 100 ticker symbols and they will update quotes no problem but the charts are resource hogs. I think there is a 3 DOM limit as well.
I've seen that IB offer 2 platforms: TWS (the advanced like they said) and WebTrader ( html client) from what I see even the Webtrader offer more options than Disnat platform...
I thinks it's identical to TWS but it's started over the web.

newguy

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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by Mikouli »

Hi,

I have a TFSA so this year I wil add $5K to a total of ~21K, I have no REER or RRSPs and don't think I will have...

So if I decide to go with IB, I understand they don't have registered account, and I don't want pay fees $100-200 to have my TFSA in a "big bank".

I was thinking to transfer the only my TFSA from Disnat to Questrade since I think there is no fees for TFSA account if I understand well.

And the rest to IB. What do you think of that's strategy ? :?: Maybe there is better thing to do that I'm not aware ? :?:

And thanks :thumbsup: for your link Newguy, I've read most of the threads , I don't understand all but more things become clear with your help :)

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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

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Mikouli wrote:So if I decide to go with IB, I understand they don't have registered account, and I don't want pay fees $100-200 to have my TFSA in a "big bank".
From TDWH pg 7
TFSA No fee
http://www.tdwaterhouse.ca/apply/forms/521778.pdf

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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by AltaRed »

Scotia iTrade does not either, so the OP's comment is too generalized. RBC DI's fee is $20/Q unless over $10k and there are other conditions for waiver of fees as well.
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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by gsp_ »

I would think TFSA maintenance fees wouldn't be much of a concern as pointed out above but ~$30 commissions would be for someone who seems to trade quite a bit.
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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

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gsp_ wrote:I would think TFSA maintenance fees wouldn't be much of a concern as pointed out above but ~$30 commissions would be for someone who seems to trade quite a bit.
At the Op's $250k portfolio, that would qualify for <$10 trades at any of the big banks. That said, I cannot identify with traders anyway. I can identify with perhaps 5-10 trades a year :wink:
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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by Mikouli »

Thanks for your answers.

I've read many thread about the two pricing structures from Interactive Brokers: Flat Rate and Cost Plus
http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/p.php?f=commission

They seem to have lot of confusion about understanding which one is the most profitable, when and why ?

I understand that I can change at any time during the day but the new structure price will apply only at the next cut-off time (Usually 4pm ET)

Could someone help me to understand "in real life" the difference (Since with Disnat Classic I don't have to deal with ECN Fess) ?

Here some kind of trades I do :

On Nasdaq or NYSE:

With Disnat the price is always (In and out) 9.95 in the currency of the stock.

Buy 10 X $600 with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"
Sell 10 X $645 with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"

Buy 200 X $390 with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"
Sell 200 x $412 with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"

Buy 2700 x 1.80 with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"
Sell 2700 x 2.50 with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"

Buy 2000 x 4.75 with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"
Sell 2000 X 7.10 with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"

Buy 1600 x 3.76 with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"
Sell 1600 x 4.45 with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"

Buy 240 x 24.97 with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"
Sell 240 x 26.75 with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"

Buy 400 x 12.00 with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"
Sell 400 x 16.60 with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"

On TSX:

1/3 of my trades are between $5.01 and $30.00 for between 5K-15K with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"
2/3 of my trades are between $1 and $5.00 for between 2K-10K with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"

-=-=-
NB: Sometime in a hurry (on US mkt and TSX) I can sell at market or buy at market price, but 90% of my trade are limit order or Trailing Stop
-=-=-

This way you can see a "trading pattern"...

Form what you see, which of the two pricing structures from Interactive Brokers: Flat Rate or Cost Plus should have more advantages to me ? why ? and when it's better to switch to the other structure ?

Also if I trade in pre-market or after market it is the same that apply ?

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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

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Mikouli wrote:Form what you see, which of the two pricing structures from Interactive Brokers: Flat Rate or Cost Plus should have more advantages to me ? why ? and when it's better to switch to the other structure ?
IB gives examples here.
http://individuals.interactivebrokers.c ... entity=llc

A limit order* is adding liquidity but a trail stop or any kind of stop even if it has a limit will be removing liquidity.
2/3 of my trades are between $1 and $5.00 for between 2K-10K with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"
If you're talking about 2k-10k shares then TD will be cheaper.

newguy

*but not at the market, ie. buy limit at the ask isn't adding liquidity
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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by Mikouli »

2/3 of my trades are between $1 and $5.00 for between 2K-10K with "limit order" or "Trailing Stop"
If you're talking about 2k-10k shares then TD will be cheaper.
I was not clear, I apologize, will try to make it clearer... :

70 % of the time I trade equity on US market ---> My trade size are most of the the time between $5000 and $10,000 for "swing trading", The value (range) of the each equity is between $1.80 and $25.00 usually. ---> Also I do some bigger trade before earning with "solid stock" like AAPL GOOG GE for those the size of the trade can be up to $50-75K .


30 % of the time that rest it is on the Canadian market ---> So on CDN Market I buy most of the time again between $5000 and $10,000 equity that are valued between $1.50 and $5.00 each share.


With previous broker I did not see the ECN fees, they were hided in the $9.95 per trade fee.

But also over the lower price per trade I value too the tools, "Trading platform" free data" lower exchange rate" being able to trade in the FULL extended hours... At latest APPL earning I lost $2K cause there was nobody to take my order in the after market, I was willing to pay the hefty fee of $50 for one trade since my profit was $2K more...

And when I trade many stock at the same time I use Trailing Stop to maximize my profit on buy and sell...

I found this link: http://spydercrusher.com/tools-of-the-t ... e-brokers/ I understand a little bit better...

From what I see there is a lot of tools that are available and for sure I will use more tools and develop new strategy over the time if those tool are available...

I learn a lot by myself... The first trade I've done were with a broker with fees of $150-$250 and I was "happy" at this time, and have no regret, I was not knowing that I can trade by myself in the easy way of today with computers and multiple types of orders... I'm like a kid in a candy shop ;-)

I try to figure what will be the best VALUE for me including all variables ???? (I don't want to change of broker over and over and each time have 2 weeks waiting for the transfer, learn a new system...

From what I read I only see praise about IB ...

BTW: Do you aware if IB for account over 200K pay the closing (transfer) fees to have an account ?

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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

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Mikouli wrote:BTW: Do you aware if IB for account over 200K pay the closing (transfer) fees to have an account ?
I wasn't aware of any non registered account closing fees anywhere but I doubt IB would pay them.

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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by gsp_ »

AltaRed wrote:
gsp_ wrote:I would think TFSA maintenance fees wouldn't be much of a concern as pointed out above but ~$30 commissions would be for someone who seems to trade quite a bit.
At the Op's $250k portfolio, that would qualify for <$10 trades at any of the big banks. That said, I cannot identify with traders anyway. I can identify with perhaps 5-10 trades a year :wink:
Yabbut he's not planning to transfer the 250k to a bank, only the 21k TFSA. The rest goes to IB.
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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by Mikouli »

Hi NewGuy,

I have some questions especially for you (but anyboby fell free to contribute).

Since you it's along time you are with TD and IB, I'd like to hear your point of view and advices...

I will do swing trading and day Trading mostly on US exchange and TSX (equity).

What will be your choice as main broker for Swing and day trading between IB and TD ?

I know from what I learn on the forums, the data feed form IB are not wonderful at least for charting , TD seem to have a better data feed.

Many guys seem to use IB with NinJaTrader or others Softwares for charting and passing orders. And they choose another data vendors.

If I go with IB which setup should be good for Swing trading and day trading (Chartings Software with IB API and Data providers) ???

I take a look too TD as I can qualify for their "Active Trader Plus Platforms" with Equities $7.00 flat and Options +$1.25.

Also I can have the data feed including:
• TSX Level 1
• TSX Market-by-Price
• TSX Market-by-Order
• TSXV Level 1
• TSXV Market-by-Price
• TSXV Market-by-Order
• MX Level 1 (CDN Options)
• MX Level 2 (CDN Options)
• AMEX
• NYSE
• Nasdaq
• Nasdaq Level 2
• OPRA (US Options)

And charting in ActiveTrading platform seem good too. Maybe less than NT and an Extra data feed but better than IB only ?

With TD I meet the requirement to have all monthly fee waived... and maybe others Banking advantages and Time savers.

With both I can trade in pre after market, trade in Europe... IB have a better exchange rate...

So with your experience and point of view which one give "better bang for the buck" ?

If it is IB Could you tell me about Charting softwares and data suppliers ?

I value your advices.

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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

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Mikouli wrote:I know from what I learn on the forums, the data feed form IB are not wonderful at least for charting , TD seem to have a better data feed.
I don't think that's true. The data feed from IB is sampled, it means they send an update ~5 times/second per symbol if needed. This means you don't get every tick but the feed never lags the market.
Many guys seem to use IB with NinJaTrader or others Softwares for charting and passing orders. And they choose another data vendors.
That's true for having a backup feed and also to get every tick, but good ones are expensive.
If I go with IB which setup should be good for Swing trading and day trading (Chartings Software with IB API and Data providers) ???
Sorry I was meaning to see how many charts I could open without slowing down my computer, tomorrow. I don't use TD's active trader as I only have registered accounts there and I rarely trade them.
I take a look too TD as I can qualify for their "Active Trader Plus Platforms" with Equities $7.00 flat and Options +$1.25.
You get pretty much the same thing with IB but TD's commissions may be lower if you trade 1000-2000 shares on average. TD is one of the few big banks that don't charge exchange fees IIRC.
With both I can trade in pre after market, trade in Europe... IB have a better exchange rate...
Well europe has much higher commissions at TD. The exchange rate shouldn't matter at TD as your account is non-registered and it will have a US and CDN side and you don't have to keep exchanging money. You may want to look at interest rates for margin and whether or not TD will let USD be used as margin for a CDN daytrade. For example at IB if I only have USD in my account and then buy and sell a Canadian stock in the same day it doesn't cost me any margin interest and they don't exchange money. They just lend me the money for the day. If you hold a position overnight then you will be charged interest if you don't exchange some money but this is less at IB than TD.

I noticed that TD active trader offers trailing stops so that shouldn't matter. I don't think there is that much difference if you just trade stocks, how well you trade will be the big difference. I know you can run TWS demo software at IB, I'm not sure what kind of trial you can get from TD.

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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by deaddog »

If you are swing trading why do you fell you need up to the minute data?
"And the days that I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, well, I have really good days" RW Hubbard
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Mikouli
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Re: Want transfer from Disnat to Other Broker: SUGGESTIONS

Post by Mikouli »

Sorry I was meaning to see how many charts I could open without slowing down my computer, tomorrow. I don't use TD's active trader as I only have registered accounts there and I rarely trade them.
I appreciate if you can try tomorrow with the td active trader they said: Level II Stock Box 5 simultaneou - Streaming Technical Charts 8 simultaneous

With TWS how many windows do you use at the same time ? Do you have given a try at NinjaTrader or others IB compatible charting softwares ?

I understand that you trade more forex than equity , maybe one day I will try but will learn before ;-)

how well you trade will be the big difference.
You're dam right on this one... Looking at many forums seeing peoples talking years over years about softwares, brokers... many peoples seem to take most of there time to looking for something instead of trading !

Even now, I know that at some extent I realize that I'm over-analyzing to find the best ever "set-up" that will fulfill all my needs instead of moving...

Right now just with the disnat classic 9.95/trade , no tools AT all from disnat, using freestock.com chart, yahoo finance some java applets for level II that I 'have made a DIY poor trading WorkStastion on a local HTML/java page track 6 stocks Levekl2 and charting, others financial web sites and forums. Up to now since September I'm able to generate between 5%-10% net monthly and I enjoy.
My goal is to generate $25K-50K in a year and I will do it !

I buy things I know and most of the time I'm fine, but sometime I'm wrong like cco.to (fukuyama) or alu (europe crash Ouch) but that's part of the "game".

Thanks again for your advices !
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Best Regards
Mikouli
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