Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

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FinEcon
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

Post by FinEcon »

Thegipper wrote: 16 Feb 2018 14:08 Classic WB purchase. According to Fortune magazine it is the world's number one brand. It trades a 12 times earnings, has amazing fcf , has a big pot of billions of cash and it has a dominate market position. It may be a tech stock but it's one he can understand.
Is WB on the record with this or are you inferring it from timing and sizing (i.e. growth) of the position. In the beginning, IIRC as it must be a couple of years ago, he explicitly said it was either or both Todd and Ted and not himself buying Apple.
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

Post by Thegipper »

i am inferring it based on WB and CM track record and investment strategies. They are big believers in moat protection and powerful brands gives a company strong moats. Another aspect they like a very high ROE and ROC. Apple is outstanding in both categories. WB reluctance to invest in tech is his ability to understand the technology and the business. In the case of Apple it's not complex.
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

Post by Thegipper »

WB would have no problem understanding a consistent profit margin of 29%, a ROE of 30 and a ROE of 35 . Those are amazing metrics especially for a giant corporation.
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

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Yet they originally picked IBM (a dying company) a few years back instead of Apple who's numbers haven't really changed much in years.
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

Post by nisser »

Apple doesn't really have a moat. Google introduced a new phone in the last few years that's gaining market share.
They're a one trick pony and it's just a matter of time before revenue plateaus and starts dipping. There's a ton of Chinese iphone knockoffs and if they start expanding globally, the margins and market share will shrink.
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

Post by Just a Guy »

One trick pony...

Personal computers
Tablets
Phones
Music
Tv/movies
Software
Software distribution

All of which bring in more money than most of their competition. And they've had the same margins for their entire existence.

Even their "failures"
Watch
Apple TV
Homepod
Etc.

Usually wind up selling more than their competitors (Apple sells more watches than swatch). Which means, if they weren't so big, these would be considered successful independent companies. Of course, when you make nearly 200B in profits each year, making multimillions on a division still looks like failure. Maybe you'd prefer "better than expected losses" from your companies.

As for the google phone, when you start with nothing, of course you gain market share. In this market however, Apple gets the majority of the profits, even though it doesn't have the market share dominance.

Unless you believe in "sell at a loss and make it up in volume" (which doesn't work if you lose money on every product), Apple isn't going anywhere soon.
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

Post by SkaSka »

If one looks through the long history of this thread, it becomes obvious many have not and continue not to understand Apple.

Yes, they rely heavily on the iPhone as the driver of revenue and profits, however, I can assure you it is not a one trick pony.

The iPhone is a trojan horse that sucks you into the Apple ecosystem.

Once you have an iPhone, why not get a MacBook, an iMac, an iPad, iTunes, all the apps on your devices, an Apple Watch, photos all easily accessible and categorized through the Photos app, etc?

The iPhone effectively brings you into the system to buy more hardware and services provided by Apple, which perpetuates the stickiness of staying with Apple. That makes it hard to leave the Apple system once you have committed thousands upon thousands of dollars. It's kind of akin to Microsoft and businesses: once you've spent so much on IT spend on the Microsoft ecosystem, it becomes difficult to leave for a different platform for your IT needs in terms of monetary and psychological reasons.

Just because one is not in the Apple ecosystem shouldn't blind them to the fact that many, many people are, and will continue to be long into the future.
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

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SkaSka wrote: 18 Feb 2018 13:58Yes, they rely heavily on the iPhone as the driver of revenue and profits, however, I can assure you it is not a one trick pony.

The iPhone is a trojan horse that sucks you into the Apple ecosystem.
For us,it was the iPad for DW. Then an iPhone 4S replaced DWs Motorola Startac flip phone (bought used for $100). I had a Samsung Android. Then DW bought an iPhone 5 from a friend. And I got her 4S. Then she wanted the 8 Plus for the camera. I sold the 5 to a friend. Then she wanted the newest iPad.

Then I replaced the batteries on the 4S and old iPad.

We are hooked because everything is automatic (unlike Windows and Android). I hear that Android is catching up but do not know of anyone who has switched that used the full potential of the Apple system.
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

Post by rharvey199 »

kcowan wrote: 18 Feb 2018 15:39 For us,it was the iPad for DW. Then an iPhone 4S replaced DWs Motorola Startac flip phone (bought used for $100). I had a Samsung Android. Then DW bought an iPhone 5 from a friend. And I got her 4S. Then she wanted the 8 Plus for the camera. I sold the 5 to a friend. Then she wanted the newest iPad.

Then I replaced the batteries on the 4S and old iPad.

We are hooked because everything is automatic (unlike Windows and Android). I hear that Android is catching up but do not know of anyone who has switched that used the full potential of the Apple system.
same. wife is graphic designer so 2 macs, wife and kid won ipads, we each have an iPhone, give old ones to our kids for text only phones, 2 apple tv's. now it's iTunes, apps, etc. i own apple shares, just wish i had backed up the truck in 2008 when they were $96 pre split (i think that's like the equivalent of $13/share now :x )
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

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We have moved to Windows/Android for everything. Couldn't stand the proprietary nature of Apple. Just like Beta VCR, etc. If it is not essentially Open Source, I won't have it.
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

Post by Wallace »

kcowan wrote: 18 Feb 2018 15:39 We are hooked because everything is automatic
That's the key. A six year old child can switch on an apple product and work it because it is completely intuitive. And it connects to everything else. Without fuss or problems.
The negative side is that if something doesn't work with Apple, it's almost impossible to make it work. It's far harder to get down to the OS level and tweak things. I still have three standalone computers in the house from Windows Vista to Windows 10 that I like to dabble with, but most of my work today is done on my iMac laptop, and it's easy. It's like driving an automatic car rather than driving a stick-shift. Considering that half the people in the world have an IQ less than 100, the simpler the OS, the more likely it is to be universally-used.
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

Post by Thegipper »

AltaRed wrote: 19 Feb 2018 16:47 We have moved to Windows/Android for everything. Couldn't stand the proprietary nature of Apple. Just like Beta VCR, etc. If it is not essentially Open Source, I won't have it.
Understand your point. One is Microsoft and they didn't understand keep it simple. Google did and they might be better then Apple at this level. Be leery of Amazon they want to control everything their way 100%.
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

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Google has done a pretty good job of synchronization between devices but it is not perfect nor always seamless, something Apple has done better. But the Google discussion is not relevant here. I do agree with posts up thread that Apple makes syncing between devices seamless and most apps integrate well between each other (as between spouse's old iPhone and her old iPad).
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

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AltaRed wrote: 19 Feb 2018 16:47 We have moved to Windows/Android for everything. Couldn't stand the proprietary nature of Apple. Just like Beta VCR, etc. If it is not essentially Open Source, I won't have it.
Windows open source? Are you on the pirate sites, otherwise I think you need to rethink that comment.
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

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Just a Guy wrote: 20 Feb 2018 01:29 Windows open source? Are you on the pirate sites, otherwise I think you need to rethink that comment.
That is why I said 'essentially open source' because Windows is not Open Source but there is a lot more development applications permitted with Windows. There is a tradeoff sometimes when one application conflicts with another but it gets sorted out. Google permits Android to be modified by each manufacturer, e.g. Samsung vs LG vs XX.

I got really pissed off at Apple restricting things like Adobe Flash Player. I was really pissed off at them early on when they only permitted FaceTime, but relented when they finally permitted Skype. I was also pissed off having to be restricted to Safari which is a useless browser in my opinion. I became happier when I could use Chrome, but it still doesn't function as well on iOS as it does Windows.

Bottom line: I don't like software companies telling me what applications I can have and not have on my device.
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

Post by pmj »

Continuing this (slightly) OT discussion - there's a browser called Puffin https://www.puffinbrowser.com/ that, amongst other interesting features, allows access to Flash Player sites on iPads & Android devices. And it's fast! For example, when re-opening FWF, I don't have to refresh the page like I do in Safari or other browsers. It processes web pages remotely, so that most of the work is done by its server, not by your device:
Puffin is a remote browser. The real browser is running on our servers, which is located in San Jose, California, U.S and Singapore. Once our server renders a webpage, it sends the results to Puffin client app, and the app displays the result in a certain sequence.
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

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The thing about ingrained biases is that they can never be worked out on forums. My good friend is a 'died-in-the-wool" Android bigot. He will not use Samsung or Google versions but insists on a "pure" version with independent hardware. He insists on vendor independence. Samsung and Google work against that according to him.

(Last year he lost his phone and had to use his wife's. A year later, his wife does not have the full function phone she had before and cannot be called. He says he is too busy to recreate it!)

We have become an Apple family with 2 exceptions: my oldest son who has a Windoze laptop, and me with the same. I just finished a set of upgrades and running CrapCleaner to make it work well again. Meanwhile my wife is oblivious to such work. I have to grab my iPad to Facetime my grandchildren.

(Meanwhile our 2100 AAPL shares carry an ACB of US$10.9 and are a long-term hold in our taxable account.)
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

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kcowan wrote: 20 Feb 2018 14:35 (Meanwhile our 2100 AAPL shares carry an ACB of US$10.9 and are a long-term hold in our taxable account.)
Have we colonized Mars later this century, Mr. Time Traveler? :P
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

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AltaRed wrote: 20 Feb 2018 10:59
Just a Guy wrote: 20 Feb 2018 01:29 Windows open source? Are you on the pirate sites, otherwise I think you need to rethink that comment.
That is why I said 'essentially open source' because Windows is not Open Source but there is a lot more development applications permitted with Windows. There is a tradeoff sometimes when one application conflicts with another but it gets sorted out. Google permits Android to be modified by each manufacturer, e.g. Samsung vs LG vs XX.

I got really pissed off at Apple restricting things like Adobe Flash Player. I was really pissed off at them early on when they only permitted FaceTime, but relented when they finally permitted Skype. I was also pissed off having to be restricted to Safari which is a useless browser in my opinion. I became happier when I could use Chrome, but it still doesn't function as well on iOS as it does Windows.

Bottom line: I don't like software companies telling me what applications I can have and not have on my device.
Flash was a buggy security nightmare. Apple just took the lead which everyone followed and now flash is rightfully dead. Windows crashes so often it's almost unusable in certain situations because it doesn't crack down on bad software. Windows itself is a buggy security nightmare...even with weekly patches.

You may not like the restrictions Apple places on your life, but there's a reason they can claim "it just works".

Now, for the power user, it can be a little frustrating, but the average user is far from a power user, and there are far more of them in this world who don't want to worry about viruses, driver conflicts, dlls and other stuff. They just want to be able to type letters, surf the internet and share cat videos on Facebook.

As for google allowing manufacturers to modify android, you may want to take a look at their more modern policies. They've become a lot more restrictive since their original policy meant people never got updates because manufacturers wouldn't spend the time to modify the code for older products.

Again, not saying android is bad, just things have changed over the years and may not be the same as you think they are...
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

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adrian2 wrote: 20 Feb 2018 15:12
kcowan wrote: 20 Feb 2018 14:35(Meanwhile our 2100 AAPL shares carry an ACB of US$10.9 and are a long-term hold in our taxable account.)
Have we colonized Mars later this century, Mr. Time Traveler? :P
Ha ha. Many splits ago, I sold them all at $72 and repurchased half at $52. I wanted to crystalize the gains and reduce my exposure. Yea I reduced my exposure all right!
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

Post by Just a Guy »

Interesting article showing how Apple stacks up in the tech industry...

http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-stil ... y-results/
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

Post by kcowan »

Berkshire has increased their holdings by 75 million to become the third largest shareholder with 240 million shares. That seems to be fueling the price spike.

https://9to5mac.com/2018/05/04/warren-b ... pl-shares/
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

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Again, his history with tech companies isn't the same as it was with consumer staples. I read he just sold out of all his ibm holdings. I'm sure he probably made some money with it, but not his usual return.

Of course, I can't fault him buying apple (though I think it's late in the game to make the real money). A 100B share buyback and 16% dividend increase is nothing to sniff at.
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

Post by AltaRed »

But it fits Warren's investing style. Companies that reward their shareholders (dividends and share buybacks) rather than blowing their brains out re-investing their cash into silly stuff that has low (to no) return. IOW, Warren thinks he is a better investor than the companies he owns... Hence he wants to be paid so that HE can re-invest the proceeds.

One of the same reasons investors fall over themselves to own dividend stocks. We think we are better at managing/re-investing the cash than do corporate managements re-investing retained earnings. If we didn't, we'd prefer non-dividend paying stocks where management re-invests instead for capital appreciation.
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Re: Apple Corp (Symbol-AAPL)

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I doubt warren is playing an active role in the investments these days, but I agree it fits the strategy. Warren was never a fan of tech companies.
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