But..but....then how could I outperform?index- it's a lot easier.
[By far the majority of investors don't understand the rationale for indexing - and, given the massive amounts of money the industry spends on marketing, they never will.]
But..but....then how could I outperform?index- it's a lot easier.
Mike, I just went to Sedar and looked up BMO Dividend Fund, which is one that I own. I read through the Simplified Prospectus and the Interim Financial Statements.yielder wrote:But I want it to be eeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssyyyyyyyyyyyy. Why do you all want me to phone fund companies? Why do you all want me to poke around in Sedar? What is all this stuff?
http://www.financialwisdomforum.org/for ... 953#134953Jo Anne wrote:Mike, I just went to Sedar and looked up BMO Dividend Fund, which is one that I own. I read through the Simplified Prospectus and the Interim Financial Statements.yielder wrote:But I want it to be eeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssyyyyyyyyyyyy. Why do you all want me to phone fund companies? Why do you all want me to poke around in Sedar? What is all this stuff?
I couldn't find a TER in either of these reports. Where is it located?
Go to the source: The Management Report of Fund Performance list for BMO Mutual Funds, and choose BMO Dividend Fund from the pull-down menu entitled "Semi-Annual Management Report of Fund Performance (March 31, 2006)".Jo Anne wrote:BMO Dividend Fund ... the Simplified Prospectus and the Interim Financial Statements.
I couldn't find a TER in either of these reports. Where is it located?
Mike, I didn't want to know what the TER was. I wanted to know how to easily locate it.yielder wrote:http://www.financialwisdomforum.org/for ... 953#134953Jo Anne wrote: I couldn't find a TER in either of these reports. Where is it located?
I went to the source - bmo.com - and wandered through the various links and options available. It took a while, but I finally found the link you referenced above. I hate to think how long it would have taken if I hadn't know what I was looking for.YogiBear wrote: Go to the source: The Management Report of Fund Performance list for BMO Mutual Funds, and choose BMO Dividend Fund from the pull-down menu entitled "Semi-Annual Management Report of Fund Performance (March 31, 2006)".
Look on page 3 of the resulting pdf document under "Ratios and Supplemental Data": for the 6 months ending March 31, 2006, the TER was (annualized) 0.04%.
As a general rule, I find it is quicker to get any documents I need from fund company websites rather than Sedar, so long as I know what I am looking for (I am not a BMO unitholder, yet I found the relevant document in less than a minute).
Well we'll have to agree to disagree. You have all of the tools you need to figure out your fund costs.Money101 wrote:Norm:
You are evidently a fund buyer who doesn't know what they are buying. You are unwilling to read the available fund documentation or phone the fund company to get your questions answered. If you had an advisor then you could simply ask them.
NormR, you keep avoiding the issue - Disclosure should be better.
I have read documentation I am aware of and to the best of my ability. I even had to call my company months ago to get my MERS.
I'm sorry to say, but if you think that it is difficult then you probably shouldn't be a DIY investor. Lord help you if you start buying stocks.Money101 wrote: NormR:
I've led you to the water, you do not want to drink. The information you want is easily available and would likely take less time to compile than you've already spent on this thread alone.
No you have not.
It shouldn't be this difficult to learn about my costs and what they are. It is NOT easily available and easy to understand.
Ok then, you don't seem to understand them. Again, just ask for help in interpretation and many will lend a hand in the effort.Money101 wrote: Those who read highly technical academic articles in finance get a condescending tone when they are apparently unwilling to read basic fund documents concerning their own investments.
Wrong again. You are assuming that I am unwilling and have not read my basic fund documents.
Technically, he has the tools to find the costs of the fund he's invested in, but not his costs as he may or may not have been in for the whole year. But given a percentage, one could work out an estimate of the costs.NormR wrote:Well we'll have to agree to disagree. You have all of the tools you need to figure out your fund costs.
That'd be nice and I expect that the data guys to add it in over time. A combined MER and TER figure would also make sorting easier.Dennis wrote:Is it possible that what we really want here is for Morningstar and the newspapers to start listing the TER (like they do the MER) so that easy comparisons between funds may be made?
Hair splitting, you also don't know in advance what the costs will be over the next year (or fraction thereof). Those zany managers often trade at different rates each year. Go figure.saylavbda wrote:Technically, he has the tools to find the costs of the fund he's invested in, but not his costs as he may or may not have been in for the whole year. But given a percentage, one could work out an estimate of the costs.NormR wrote:Well we'll have to agree to disagree. You have all of the tools you need to figure out your fund costs.
Hmmm... I would have thought that for you that would be a trivial exercise; a line or two of code at the most. Careful that you don't come across as a whinerNormR wrote:A combined MER and TER figure would also make sorting easier.
Yup. Which is yet another reason why the usual data providers should be reporting TERs and why the fundcos/dealers should be reporting the actual dollar costs of MERs and TERs on customer account statements.NormR wrote:Hair splitting, you also don't know in advance what the costs will be over the next year (or fraction thereof). Those zany managers often trade at different rates each year. Go figure.
What's this easier nonsense? Now you're starting to sound like me. Next thing, you'll be saying that CI, Hancock, Royce are investor friendly, BMO, BNS & RBC are sort of friendly, TDAM doesn't know the word friendly and IGM is a mind boggling . Between A, B, C, DSC, NL, TC no wonder you buy IGM products through an IGM salesman.NormR wrote:That'd be nice and I expect that the data guys to add it in over time. A combined MER and TER figure would also make sorting easier.
I've written my code. So, sorting is no problem for meBylo Selhi wrote:Hmmm... I would have thought that for you that would be a trivial exercise; a line or two of code at the most. Careful that you don't come across as a whinerNormR wrote:A combined MER and TER figure would also make sorting easier.
All for an extra 10 bp to please non-fund investors ... the feature for the next issue will be "funds cost too much in Canada".Bylo Selhi wrote:Yup. Which is yet another reason why the usual data providers should be reporting TERs and why the fundcos/dealers should be reporting the actual dollar costs of MERs and TERs on customer account statements.NormR wrote:Hair splitting, you also don't know in advance what the costs will be over the next year (or fraction thereof). Those zany managers often trade at different rates each year. Go figure.
Where's that conflict of interest disclosure. Doing a little pumping?yielder wrote:What's this easier nonsense? Now you're starting to sound like me. Next thing, you'll be saying that CI, Hancock, Royce are investor friendly, BMO, BNS & RBC are sort of friendly, TDAM doesn't know the word friendly and IGM is a mind boggling . Between A, B, C, DSC, NL, TC no wonder you buy IGM products through an IGM salesman.NormR wrote:That'd be nice and I expect that the data guys to add it in over time. A combined MER and TER figure would also make sorting easier.
Speaking of investor friendly, isn't that good business especially in a highly, highly competitive business where marketing is as important as performance.
Yes, it would be considered good business.yielder wrote: Speaking of investor friendly, isn't that good business especially in a highly, highly competitive business where marketing is as important as performance.
I'm not your portfolio manager, nor your advisor. Ask them. If you are dissatisfied with the service provided then swap funds/advisors. Just expect to pay extra for the added level of attention that you're likely to demand.Money101 wrote:NormR:
Well we'll have to agree to disagree. You have all of the tools you need to figure out your fund costs.
If you have a genuine question about how to find or interpret such costs, I'm sure that you'll have it answered on this forum.
I shouldn't have to "figure out" or "interpret" costs - they should be indicated and disclosed to me clearly in the my statements.
AGAIN -WHY NOT REPORT THEM, ALONG WITH MY RATES OF RETURNS, UNIT PURCHASES ETC?
We'll agree to disagree and you not answering my question.
Ask your advisor. If you don't get a good answer, get a new advisor. Read the latest issue of MoneySense for a good article on looking for an advisor. I'd link to it but it has yet to appear online.Money101 wrote: NormR
I'm sorry to say, but if you think that it is difficult then you probably shouldn't be a DIY investor. Lord help you if you start buying stocks.
That's why I am trying to learn about all the hidden costs due to poor disclosure. I am investing through a FA/salesman currently.
Good that you use a FA- and if your attitude to tax filing is the same as it is to investing, I hope that you use H&R Block for your income tax return as well.Money101 wrote:That's why I am trying to learn about all the hidden costs due to poor disclosure. I am investing through a FA/salesman currently. [emphasis added]NormR wrote:I'm sorry to say, but if you think that it is difficult then you probably shouldn't be a DIY investor. Lord help you if you start buying stocks.