Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

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George$
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by George$ »

Click here to view the 2013 Fairfax Annual Meeting Slide Presentation. Presented by Prem Watsa.

And here his 2012 annual letter

In addition to interesting information on Fairfax - he also showed later slides on world status - I found very interesting -
eg
Slide 27 showing US debt as about 360% of its GDP
Slide 28 showing Japan's current debt at 650% of its GDP. - meaning that its total operating budget would only serve this debt if interest went back up to what it once was.

Question - slide 10 - am I correct that it says Fairfax lost $1 billion on its bet that the equity market would go down big time? Norm - you must understand this better than me.
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by parvus »

Thanks George$.
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by zinfit »

It has never been on my investment list. After reading his letter I have put FFH on my list. The high amount of cash is a concern. Does Berkshire keep large amounts of cash on the sidelines?
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by ig17 »

zinfit wrote:Does Berkshire keep large amounts of cash on the sidelines?
Berkshire Cash Hits Record $49.1 Billion as Profit Climbs
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-0 ... ments.html
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by kcowan »

George$ wrote:Question - slide 10 - am I correct that it says Fairfax lost $1 billion on its bet that the equity market would go down big time? Norm - you must understand this better than me.
That is the way I read it. Hedges are expensive when the market goes against them. They will not look smart until there is a correction.

(BTW thanks for the post. Very interesting read. Pretty good results considering that both the market and the insurance business has been going against them.)
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by newguy »

kcowan wrote:Hedges are expensive when the market goes against them.
In theory they should be neutral no matter what happens. That's what hedge means. If they lost a billion on a hedge they should have made a billion (or had a billion less in expense) somewhere else.

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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by FinEcon »

To be clear, Fairfax is not neutral, their position is anti-fragile. Just like they were in 2008. You won't glean much from FFH on this board as there are probably only a handful of us who have any interest or position in FFH. If you need to know anything or have specific questions, check out Corner of Berkshire and Fairfax and read all of the Fairfax sub-forum.
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by George$ »

FinEcon wrote:To be clear, Fairfax is not neutral, their position is anti-fragile. Just like they were in 2008. You won't glean much from FFH on this board as there are probably only a handful of us who have any interest or position in FFH. If you need to know anything or have specific questions, check out Corner of Berkshire and Fairfax and read all of the Fairfax sub-forum.
Thanks FinEcon - :( I must now do more homework.

What is "anti-fragile"? No idea here. Never read about it. From the web I get the following -
You shouldn’t worry about black-swan events, says Nassim Taleb. You should worry about an investment’s vulnerability to those events – in other words, its fragility.

The author of The Black Swan has a new book, Antifragile: Things That Gain from Disorder, due out this fall. The premise? “Some things love randomness and volatility,” Taleb told last night’s event hosted by the Alternative Investment Management Association in Toronto. For instance, bones benefit from greater stress; otherwise they lose density.

As the book’s prologue says, “Anti-fragility is beyond resilience or robustness: the resilient resists shocks and stays the same; the anti-fragile gets better.”

The key for portfolio managers is to find anti-fragile investments, and avoid fragile ones.
And to add -- a new webside I need to read for the first time - :(
check out Corner of Berkshire and Fairfax and read all of the Fairfax sub-forum

Again thanks! :)
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by FinEcon »

George$, my apologies. In a nutshell, FFH will not only survive a 'severe market event' they will be a large beneficiary. There are many threads with this discussed in great detail on Corner of B&F, I would definitely check them out time permitted as you are an FFH holder. I do because I am as well.
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by George$ »

Just saw that April 9, 2014 is the Fairfax AGM at the Roy Thomson Hall in Toronto.

I hope to go. Is anyone else?

Last two years I have seen Norm there - plus Francis Chou.

FFH is at $478 today
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by NormR »

George$ wrote:I hope to go. Is anyone else?
Yup, see you there
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by parvus »

Do you need to be a shareholder?
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George$
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by George$ »

parvus wrote:Do you need to be a shareholder?
I think so - but not certain. They check your ID and their computers before they let you through security.

But maybe you could pass as FWF press? :P
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by Bylo Selhi »

parvus wrote:Do you need to be a shareholder?
AFAIK only shareholders are allowed to attend the annual shareholders' meetings. Not even their spouse can attend (unless they're acting as a proxy for a shareholder who can't attend.)
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by parvus »

George$ wrote:
parvus wrote:Do you need to be a shareholder?
But maybe you could pass as FWF press? :P
Now there's a thought. I was thinking of buying some shares today, but I think I can only afford 10.

Does FFH trade frequently in odd lots rather than board lots?

But the point of going would be more to importune you and Norm for lunch rather than hear Prem Watsa's wisdom. I'm really just not sure about that BlackBerry investment.

Beaten-down tech stocks are not necessarily value stocks. They might well be falling knives.

But what do I know. I've assiduously eschewed the proliferation of mobile technologies, notwithstanding their prolix praises, which tend to obfuscate the difference between what is useful and what is a fashion item. :wink:
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by NormR »

parvus wrote:Does FFH trade frequently in odd lots rather than board lots?
I haven't had a problem buying it in odd lots in the past.
parvus wrote:But the point of going would be more to importune you and Norm for lunch rather than hear Prem Watsa's wisdom. I'm really just not sure about that BlackBerry investment.
Bit of an expensive trip just for that ;)

But there are enough freebies there that should justify a couple of commissions. :)
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by parvus »

The previous day's conference you described in your Mar 25 column would be the interesting bit.
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by NormR »

parvus wrote:The previous day's conference you described in your Mar 25 column would be the interesting bit.
You don't need to be a shareowner for that. Just pony up big $$$ or try to get a media pass from Dr. George.
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by George$ »

Hi:

I will be heading down to the AGM shortly and so I was looking at Prem's 2013 presentation
Objectives

We expect to compound our book value per share over the
long term by 15% annually by running Fairfax and its
subsidiaries for the long term benefit of customers,
employees and shareholders – at the expense of short term
profits if necessary
Our focus is long term growth in book value per share and
not quarterly earnings. We plan to grow through internal
means as well as through friendly acquisitions

We always want to be soundly financed

We provide complete disclosure annually to our
shareholders
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by George$ »

A comment and question about Fairfax and Prem Watsa.

I am a long term holder - but I look to see what markets are doing from day to day - via a financial google summary of my portfolio.

Fairfax is bouncing around (bouncing much more than Bershire or MSFT - my other two major holds) - but overall up 32% from my purchase. My take - Watsa is smart and is betting against the equity market - betting we are in a market equity bubble. Although he has lost on this over the last several years - he may do well if the market goes down the tube. Any thoughts on this?

I'm a holder but time will tell if this was wise.

Up today 2.56% to $516 per share. Could be in reverse again tomorrow - :lol:
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by brad911 »

Bubble or just on our way to one is hard to determine. Valuations right now are steep, but I'm a value guy

Depends on how much money continues to come in, but a correction definitely. A bubble might still be another year or more away though IMO
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by George$ »

A good up day for Fairfax - up 5.05% to $545.74 per share today - wonder if it will go up more - who knows :roll:

My top 5 (via $ value) share holdings these days - in descending order - with Fairfax in third (why I keep looking at it)

MSFT
HPQ
FFH
JNJ
BRK.B
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by Springbok »

When trying to re-invest FI, I keep seeing high yields from Fairfax bonds. But I never buy them. Anybody own them? Comments re risk?
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by AltaRed »

Springbok wrote:When trying to re-invest FI, I keep seeing high yields from Fairfax bonds. But I never buy them. Anybody own them? Comments re risk?
Rated BBB - investment grade but barely.... http://www3.ambest.com/ambv/bestnews/pr ... fnum=21221 That puts them, I believe, in the same league as Shaw Communications, Home Capital, Pembina Pipeline, AltaGas, etc.
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Re: Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (Symbol-FFH)

Post by jaguar »

FFH is selling new stock by prospectus at CAD650.
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