Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

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Rysto
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Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by Rysto »

Vanguard Canada has released tax information for its ETFs on its website, but I'm having trouble figuring out how I would report income for shares that I own for only part of the year. I realize that my brokerage is supposed to issue a T-slip for this anyway, but I'd like to know how to do it manually so I can double check. What's throwing me off is that the tax information is only listed for the tax year, but the ETF that I own (VCN) made four distributions in the year (and I didn't own it when it made the first distribution). How do I report this on my taxes? Do I have to pay taxes on distributions that I didn't receive?

Edit: Now I've pulled up the iShares tax information for comparison, and they do seem to break things down by distribution, so it looks like Vanguard is only publicly releasing partial tax information, unless there's a part of their website that I can't find. :(
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Re: Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by longinvest »

Even if there was another way to calculate things, I doubt the Canadian Revenu Agency would give much credence to calculations which don't agree with the T3 information they got on hand. So, I don't dare sending a speculative tax return before getting my T3 slips.

It's annoying to have to wait until April to file my tax returns (in Quebec we have a separate provincial one to file), but brokers have until the end of March to provide T3 slips.
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Re: Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by longinvest »

But, if you are curious, you could read this article on how to get detailed tax information about each distribution of Canadian-based ETFs:

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2014/04/ ... nt-page-1/
Go to the source

When you visit CDS Innovations (see our white paper for full instructions on navigating this site), you can download the spreadsheet ...
I've never been able to get that to work, because I don't have Microsoft Excel, and CDS Innovation spreadsheet macros don't seem to work in LibreOffice Calc.
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AltaRed
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Re: Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by AltaRed »

AFAIK, there is no way to be certain of the breakdown of the distributions if one only owns some shares for part of the year. It is easy enough to add up total distributions, but not the quarterly breakdown by income type. As already stated, the right answer is to wait for the T3.
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Re: Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by johnsmith1 »

I found out that calculations are so complex for holding these Canadian etfs last month so I sold all of these ETFs and bought them in the registered accounts. And moved stocks to non registered.

I only need to do these calculations this year and no headaches any more. If you do drip or purchase multi times, it's a disaster. I purchased some US listed etf outside recently, I will wait to see if things are easy for these ones, then I will buy more next year. But according to this forum, US listed etf is much simpler to do tax.
Rysto wrote: 18 Mar 2017 14:52 Vanguard Canada has released tax information for its ETFs on its website, but I'm having trouble figuring out how I would report income for shares that I own for only part of the year. I realize that my brokerage is supposed to issue a T-slip for this anyway, but I'd like to know how to do it manually so I can double check. What's throwing me off is that the tax information is only listed for the tax year, but the ETF that I own (VCN) made four distributions in the year (and I didn't own it when it made the first distribution). How do I report this on my taxes? Do I have to pay taxes on distributions that I didn't receive?

Edit: Now I've pulled up the iShares tax information for comparison, and they do seem to break things down by distribution, so it looks like Vanguard is only publicly releasing partial tax information, unless there's a part of their website that I can't find. :(
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Re: Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by IdOp »

Brokers have been known to issue incorrect distribution breakdowns by income type. Yes, they will correct it eventually, but I think it would be good to have the correct info available from the ETF provider so that one can double check (verify), and/or know what to expect. It's really a matter of transparency. Even if you don't use it every year, there's a comfort level knowing it's easily available if you should want it.
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Re: Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by gsp_ »

AltaRed wrote: 18 Mar 2017 18:39 AFAIK, there is no way to be certain of the breakdown of the distributions if one only owns some shares for part of the year. It is easy enough to add up total distributions, but not the quarterly breakdown by income type. As already stated, the right answer is to wait for the T3.
As stated by longinvest in the post immediately above yours, all this is available at CDS Innovations. It does unfortunately require a recent version of Excel to work properly.
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Re: Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by AltaRed »

Fair enough, but I've been to CDS, looked, and tossed any idea of trying to sort it out. I'd suggest the majority of investors won't look there either. It makes sense to just wait for the details to come with the T3 tax slip. There is no hurry.

Case in point: My ex sold her CPD holdings approximately 3Q last year. In order to correctly calculate her cap loss, she needs to know the ROC associated with her holding up to the date she sold it. One can work their brain looking up the monthly data from CDS or simply wait for the ROC data (all nicely totaled for her) that she will get from her brokerage. Why work one's brain now when it can all be handed to you circa first week of April?

Added: I've not seen errors on this stuff from brokerages, but even if there was, I would still use their data and not run into any conflict with having something different from what CRA has gotten from the FI.
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Re: Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by ghariton »

You can file using an estimate. Once you get your official tax slips, if they differ from your estimate, simply file an amendment. As long as the difference is not too large, and you file the amendment in a timely manner, CRA doesn't seem to care.

You may have to do that anyway. TDDI has, in the past, sent investors revised tax slips and we had to file amendments.

Why file early, and not what for your tax slips? Some of us are expecting refunds.

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Re: Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by IdOp »

There's also the case of historical info. For example the executor of an estate may have been left with poor records and need to go back many years to find RoC and "phantom" distributions. It would be great to find such info easily on the fund sponsor's website in an open format.
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Re: Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by crimsondr »

I received an incorrect T5 from Interactive Brokers and used CDS to find the correct numbers. It's actually quite easy. I've even used it to estimate my T3 for this year. I created an Excel and plugged in the information for 2015 and it correctly matched my T3 from 2015. So I assume it's correct for 2016 as well. But I am still waiting for my T3. Just wanted it to estimate my taxes while I wait.
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Re: Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by Mordko »

PWL has a great little paper on this: https://www.pwlcapital.com/pwl/media/pw ... f?ext=.pdf

I use a Google sheet to do the calculations. It tracks unrealized and realized gains and accounts for capital gains and return of capital distributions. The transactions and paid dividends are read in automatically from another one of my documents but the type of distribution data have to be manually transferred from the CDS website as described in the white paper.

I can make this sheet available, if there is interest and if I can get around to "anonymizing" it. Obviously to be used at your risk; the sheet was put together this year and hasn't been tested in anger against CRA.
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Re: Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by adrian2 »

crimsondr wrote: 19 Mar 2017 12:29I received an incorrect T5 from Interactive Brokers
Interactive Brokers is well known for messing up tax slips.
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Re: Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by crimsondr »

adrian2 wrote: 19 Mar 2017 12:50
crimsondr wrote: 19 Mar 2017 12:29I received an incorrect T5 from Interactive Brokers
Interactive Brokers is well known for messing up tax slips.
Do they correct it in the end? If not, then I will be filing with numbers which I'm confident are correct but different than the official t slip.
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Re: Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by adrian2 »

crimsondr wrote: 19 Mar 2017 13:18
adrian2 wrote: 19 Mar 2017 12:50
crimsondr wrote: 19 Mar 2017 12:29I received an incorrect T5 from Interactive Brokers
Interactive Brokers is well known for messing up tax slips.
Do they correct it in the end?
I have no direct experience with them.
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Re: Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by DenisD »

Sometimes IB will issue revised slips. I wait until well into April before starting my taxes.

I haven't had problems with their numbers for years. But I have no Canadian domiciled ETFs or trusts at IB.
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Re: Vanguard Canada ETF tax information

Post by crimsondr »

Just received a notification from IB that they revised my T5.
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