Charge GST on everything

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Charge GST on everything

Postby newguy » 25 Feb 2012 13:07

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2 ... mists.html

I think they should do this. And then hide the tax in the price. You wouldn't believe the hassle working in a grocery store with this stuff.

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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby NormR » 25 Feb 2012 13:13

newguy wrote:And then hide the tax in the price.


Strongly disagree on this point.
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby newguy » 25 Feb 2012 13:15

NormR wrote:
newguy wrote:And then hide the tax in the price.


Strongly disagree on this point.

But why? Should Air Canada hide nav-can fees in the price? I just hate not knowing how much something sells for and it hurts sales as well. It was much easier for me to sell impulse items at "$2 no tax" than "$1.73 plus tax".

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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby Bylo Selhi » 25 Feb 2012 13:23

Nothing new here. It's been discussed in several threads on FWF.

Both measures (a) HST on everything and (b) included in price need to be accompanied by income tax reductions and/or higher HST rebates for low income earners so the additional $39B would be reduced. In Europe the HST is around 20%, it's on almost everything and it's included in the sticker price. Receipts do show the amount of HST (VAT) that's included, just like in Canada gasoline receipts show the amount of GST that's included in the pump price.

Note to Steve and Jimbo: Now that (hopefully) you've seen the folly in reducing the GST, by enacting this measure you could gracefully do an about-face using a technique with which you're both quite familiar—tax reform by obfuscation and stealth.
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby kcowan » 25 Feb 2012 13:37

And it would make sense for the HST to be uniform across the country. Maybe make it 15% embedded so that the provinces (even AB) can afford the downloading of health care costs to come. It is time to pay the freight and not pass it along to future generations!
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby Pickles » 25 Feb 2012 13:39

newguy wrote:
NormR wrote:
newguy wrote:And then hide the tax in the price.


Strongly disagree on this point.

But why? Should Air Canada hide nav-can fees in the price? I just hate not knowing how much something sells for and it hurts sales as well. It was much easier for me to sell impulse items at "$2 no tax" than "$1.73 plus tax".

newguy


I think GST should be included in the sticker price but I also think groceries and utility bills should be exempt. The issue of knowing the final price is separate from the issue of which items should be subject to retail sales tax.
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby newguy » 25 Feb 2012 13:42

Pickles wrote:I also think groceries
It's the defintion of groceries that's the problem. Nuts? Salted nuts? Which is a grocery and which is a politician?

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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby Pickles » 25 Feb 2012 13:44

newguy wrote:
Pickles wrote:I also think groceries
It's the defintion of groceries that's the problem. Nuts? Salted nuts? Which is a grocery and which is a politician?

newguy


And then there's roasted nuts....
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby ghariton » 25 Feb 2012 15:01

newguy wrote:It's the defintion of groceries that's the problem.

Buy one doughnut, and its taxable because it's a snack. Buy a dozen doughnuts and it's not taxable because they are groceries.

Clearly part of a government campaign to get us to buy (and presumably eat) more doughnuts.

Buy a meal at a restaurant and it's taxable. Cook a meal at home and it's not.

Clearly part of a government campaign to keep women out of the work force and at home, cooking, etc.

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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby Nemo2 » 25 Feb 2012 15:14

Two peanuts walked down a street.....one was assaulted.
Exit, pursued by a bear.
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby zinfit » 25 Feb 2012 21:52

The GST exemptions are the the things that complicate the system. Why groceries is exempt is a mystery? other essentials like energy. power, housing ,transportation are just as essential especially in the winter months. Last time I checked Canada's food bill was the second lowest on average in the OECD. Low income Canadians would be protected by increasing the quarterly rebate. It won't happen because of politics. When did good policy ever coincide with politics?
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby NormR » 25 Feb 2012 21:59

Bylo Selhi wrote:In Europe the HST is around 20%, it's on almost everything and it's included in the sticker price. Receipts do show the amount of HST (VAT) that's included


That sounds better. The idea of trying to hide it entirely is irritating.
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby newguy » 25 Feb 2012 22:08

NormR wrote:
Bylo Selhi wrote:In Europe the HST is around 20%, it's on almost everything and it's included in the sticker price. Receipts do show the amount of HST (VAT) that's included


That sounds better. The idea of trying to hide it entirely is irritating.

I like that idea as well.

NormR would you also like to see the amount of corporate tax you pays included in the bill? How about property tax?

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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby Bylo Selhi » 25 Feb 2012 22:31

Here's a sample receipt:

vat.jpg


Note the last part. The VAT is 20%. The product (in this case hiking boots) had a sticker price of €199.99. The product cost was €166.66 (Netto) plus €33.33 VAT (MwSt) = €199.99.

Added: VAT in EU isn't as simple as I thought. According to VAT Rates Applied in the Member States of the European Union there are generally two or three rates at which VAT is applied. For instance in Austria, the standard rate is 20%, the reduced rate is 10% (e.g. "10% on food, 10% on milk and chocolate, 20% on coffee, tea and other alcoholic or not alcoholic beverages") and the "parking" rate of 12% on "Wine from farm production carried out by the producing farmer." Austria's regime seems relatively simple compared to some of the other EU members. In France the VAT on books varies according to contents. Most books are taxed at a reduced rate but "Books which have a pornographic character or which may incite violence" pay full VAT. Sacrebleu!

Edit: typo
Last edited by Bylo Selhi on 26 Feb 2012 08:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby NormR » 25 Feb 2012 22:49

newguy wrote:NormR would you also like to see the amount of corporate tax you pays included in the bill? How about property tax?


I'm not sure how that would work given most businesses don't know how many units they'll sell ahead of time. However they do know the GST
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby NormR » 25 Feb 2012 22:52

I wonder, does the imposition of a VAT make some low-margin businesses uneconomic and thus kill them off? If so, which ones?
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby Shine » 25 Feb 2012 23:05

What irritates me is the recharging of GST/PST/VAT on used items like cars, boats, and other items from which GST/PST/VAT has already been collected at the initial sale.

I realize the issue around house/condo sales complicates the issue, however on consumer items the tax should be reduced at least, if not eliminated. After all, one does pay transfer fees and additional costs for large consumer items like cars, boats, motorcycles and such.
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby newguy » 26 Feb 2012 00:15

NormR wrote:I wonder, does the imposition of a VAT make some low-margin businesses uneconomic and thus kill them off? If so, which ones?

I can only see that happening if they compete with a non-vat business. But that kind of tax arbitrage happens all the time. There's supposedly some bad news ahead for Amazon.

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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby newguy » 26 Feb 2012 00:21

NormR wrote:I'm not sure how that would work given most businesses don't know how many units they'll sell ahead of time. However they do know the GST
And the customers should know the HST as well. Basically you think customers can multiply by 1.13 but not divide. What is it you want to know? Is it the share of taxes you're paying or how much something would cost if there wasn't one kind of tax, which there is anyway?

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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby eezee » 26 Feb 2012 07:47

Bylo - "The product (in this case hiking books) had a sticker price of €199.99."

Surely a typo, and you meant boots ??
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby kcowan » 26 Feb 2012 08:34

NormR wrote:
Bylo Selhi wrote:In Europe the HST is around 20%, it's on almost everything and it's included in the sticker price. Receipts do show the amount of HST (VAT) that's included
That sounds better. The idea of trying to hide it entirely is irritating.
It is displayed in the totals only and several items are marked excluded if it is groceries.
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby Bylo Selhi » 26 Feb 2012 08:36

eezee wrote:Surely a typo, and you meant boots ??

Ja, genau.
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby Bylo Selhi » 26 Feb 2012 08:46

kcowan wrote:It is displayed in the totals only and several items are marked excluded if it is groceries.

In Canada too. Look at a grocery receipt that includes taxable items like cleaning supplies. There will be an asterisk or "G" or "H", etc. beside each item that's taxable and there will be line items at the bottom for total purchases, GST-only, HST, grand total, etc. Same with a restaurant receipt where the tax rate for booze and food differ (e.g. in ON.)

In the EU receipt I posted upthread I believe the "B" in the MWST (Mehrwertsteuer, literally "more value tax") column indicates 20% rate. Presumably an "A" would indicate the reduced 10% rate, etc. The summary at the bottom breaks out the subtotals at each rate.
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby eezee » 26 Feb 2012 12:59

Bylo Selhi wrote:
eezee wrote:Surely a typo, and you meant boots ??

Ja, genau.

Having to buy boots in Mayrhofen implies that you wore out the ones you had on in the Zillertaler Alpen.
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Re: Charge GST on everything

Postby Bylo Selhi » 26 Feb 2012 13:21

eezee wrote:Having to buy boots in Mayrhofen implies that you wore out the ones you had on in the Zillertaler Alpen.

Not worn out but rather one of the soles was separating. The last thing a hiker wants is to lose his soulsole hours away and with a rocky path back to civilization.

In the old days when soles were stitched to the boot that would have been a fairly simple repair. But today soles are molded/glued to the boot. I could have tried to re-glue but with dirt having entered into the space between the two surfaces that probably wouldn't have lasted long.

So the most expedient solution was to buy a new pair of boots. Besides the selection is much better in Mayrhofen (pop. <4,000) than Tronno (pop. ~6,000,000.) Note the date: early September. The hiking season wasn't quite over. When it ended a couple of weeks later those same boots went on sale for 20% off :cry:
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