Has North America protected itself from Europe ?

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Has North America protected itself from the financial plight of Europe?

No. We are in for a lot worse before it gets better.
14
33%
Yes. The Market has already priced in anything Greece and Europe can throw at us.
4
10%
Who knows? I'll just sit on the fence reinforcing the evolutionary shape of the human bum.
24
57%
 
Total votes : 42

Re: Has North America protected itself from Europe ?

Postby flywaysuzy » 15 Feb 2012 10:52

I was reading an article in the financial times where they talked to Greek elders. Whole apartment buildings agreed to leave the heat off as nobody had any money to pay for heat. Sounded more like cruelity instead of austerity...
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Re: Has North America protected itself from Europe ?

Postby CathyF » 15 Feb 2012 21:10

flywaysuzy wrote:I was reading an article in the financial times where they talked to Greek elders. Whole apartment buildings agreed to leave the heat off as nobody had any money to pay for heat. Sounded more like cruelity instead of austerity...


How bad can that be? Average January highs in Athens are about 13C. Nobody is freezing to death at those temperatures. Inside an apartment, it's probably a few degrees warmer, even without heating turned on. It's probably not much cooler than what Canadians have their homes heated to in the winter.

I really don't feel sorry for the Greeks, even the poorer citizens. They voted in their government. In a democracy, you get the government you deserve. They chose to party like it was 1999 for two decades. Time to pay the bill.

I hope the Germans (and other European countries) make a harsh example of the Greeks. It will serve as a lesson to other countries. They can't afford to let Italy go bankrupt, so better to scare the Italians into cutting social programs deep and soon. Let the Greeks riot themselves back to a 3rd world country, and leave them there.
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Re: Has North America protected itself from Europe ?

Postby flywaysuzy » 16 Feb 2012 16:30

Currently temps. range from .8 to 11 degrees Cesius, with a lot of 3 and 4 and 5 degrees in locations across Greece. I wouldn't want to live without heat. Buildings cool down at night and without heat to warm up in the daytime, they just aren't comfortable. The Greek people have turned one of the Olympic venues into a heated shelter where cold people can go to warm up.
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Re: Has North America protected itself from Europe ?

Postby CathyF » 16 Feb 2012 18:08

flywaysuzy wrote:Currently temps. range from .8 to 11 degrees Cesius, with a lot of 3 and 4 and 5 degrees in locations across Greece. I wouldn't want to live without heat. Buildings cool down at night and without heat to warm up in the daytime, they just aren't comfortable. The Greek people have turned one of the Olympic venues into a heated shelter where cold people can go to warm up.


They're not going to freeze to death at those temperatures. Yes, they may be uncomfortable... good! Maybe they should have thought of that when they were stealing other people's money, not paying their taxes, and faking their books to get into the Eurozone. Greece is a democracy. They're paying for the greed and foolishness, now.

They deserve no pity. If someone steals thousands of dollars from me, I resent them, not pity them. That is exactly what the Greeks are doing to the Germans and French, and even the rest of us via the IMF.
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Re: Has North America protected itself from Europe ?

Postby schmuck » 16 Feb 2012 19:19

CathyF wrote:Let the Greeks riot themselves back to a 3rd world country, and leave them there.


Gee Cathy, not sure if I'd go as far as free gas and matches, but I suppose there's no use in sugar coating harsh medicine when there's no viable alternative.

No surprise that some wacko politicians would want to print their way out of the problem, but I don't feel all warm and fuzzy when I hear commentators with a financial and economic background like John Stephenson on BNN who are tempted to support such an idea. It may have worked for the FED after the financial crisis of 08, but that story also ain't over till it's over.

JS mentioned that Merkel is scared to crank up the presses because Germans are still horrified by the hyperinflation of the Weimar Republic....c'mon John, ya really think there are still people around who were adults at that time who are not senile or shell shocked by later events?
Last edited by schmuck on 16 Feb 2012 20:33, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Has North America protected itself from Europe ?

Postby CathyF » 16 Feb 2012 19:39

schmuck wrote:No surprise that some wacko politicians would want to print their way out of the problem,


Printing is just another way for the European members to pay for Greek ineptness. Bad behaviour should never be rewarded.

Printing doesn't really help if you still have a deficit. All it does it drive up bond yields, and you end up having to pay even more to service your debt. It might help wipe out debt if you don't need to borrow any more money, but then you don't really need to print.

I don't know why it has so far seemed to work in the U.S. Either their economy is expected to grow a lot to make up for the printing (which isn't likely), or the fear-factor is still driving people into the supposed safety of the US dollar. I'm betting when the fear-trade comes off, the US dollar is going to get hit big-time, and the US will be punished with very high yields on long-term debt. We could be looking at very serious long-term inflation there, as they are forced to keep printing to service their ever-growing debt.

I'd invest in the US stock market, hedged to Canadian dollars. Something like XSP. It should do well over the next 10 years or so. Lots of global companies, reporting earnings in shrinking US dollars, all hedged back to Canadian dollars backed by real energy and material resources.
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Re: Has North America protected itself from Europe ?

Postby patriot1 » 20 Feb 2012 12:45

I'd invest in the US stock market, hedged to Canadian dollars
.
That's a bet that you're right about future USD/CAD rates and the currency futures markets and bond markets are wrong, and that those markets won't catch on that they're wrong.
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Re: Has North America protected itself from Europe ?

Postby adrian2 » 20 Feb 2012 14:58

patriot1 wrote:
I'd invest in the US stock market, hedged to Canadian dollars
.
That's a bet that you're right about future USD/CAD rates and the currency futures markets and bond markets are wrong, and that those markets won't catch on that they're wrong.

That's a fallacy I once believed in. Currency future markets don't predict anything; they are a result (direct math calculation, if you wish) of interest rates.

E.g., if CAD/USD a year from now is higher than CAD/USD now, it does not mean the market is predicting a higher CAD one year later, it just means that CAD 1 year bond yields are higher than the corresponding USD version (and vice-versa).
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“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.” [Richard P. Feynman, Nobel prize winner]
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