Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

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Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by Spidey » 10 Sep 2017 11:05

Just thinking long term here. First of all, I've always been a strong proponent of property ownership, so this line of thinking goes somewhat against my nature. But currently, I'm watching my 86-year-old mother who refuses to leave her multi-level home for one-level accommodation and I'm thinking that it may make sense to get into one-level living before moving becomes too difficult both from emotional and practical perspectives. So perhaps, the appropriate time would be around 70, which would be a little over a decade away for me. The question that then arises - what sort of one-level living? The automatic choice seems to be a condo but there appear to be several disadvantages to condo living. Namely:

- Purchase price. A decent 2 bedroom, 2 bath condo in a desirable location of Ottawa appears to start in the low $500,000 range, which is more than my house would sell for.
- Maintenance fees. Maintenance fees appear outrageous in Ottawa and start around $500 and can even be as high as $700 or more per month. Often there is even an extra fee for parking.
- Condo boards. I've owned a couple of condos in the past and the condo boards were always an issue. There were always members of the board who were constantly pushing to unnecessarily increase the contingency funds (and thereby increase maintenance fees). There always seems to be a certain group that wants to spend other owner's money on improvements that make little sense.
- Extra levies for repairs. One thing that I found aggravating was that even when there was sufficient money in the contingency fund for repairs, the board was unwilling to dip into it. (I think perhaps legislation might require a certain minimum in the contingency as well.) So if the building needed significant repairs such as a new roof or repairs for significant water damage, the owners were hit with an extra levy. So this possibility is always hanging over your head as a condo owner.
- Difficult neighbors. In every condo I've owned there were always a couple of "by-law Nazis" who took it upon themselves to patrol the building and complain to the board about even the most minor perceived violation of regulations. Often, I wasn't even the subject of their complaints but I still found it irritating. And I've heard similar stories from friends who have owned condos. Condo buildings with a large percentage of seniors seem worse in this regard. ISTM that renters generally have more rights than condo owners.
- Possible liquidation difficulties. As one ages, one never knows when a health issue may make a move to a retirement residence necessary. At best, one would have real estate fees totaling perhaps $20,000. At worst, one might have to sell in a depressed real-estate market and lose a significant portion of the original investment. The same could happen if I just didn't like the place to an extent that a move was necessary.

In contrast, I could rent probably an equivalent or nicer accommodation for between $1400 and $2000 - probably one that had a decent workout room and other leisure amenities. I could put the money from the sale of my house into apartment REITs or other dividend paying stocks and have the bulk of the rent covered. If I hated the place or the neighbors and had to move for any reason, I would pay nothing but moving fees if I timed the move for the end of the lease. At worse I might have to pay out a few months rent, which while painful, would likely be significantly less than real-estate fees for the sale of a condo. I would basically just pay the rent and not worry about the management issues that one always has to be concerned about owning a condo. Going on vacation would consist of locking the door and leaving. And my heirs would not be left with the hassle of selling a property.

So does this seem logical? Have any of you come to this conclusion? As I said, this is a ways off for me but I tend to be a long term planner. My wife, like me has always been a proponent of ownership and although she is not totally against it, she is having significant difficulty with the concept.
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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by brucecohen » 10 Sep 2017 11:59

I served on a condo board years ago and agree with your views. Headed by a retired senior bank executive, my board was very well run according to business principles. While I appreciated that, it was often frustrating because, like a major business, we typically paid top dollar for repairs and services. At one point some retired residents offered to start a gardening club and tend our gardens for free, but the board refused the offer due to concerns about liability, responsibility and control. Later I really enjoyed renting a condo instead of owning it. I had a good landlord and he had a good tenant.

While renting has lots of advantages over ownership, there's potentially a big problem: tenure. I don't know about Ottawa but many of Toronto's condos are now owned by speculators so there's ongoing risk of having to move. ISTM that moving becomes harder as one ages. (Note: Ontario's rent control law covers units built before Nov 1991.)

We live on an acreage and DW and I plan to follow the lead of the people from whom we bought this place. When they could no longer handle the property, they bought a subdivision bungalow on the edge of a nearby town. Their property has a very small lot for easy maintence but there's a conservation area walking trail next to it so they can easily access forest yet have the convenience of urban/suburban living.

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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by FinEcon » 10 Sep 2017 12:27

Spidey, great job thinking it through.

I'm nearly 50 years younger than your mom and this is my strategy in a nutshell, always has been. In most provinces, renters have a very strong and potentially valuable set of rights. To reduce the risk that Bruce mentioned, I tend to rent from corps and as an added bonus they follow the tenancy act to the letter. Some of the larger outfits have Cotsco level customer service. If you've ever dealt with Boardwalk, you know what I'm talking about. Try getting that out of the typical absentee, out of town, self managing landlord.

As an example, I'm in a new building and have had a contractual rent advantage in the neighbourhood of $50-275 per month for nearly 3 years. Rents have increased sharply but mine goes up 3% or so each year. Unlike a house which increases in value, I capture this imputed cash flow value immediately. Not to mention, rent is an all in number so it includes 'strata' fees which often increase much faster than rent.

The only downside to renting is social stigma of doing so. Since everyone with the exception of financial loser types is able to buy, it is assumed one is in the latter category if one chooses to rent. Best to put your wallet before other people's opinions.
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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by Chuck » 10 Sep 2017 13:09

Spidey wrote:
10 Sep 2017 11:05
So does this seem logical? Have any of you come to this conclusion? As I said, this is a ways off for me but I tend to be a long term planner. My wife, like me has always been a proponent of ownership and although she is not totally against it, she is having significant difficulty with the concept.
It seems logical to me. Keep in mind by the age you are considering renting, long term price appreciation of property as an investment will only be relevant to your heirs.

Also, renting gives you the option of moving with reasonable frequency (like to different cities) should you ever choose to do so. This many not be relevant if you have deep roots. But maybe you might want a smaller community, nicer climate/environs or what not in your older age.

Finally, if you have any snowbird inclinations, it's probably easier to leave a rented place empty (if it's in a high rise or similar) than a detached home. Needs little if any 'house sitting'.

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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by AltaRed » 10 Sep 2017 13:28

As one ages into one's 80s, one cares less about almost everything except family connections, health and whether one might be stealing their money (ripping them off). At that age, comfort, convenience and interaction are more important.

I would avoid a straight out condo high rise or even low rise or townhouse because of the usual wide demographics, usually younger or poorer, in such complexes. It just doesn't fit for an 80 year old. Also, it seems condo high rise stratas are more likely subject to incompetence as most condo boards have no idea how to run a complex high rise. There have been more than enough horror stories. The message: Get into a community designed for and caters to the older cohort.

Depending on net worth, and age, consider buying a 'bungalow villa' in a retirement community, either fully detached or semi-detached. There are communities that have 2 bedroom, or 2 bedroom + den, 1200 type sq ft units like that in a strata relationship. There are a number of such communities here with average age probably about 80, and there is an active social life if one wants on in the 'community centre' that is usually well situated within such a community/compound. They usually come with single or even double car garages. I could see my spouse and I moving to such a 'village' by the time we are 80 for comfort, convenience and comadarie. Maybe even before that if our health deteriorates.

Meanwhile, there are a lot of nice rental independent living communities too run by outfits like Chartwell that can provide a very nice existence with meals as one wishes, entertainment, social interaction, etc. I can see spouse and myself in one of those particularly when our health deteriorates to the point we do not want to handle all day-to-day responsibilities such as meals.

I have mentioned in the past that it took effort from my brother and I to get our 90ish mother out of her single family bungalow and into a rental independent living facility where she should have been since about age 80....except there was nothing suitable around in her small town then. As soon as one was built, we got her into it. She was much better for it and other than missing her 'garden' which she really was not doing anything about, she was overdue moving into such a rental unit.

So.... my message is (and what I see for ourselves):
1. Get out of the boat anchor of a standard house before it becomes a ball and chain.
2. Forget about the standard condo development NOT intended for the older cohort. As mentioned, there can be many horror stories.
3. When we are done with our single family boat anchor, purchase a detached bungalow in a strata retirement community designed and run with the senior cohort in mind.....and/or
4. Consider a rental independent living unit when we no longer feel capable of managing #3.....or skip #3 altogether and go straight to rental and get one's meals, housekeeping, etc done for us.
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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by Spidey » 10 Sep 2017 18:19

Thanks for the input.

I think the advantage with apartments is that they are much better managed then condos. As Bruce said, condo boards tend to pay top dollar for everything they get done whereas I think apartment management has both more leeway and incentive to get the best deal. I also agree with FinEcon that there is a certain stigma from renting, which would have mattered to me at one time but not anymore. Unfortunately, Ottawa offers very limited selection in the retirement bungalow housing that Altared mentioned. There is one such development in my neighborhood but the prices seem outrageous. I don't know why builders aren't catching on to demographics and continue to build 4 and 5 bedroom houses. As for apartments, I would consider something along these lines:

http://williamscourt.com/?gclid=EAIaIQo ... gJbYPD_BwE

If more people start thinking like I am, perhaps apartment REITs are a good investment.
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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by amphitryon » 10 Sep 2017 18:54

Interesting discussion and also a bit on our mind, although the ''issues'' may be slightly different: we are both in our early seventies and while one part is very healthy, the other one requires frequent hospital visits for scans and check-ups. This changes the options immediately, since proximity to a decent hospital is needed for ease of access. Add to it that we still take care of three grandchildren one day a week, sometimes two, and the options shrink again.
We have done the ''condo route'' for 14 years and it was very good; I was on the board all the time, which helped. We still have friends there and visit often. But the location - downtown Toronto in the Garment District, did not work for us after a while, since new buildings grew all around our eight story building and started to block out vistas; the ''newcomers were much taller. Add to it that our unit was a two storey loft, and you see why we decided to move.
The new one - a share co-op - had and still has three draws for us: all on one level, steps from Yonge and Bloor and we look from our quite large balcony at the heavily treed and several hundred feet deep backyards of expensive homes. In summer, you cannot see any buildings for the trees. The area is also protected and can never be built upon. What's not so hot? The Board is run by an egomaniac who has no practical knowledge on any management function; the rest of the directors are picked (with his help) for not questioning anything he says. Cost containment is totally unknown and so is a simple tender process for contracts or larger ticket items. Fees including taxes for 1,100 ft square (two bedroom, 1.5 bath) with parking and a locker are $ 1,350.00. There's a lovely outdoor pool, sauna and exercise room. No ''common room'' or guest suite. The grandchildren are 15 car minutes away, also a bonus.
So where are we? We too are starting to consider renting, which, since we like the neighbourhood, would ideally be within the current one. Some outdoor space/balcony is a must and so is ''greenery'' in close proximity. A tall order in a city, buy we're not in a rush. And no, I'm not hung up on the perception of being a ''renter''; and no need to continue to build more equity through ownership. The next level after that will be an independent living unit, especially when ''down to one''.
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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by AltaRed » 10 Sep 2017 20:20

Spidey wrote:
10 Sep 2017 18:19
Unfortunately, Ottawa offers very limited selection in the retirement bungalow housing that Altared mentioned. There is one such development in my neighborhood but the prices seem outrageous. I don't know why builders aren't catching on to demographics and continue to build 4 and 5 bedroom houses. As for apartments, I would consider something along these lines:

http://williamscourt.com/?gclid=EAIaIQo ... gJbYPD_BwE

If more people start thinking like I am, perhaps apartment REITs are a good investment.
Probably because Ottawa may not be the ideal place for retirees to migrate too....as compared to the Central Okanagan valley. While a change in location may be an issue due to loss of family and friends, there must be southern Ontario locations (Kingston? Thousand Islands? Peterborough?) that attract senior demographics. Sometimes, being amongst your own cohort can be more promising, and with more social contact, than existing family and friends that have their own lives. Just a thought.

If I picked an apartment, it would be in a 55+ building/complex. I don't need/want to live among 20 and 30 somethings.

FWIW, I own BEI.UN, CAR.UN and CSH.UN, all in my TFSA. They are all residential rental. BEI.UN is taking a beating currently due to its AB situation, but I suspect that will only last another year (or less).

Added: These are all 'forever' holds for me. Doubt I will tap the TFSA in my lifetime.
Last edited by AltaRed on 10 Sep 2017 20:57, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by Spidey » 10 Sep 2017 20:56

AltaRed wrote:
10 Sep 2017 20:20

FWIW, I own BEI.UN, CAR.UN and CSH.UN, all in my TFSA. They are all residential rental. BEI.UN is taking a beating currently due to its AB situation, but I suspect that will only last another year (or less).
I also own all three. I have quite a large holding in CAR.UN but only a small position in CSH and BEI. I think BEI.UN will come back but could face further volatility in the short-term - probably a good entry point for those in for the long-term and I'm starting to think that apartment REITs may prove to be a better demographic play than retirement REITs.
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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by AltaRed » 10 Sep 2017 21:01

Spidey wrote:
10 Sep 2017 20:56
I'm starting to think that apartment REITs may prove to be a better demographic play than retirement REITs.
Hard to know. Chartwell is building several new buildings, mostly in Quebec. It may depend on the location from where one is viewing this perspective. Cap rates and occupancy are the overall most important things in terms of investment returns.
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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by brucecohen » 11 Sep 2017 09:41

Spidey wrote:
10 Sep 2017 20:56
AltaRed wrote:
10 Sep 2017 20:20

FWIW, I own BEI.UN, CAR.UN and CSH.UN, all in my TFSA. They are all residential rental. BEI.UN is taking a beating currently due to its AB situation, but I suspect that will only last another year (or less).
I also own all three. I have quite a large holding in CAR.UN but only a small position in CSH and BEI. I think BEI.UN will come back but could face further volatility in the short-term - probably a good entry point for those in for the long-term and I'm starting to think that apartment REITs may prove to be a better demographic play than retirement REITs.
Has anyone run the numbers on this strategy:
1. Aging homeowner sells
2. Rents a suitable condo/apartment/bungalow
3. Invests a hefty chunk of house sale proceeds in REITs whose tax-advantaged distributions subsidize the rental cost.

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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by Arby » 11 Sep 2017 10:12

brucecohen wrote:
11 Sep 2017 09:41
Has anyone run the numbers on this strategy:
1. Aging homeowner sells
2. Rents a suitable condo/apartment/bungalow
3. Invests a hefty chunk of house sale proceeds in REITs whose tax-advantaged distributions subsidize the rental cost.
I hadn't ever considered that strategy until I read this thread. A few things to consider when running the numbers:
- look at the after-tax income that is generated from the proceeds of the home sale
- I would invest the proceeds in dividend paying stocks rather than REITs, as many older REITs don't have much of a tax advantage any more (e.g. H&R distribution is 93% taxable income, Riocan 100% taxable, CREIT 91%, Chartwell 63%)

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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by AltaRed » 11 Sep 2017 10:24

I have not explicitly looked at that scenario yet for myself but it is what we did a 'back of envelope' scenario on for our mother when we got her to an independent living facility.

In her case, it was GIC interest off declining house proceeds - declining because she was also tapping into house proceeds capital for rental payments. Still, she was likely good for 10 years depending on rent increases and/or GIC interest rate changes..... 10 years of coverage that would most likely be beyond her longevity...which it turned out to be.

Whether one uses dividend paying stocks or REITs depends on ones taxable income and the value of the DTC relative to the income stream off REITs. I'd suggest for most people, the calculation could be close to a 'wash' since a good DTC yield is in the 4% range and for REITs, the distribution income stream is circa 6%.

Added: Any back of the envelope calculation would need to be refined as one approached decision date. A lot can happen in, for example, 10 years with respect to housing appreciation, rental increases, etc.
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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by kcowan » 11 Sep 2017 11:19

Our rental complex is operated by Maple Leaf Property Management (and owned by Park Royal Ventures). There are 500 rental units. It is backed by/run by Iranians. It is a huge company and seems to be very successful. Rent have increased 55% in 20 years. The unit is rent-controlled but increases through capital investments are allowed. The land is rented from the Capilano band on a 99-year lease.

Since moving in in 1997, the owners have done the following:
-Repainted the builded exterior, included balconies
-Replaced all flooring in common space and apartments
-Rehabilitated all elevators, mostly mechanical but also doors, floors, facades
-Repaired the membrane roof
-Replaced the hot water heaters
-Replaced all copper plumbed throughout the buildeds (30 year effective life)
-Rehabilitated the builded exterior, re-pointed the concrete balcony floors
-Repainted the entire builded exterior again (new colour scheme)
-Replaced all common fixtures with CFL-enabled ones
-Replaced the skylights in all penthouses
-Replaced all in-suite fixtures: light switches and power outlets, ceiled fixtures, cupboard doors, electrical appliances, counters, sinks, bathtubs and toilets
-Rehabilitated 4-level parked garage, repaired where the reinforced concrete was crumbled, and refinished the floor
-Replaced the penthouse patio flooring (1300 sq.ft.)
-Replaced the wall-to-wall carpet with engineered hardwood (2000 sq.ft.)
-Repainted the apartment

Since the owners are not motivated to spend money on maintenance until forced, all these have been essential or justified items. The situation might be unique.

(Note that this does not include any expensive building envelope remediation. The building is well-built and water-tight. The building is now 50 years old but looks like new. There have also been extensive renovations outside to driveways and traffic flow, planters, trees and grass. But where services could be cut back, they have, e.g. recycling on the same floor versus the parking garage. We still get mail delivery through the apartment door.)

Prior to this I had spent 30 years as a property owner and my last property was 5000 sq.ft. on a one acre lot with pool and enclosed jacuzzi, 3-car garage. It was in an estate subdivision of large homes (not McMansions).

So I think the decision is unique to what options are realistic in your environment. But I show this because there are perfectly acceptable rentals if you look hard enough and are willing to wait until a unit becomes available in your choice of building/neighbourhood. Usually there is a wait list.

I think owning REITs is independent of whether you own or rent. I have a buddy who owns $5.6 million worth of RE and has no other equity. Not for me to say. :roll:
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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by ghariton » 11 Sep 2017 12:05

Each situation is unique, and there are factors other than monetary that enter into the decision.

In my case, I'm very sensitive to noise. Our house is in a very quiet neighbourhood, behind a school and beside a park. There's hardly ever anybody there outside of school hours. I've also had anti-noise insulation applied to our bedroom. My wife has put in forty years; worth of work on her garden, and passers-by find it impressive. Hard to find a rental unit like that.

We are autonomous now, and expect to be that way for a few more years. For a few years after that, we will get help as needed to help us stay in our house. I expect to be able to continue that way for a long time, with increasing levels of assistance. After that, I probably won't care.

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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by brucecohen » 11 Sep 2017 13:36

Another financing thought occurred to me this morning. As a homeowner I pay about $8,000/yr in property tax. And that will rise over the next few years as Ontario's market value system phases in the higher valuation MPAC did last year. Tax on the bungalow I've been planning on purchasing some day might be less, but is more likely to be the about the same. ISTM $8,000 can cover 3 months or so of rent each year.

I think BC lets aged homeowners defer property tax payments until the house is sold, but AFAIK Ontario doesn't. And such deferral programs will likely be scrapped or, more likely, income-tested once most/all boomers are elderly.

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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by AltaRed » 11 Sep 2017 13:52

I think seniors who are still active today underestimate increasinly waning desire/ability to manage an owned property.... despite George's intentions. Good intentions tend to fall by the wayside when the stress of getting something done (contracting satisfactory assistance is a can of worms in itself) gives way to simply NOT doing. We see a lot of properties deteriorate as a result of elderly neglect. Sounds good now. Maybe not so much at 80 years of age.

Bruce, MVA change in itself does not raise property taxes unless you are disproportionately re-assessed relative to everyone else. That said, property tax creep is inevitable given higher and higher union wages and benefits municipalities generally seem unwilling to address. BC does have a property tax deferral program but I don't hear it talked about much. Sounds a lot like debt the current elderly cohort tend to abhor.

Another factor. Not many elderly do all that well in an isolationist existence, essentially trapped in their own homes, with fewer and fewer social contacts. Some people can live comfortably like hermits. Most do not. My mother was a case in point. Fewer and fewer people were visiting as they became less mobile and/or died off. She complained about being lonely but refused to acknowledge her self-imposed exile in her own home was responsible for much of that. You can lead a horse to water......but. She became happier when she moved to an independent living facility.

Added: Perhaps my perspective is not mainstream. I moved a lot for my career so owning a particular property has little 'nesting value' to me. There is little emotional attachment. I look at it strictly from a view of comfort, environment and good feelings. When the 'piss offs' start to agitate me too much, I would have no issue picking up and going elsewhere. Spouse is not quite of the same view but she might change her mind when I start to refer all the maintenance and contracting jobs to her.
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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by Spidey » 11 Sep 2017 16:03

brucecohen wrote:
11 Sep 2017 09:41
Spidey wrote:
10 Sep 2017 20:56
AltaRed wrote:
10 Sep 2017 20:20

FWIW, I own BEI.UN, CAR.UN and CSH.UN, all in my TFSA. They are all residential rental. BEI.UN is taking a beating currently due to its AB situation, but I suspect that will only last another year (or less).
I also own all three. I have quite a large holding in CAR.UN but only a small position in CSH and BEI. I think BEI.UN will come back but could face further volatility in the short-term - probably a good entry point for those in for the long-term and I'm starting to think that apartment REITs may prove to be a better demographic play than retirement REITs.
Has anyone run the numbers on this strategy:
1. Aging homeowner sells
2. Rents a suitable condo/apartment/bungalow
3. Invests a hefty chunk of house sale proceeds in REITs whose tax-advantaged distributions subsidize the rental cost.
It is difficult to run the numbers exactly as it will depend on the price one gets for their house, which REITS one chooses to invest in and how much a person was willing to pay for rent. But I think the dividend returns from REITS could pay for perhaps 9 or 10 months worth of rent for an above average 2 bedroom apartment. And then as you mentioned there wouldn't be property taxes or some of the other costs associated with owning a home which might account for the additional 2 or 3 months. BEI.UN is currently paying 5.66%, although it would be likely preferable to have a basket of REITS.
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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by northbynorthwest » 11 Sep 2017 19:33

Here’s some data from a family member in her upper 70s.
She sold her property in a remote area nearly 10 years ago to move to Vancouver Island. Her dream location would be near downtown Victoria, to be close to culture, friends, and able to walk or take transit everywhere, not be car dependent.
Property sale netted about $200k. Initially considered purchasing a condo and, to meet her budget, came close to buying one in a gritty Nanaimo neighbourhood close to a Hell’s Angels clubhouse with a strata that seemed at risk of big liabilities.
Ultimately decided instead to rent and invest the 200k, mostly in Cdn blue chip dividend payers, using dividend stream to supplement CPP, OAP. Heavy on banks/lifecos/utilities, couple of REITs. Some also went into balanced / global / international funds for diversification and did not contribute to the dividend stream.
She settled on a 1 BR rental apartment in Victoria in an older high rise owned and managed by a big property corp. It’s a 5-10 min walk to downtown Victoria, the ocean or shopping, with ocean view, and next to a big park.

Initial rent in 2007/08 was $850. That has risen by 0 to 3% a year, reaching around $960 this year.
Dividends are fully used (not reinvested) via a sweep account. They averaged $485 per month initially, dipped to $473 a month with the financial crisis after dividend cuts by MFC and HR.UN, and have climbed steadily since, reaching an average of $925 per month now.
With dividend growth far outpacing rent increases, she has enjoyed increasingly comfortable cashflow, so she need not be anywhere near as frugal as is her nature.
The portfolio has grown from $200k to $300k in the meantime, after full extraction of dividends and the occasional sale of mutual funds for extra spending, trips.

No regrets on her end. Less anxiety by eliminating home ownership worries was definitely a plus for her.
Can’t tell you how putting the $200k in the Nanaimo condo would have panned out over the past decade in $ comparison.

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AltaRed
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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by AltaRed » 11 Sep 2017 20:50

northbynorthwest wrote:
11 Sep 2017 19:33
Can’t tell you how putting the $200k in the Nanaimo condo would have panned out over the past decade in $ comparison.
It may have cost her an arm and a leg in special assessments or any one of a number of horror stories, or a huge capital gain. But it is irrelevant in any case. Her standard of living has improved with no home ownership worries. How much better can it get than that?
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kcowan
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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by kcowan » 12 Sep 2017 14:01

northbynorthwest wrote:
11 Sep 2017 19:33
No regrets on her end. Less anxiety by eliminating home ownership worries was definitely a plus for her.
I think your had the advantage that she was already moving. MIL was in her Richmond townhouse and it was very well-run. No headaches. We tried to get her to move into our complex but whenever a place became available, she got cold feet. After three tries, we gave up. She finally left the TH feet first at 93. The only thing she had agreed to was a non-resident housekeeper.
For the fun of it...Keith

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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by j831robert » 16 Sep 2017 23:36

Wife and I are now 85 and wife has been resident in a nursing home for 4 years. I remained in our 3br home for 1 year and then sold it and moved into a ground-floor 2br apartment two blocks walk from her nursing home. House sold quickly and I simply divided the proceeds equally between our five children and each received a cheque as a 'gift from your Mother'. Financially this has all worked out very well and 'life is good'' particularly so since the local "Seniors Centre ' is a minutes walk away. I am currently suffering withdrawl from my investment hobby having recently turned over our 'stuff' to a Private Bank , but acquisition of someone's once loved Hammond organ is filling in the time to my satisfaction (not so sure of how the neighbors suffer my keyboard errors but no one yet has been pounding on the walls). I have also given up my semi-annual or quarterly trips to LasVegas - mostly because I have run out of trusting husbands who will permit their wife to accompany me as my travel companion with the proviso that we will share a room but not a bed - strange world ! Based on my personal experience to date I find that a well run apartment rental provides a release from so many of the responsibilities that attend home ownership. !

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kcowan
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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by kcowan » 17 Sep 2017 08:25

j831robert wrote:
16 Sep 2017 23:36
Wife and I are now 85 and wife has been resident in a nursing home for 4 years. I remained in our 3br home for 1 year and then sold it and moved into a ground-floor 2br apartment two blocks walk from her nursing home.
Thanks for the look ahead for how we might evolve. Can you share the monthly costs of the apartment compared to the house?
For the fun of it...Keith

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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by Spidey » 17 Sep 2017 09:07

I've had multiple unsuccessful conversations with my now 86 year-old mother, a few years ago, in attempt to convince her to move to single level living. I tried to explain that this could be a way to keep her independence longer and by avoiding needing retirement home care due to falls. I also explained that it would be an opportunity to choose the type of accommodation she would find acceptable rather than being forced into a situation that she didn't like due to an accident. She is now extremely unstable on her feet and over the last year, she's already had several falls; the last one resulting in a broken arm from which she still hasn't fully recovered from. It is only a matter of time before she falls and severely injures herself either on the stairs or an ice patch in front of the house in the winter. Unfortunately, it is now probably too late for her to move to an apartment as she is too close to needing a higher level of care to safely sign a lease.

I do get the attachment to one's home and it will not be an easy decision for me when the time comes. But I suspect for me the appropriate time to make such a move would be somewhere in my early to mid seventies. However, it may be a hard sell for my wife. Strangely enough, it seems like women don't care for it when you say, "Your just like my mother". :shock: :D
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Re: Does it make sense to rent in later retirment?

Post by nomad » 17 Sep 2017 09:15

Spidey wrote:
17 Sep 2017 09:07
Strangely enough, it seems like women don't care for it when you say, "Your just like my mother". :shock: :D
Or just like her own mother! :D
Not all those who wander are lost... J.R.R. Tolkien

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