Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

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Hopetoretire
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Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by Hopetoretire »

Looking for a thorough cost-effective lawyer to revise POAs, wills, set up living will, possibly trust fund, etc. to protect my family from greedy relatives (yes, we have many sad to say) in the GTA, preferably eastern side (Ajax or Pickering also okay).

Any recommendations? Will also be nominating attorney to be joint executor with my tax consultant to ensure safety of assets (for sure, family will dispute) as I hope to leave to charities and good supportive friends. PM me if you want to tell me about who NOT to use.

Thank you in advance, I have to get this right.
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by kcowan »

My recommendation is neutral (Yonge St):
Maureen Monaghan
maureen@monaghanlaw.com
416-486-9919

Great lady. Very competent very helpful very reasonable prices.
Used her for Dad and Brother. She even called my Ex on Saturday to resolve an issue.

Had no problem dealing from Vancouver. She is current on the technology.
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by Hopetoretire »

Thank you. Any idea of fees? I read that wills are about $250 for a single adult - is this average in Toronto?

Also question open to all - if I use the attorney as a co-executor for my will, who else can I use (assuming no trustworthy relatives, friends or colleagues)? Does a bank provide co-executor services? Or an accounting firm? Or any other professional company?

Is there a bundled charge for services? E.g. what I need done

1. Will
2. POA for finance and health
3. Revocable living trust (is this overlapping with 2)?
4. Testamentary trust (for elderly parent who has lost decision-making capabilities) - does this overlap with the will?

Also, will funeral home contact executor/s on my death to get the ball rolling, and will executor sell home and distribute funds for will and/or testamentary trust? I think I'll just donate all household contents to Salvation army store, and car to Teen Challenge (yes, I'm frugal with these things)!
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by AltaRed »

Even for Toronto, I think you are quite light on the cost, especially with the other documents being asked for (often a package price for the lot).

If you do not have trustworthy relatives, friends or colleagues, who would you trust to manage your finances if you became mentally incompetent (perhaps for years) or on life/life ending decisions (health)?

I don't know about using a lawyer for a co-executor, or sole executor. WADR to lawyers, I don't think they are that well equipped to handle your finances as a POA or an executor. There are more and more instances of laywers being disciplined and/or disbarred (or should be) for malfeasance. You might want to consider a Trust company as your POA/executor if you do not have a specific individual in mind. Maybe Twa2w and/or George H will tune in here, but I think a Trust company may have more regulatory oversight than a provincial bar association has over a lawyer (which I understand does not act unless a complaint is filed).

Having co-executors adds a large measure of complexity (and cost) to POA and Estate Administration matters since both parties must co-sign off on all matters. You might be better off naming one executor, and then an alternate if the primary executor declines to (or does not) act on your behalf.
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by brucecohen »

Based on info provided you're probably best off hiring a trust company. All of the big banks own trustcos and there are still several small independents. Here is a google search with lots of hits. Your easiest first step would be to have your current bank branch refer you to one of the advisers salespeople from their trust company.
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by kumquat »

Hopetoretire wrote:Thank you. Any idea of fees? I read that wills are about $250 for a single adult - is this average in Toronto?
No idea about costs in GTA. We just had new wills, POA and health care proxies done by a Sk. lawyer. $750 plus tax for a couple.
I don't intend to offend anyone, that part is just a bonus.

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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

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If I use a trust company, do I still need an attorney? If the trust company is a bank, do all my assets have to be with them, and also would they have the discretion to invest the funds in their own institution (e.g. on maturity of my GIC's, invest the monies into high MER mutual funds)? I'm wondering how objective or impartial their decisions will be and how I can control this from "beyond the grave". Asking before I contact them for their perspective (obviously it's a business for them).
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by AltaRed »

Trust companies would/should operate independently of their sibling banks and the trustee has to add prudently with the investments but I think there is a lot of room to run in. Twa2w is way more knowledgeable in this area.
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by twa2w »

Hopetoretire wrote:If I use a trust company, do I still need an attorney? If the trust company is a bank, do all my assets have to be with them, and also would they have the discretion to invest the funds in their own institution (e.g. on maturity of my GIC's, invest the monies into high MER mutual funds)? I'm wondering how objective or impartial their decisions will be and how I can control this from "beyond the grave". Asking before I contact them for their perspective (obviously it's a business for them).
If you decide to use a trust company as POA and executor, you will still need a lawyer to draft the wills etc. Consult with the trust company first as they will have some specific wording they will want in the will in order to act. Some trust companies may also help you plan the will and the content but will refer you to a lawyer ( can be of your choosing) to actually write up and execute the documents. Other companies are more lax.
The advantage to using a trustco is they will be impartial and will survive you. Your attorney or tax acctant may predecease or retire etcetc.
Note thst trust companies usually have a minimum size of estate to make it worthwhile to use them and they may refuse a small estate. They will all have a sliding scale of fees that you can look at but I would think they would be very competitive with an attorney or accountant.
Some will discount their fees if you have your business with them or a subsidiary like a discount broker. But your business does not have to be with them.
If they are going to be your POA in the event of incapacity, they may be managing your assets possibly for some time. They would normally move business in house to simply management and reduce costs but this can be discussed ahead of time and they would adhere to your instructions. There are rules around what a trustee or poa can invest in but this depends on the province. No they do not use the banks high MER funds. The larger trusts will have pools or invest in individual stocks. Fixed income would be gov bonds or gics.
The rules have changed in the last number of years depending on province but for example in Ontario, there used to be a ' prudent man' rule. What would a prudent man do when making a decision? And this governed exevutors and trustees decidion making. At one time a trust could not invest in ETFs, mutual funds etc. They could buy stocks but only of companies that paid a dividend for at least 10 years. Goverment bonds were allowed but not corporate or gics.
This of course changed some time ago as it was not reasonable for small trusts and uninformed non professional trustees etc.
But you will likely find that trust companies still pretty conservative and cost consious when it comes to managing client funds.
I would recommend talking to several.
Royal trust, Scotia, TD would be first on the list with perhaps concentra trust ( credit union).
Pick the one you feel comfortable with or that is affiliated with your bank.
Most of the independant trust Co don't have the depth in estates that the big ones do.
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

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Thank you for the clarifications, looks like a trustco is the way to go. Estate is probably okay size for now, but may be eroded over the years after my retirement. Do they charge any setup fees before having to execute or only on execution? And I have several insurance products which have my parents as direct beneficiaries. Will the trustco manage these proceeds on their behalf? As I don't want immediate contest from family members, am planning to ask the funeral home (notified by doctor or coroner) to trigger the trustco activities. Would this work?

Wow, what a morbid topic - but hey the future's unpredictable and I'd rather face it with good preparations ...
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by twa2w »

Hopetoretire wrote:Thank you for the clarifications, looks like a trustco is the way to go. Estate is probably okay size for now, but may be eroded over the years after my retirement. Do they charge any setup fees before having to execute or only on execution? And I have several insurance products which have my parents as direct beneficiaries. Will the trustco manage these proceeds on their behalf? As I don't want immediate contest from family members, am planning to ask the funeral home (notified by doctor or coroner) to trigger the trustco activities. Would this work?

Wow, what a morbid topic - but hey the future's unpredictable and I'd rather face it with good preparations ...
I have been away from this for some time but AFAIK there should be no fees until the trust company takes on duties as POA or executorship.
If you have insurance with direct beneficiaries, the insurance companies will pay these directly to the beneficiaries. the executor would not be involved.
If you were concerned about your parents capacity or the fact the money may be subsequently passed on to someone you did not want it to, then you could change the beneficiary to your estate and direct the trustee how you want the money handled. This might be as simple as providing a monthly amount to your parents while alive then on to capital beneficiaries.
A charitable remainder trust would also work depending on your intentions.
You hit on one challenge for corporate executor in that they may not find out in a timely manner that you are deceased. ( sometimes not til after the funeral)
This can be handled several ways.
For POA and POA for personal care, you can provide your family doctor or a trusted friend with copies so they can be acted on if need be and the proper people notified.
For executorship, if you have prepaid funeral arrangements, you can provide the director with a copy of the will and location of original or the contact info of someone who has the info.
You may also make it clear to family members that you have a will etc and it is held at xyz trust and they should be contacted if anything happens to you. Beyond that they do not need to know any particulars.
Usually the worst that happens is some family members have access to your living quarters and may help themselves to some personal items before the executor is notified and steps in.
As soon as notified a corporate executor changes locks and starts an inventory and notifies banks etc.
Planning estates for every eventuality can get pretty complicated so my advice is to keep it as simple as possible. In the end, this keeps costs down and usually avoids unintended consequences.
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by Hopetoretire »

Thank you, thank you! This is a great checklist for me - better than all the sites I've been searching (banks and attorney sites give enough info just to draw you in to contact them - one download and I get emails right away on their services).

So much appreciated - I know where to start, and to put a framework together.
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by jasdlc »

+1
Hopetoretire
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by Hopetoretire »

Parents are losing decision making capabilities and would have to go to a LTC home which would get paid by the trustco. I'm imagining this could go above the normal 5% fee, but that is okay. Would I also nominate the beneficiary of my annuities to be my estate? As far as I'm concerned, the greedy relatives can come raid my home as I live quite frugally and they're for sure more affluent than us (but more greedy nonetheless).
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by Davis »

Spouse and i just got a bill for $750+tax for two wills, POAs, living wills, from a downtown Toronto lawyer. I was not impressed by the service (he ignored the deadline he had set for himself, and left it to me to follow up, and then did the same thing a second time). Our wills were pretty straightforward, and s lot of boiler plate stuff. I have seen $199 per will elsewhere, and even $99 at Axxess law firm, who often operate in Wal-Mart stores. I understand that their lawyers use a "wizard" to generate a will.

I don't know what extra I got for paying full price of these. I don't think I would again.
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by AltaRed »

Hopetoretire wrote:Parents are losing decision making capabilities and would have to go to a LTC home which would get paid by the trustco. I'm imagining this could go above the normal 5% fee, but that is okay. Would I also nominate the beneficiary of my annuities to be my estate?
If you want the remaining guaranteed term of your annuities managed by the trustco, yes, you would name the estate as the beneficiary. Naming anyone else as a beneficiary gives that beneficiary full control to do with what he/she/they like with the funds once received.
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by Hopetoretire »

Contacted said lady M 1.5 weeks ago on email specifying my requirements and asking for a estimated fee. Guess it's not in their usual practice to respond to emails? What is the normal process to procure the services of an attorney - initial contact and determination of competency/fees? Any advice please, or does one have to "commit" to a lawyer to get a response? I thought it was like evaluating a management consultant for a project but I guess I got this wrong.
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by twa2w »

Lawyers tend to be inundated with emails and phone messages from clients and they often just don't have the time to respond so they are selective in who they respond to.
They often do not want to quote fees, other than an hourly rate, because there can be huge differences in one situation to another. Even with wills there can be a huge difference in how long it takes to set up.
I would call the lawyers office, say you were referred by an existing client. Advise the receptionist you want will, poa, poapc for yourself and spouse. Explain roughly the complexity and thst wills will be a mirror of each other if they are.
The receptionist will usually give you a ball park figure.
Base price for a spousal pair of wills poa poapc for a simple estate is usually about 550 to 750 for a small law firm or practitioner. Complexity with trusts can drive that up to 5 figures but I doubt that is your situation.
The more prepared you are going in, the easier it is for the lawyers.
Full birth name and any aliases or nick names, dob, id, addresses, list of assets liabilities, any previous marriages with dates and copies of separation agreements.
Names of any children with dates of birth.
Full names of executors with addresses etc, full names of any beneficiaries and alternates.
Notes and explanations as to why leaving certain people out or in the will.
Full and proper names of any charities. Note the Canadian cancer society could mean the National body, provincial or local chapter. Same with churches. Be specific and have alternatives.

You could check local seniors publications. They often have ads for solicitors who specialize in wills and estates. Some of these will come to you for initial consult, email you a draft. Once agreed on they will attend your house for signing but you will have to have a couple of neighbours or friends on standby to witness. Others will have you attend their office.
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by kcowan »

Even our lawyer of record will not respond to email queries. He figures we will call if it is really important and he is right.

Same with our estate lawyer in Toronto. I guess they have their tire-kicker filter.
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Re: Recommend wills/estate attorney near Toronto/Markham?

Post by Hopetoretire »

Thanks for the guidance. I called RBC Trust and they were very helpful, and will post me an info pack with templates for completion. They also had a list of lawyers that they recommend, and read out to me the contents of the documentation required. Looks like I have a lot of preparation to do before meeting with them and legal.
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