Power of Attorney - Financial/Brokerage Accounts

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BRIAN5000
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Power of Attorney - Financial/Brokerage Accounts

Post by BRIAN5000 »

Split from TDWaterhouse - New Topic Content
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Posted here because we are with TDW

Checked our beneficiaries and Successors for our RRSP's and TFSA's at TDW both were non-existent so we had to do the paperwork to update them.


At the same time we tried to do POA's on their paperwork. I talked to a Rep and he said it was ok to put what we did but they came back saying we couldn't do that, any opinions?

What we wanted, the wife to have POA on my accounts and myself to have it on hers except that if either one of us died daughter would have POA on that account.

Example - His, wife is written in as POA upon her death daughter. Hers, the husband has POA upon his death daughter.

Traveling together and in a crash, one killed one unable to act because badly injured was what we were thinking?
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AltaRed
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Re: TD Direct Investing (was Waterhouse) Service

Post by AltaRed »

I've never seen a financial POA with an alternate listed. In my case, my POA is someone who is unlikely to ever be with me when I die in a plane or auto crash. It's a reason not to have a spouse as a financial POA (especially).

Corrected/Added: I have 2 POAs in which either can act on my behalf.
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DavidR
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Re: TD Direct Investing (was Waterhouse) Service

Post by DavidR »

BRIAN5000 wrote: What we wanted, the wife to have POA on my accounts and myself to have it on hers except that if either one of us died daughter would have POA on that account.

Example - His, wife is written in as POA upon her death daughter. Hers, the husband has POA upon his death daughter.

Traveling together and in a crash, one killed one unable to act because badly injured was what we were thinking?
> Which account is 'that'?

#1. If Brian dies, then no-one can exercise a PoA on Brian's account because there is no Brian's account. (His estate, or his beneficiary/successor has an account, but not 'Brian')

#2. Wife unable to act on her own investments due to her injuries. Her PoA names Brian first, but if Brian is deceased, you want daughter to exercise PoA over wife's account. (ISTM this ought to be doable.)

Which one is TDDI saying that you can't do? #1 or #2 or both?
Are they understanding your intentions properly? Are there other errors in the forms that are causing them to reject them?
Better ask them to explain why...
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DavidR
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Re: TD Direct Investing (was Waterhouse) Service

Post by DavidR »

AltaRed wrote:I've never seen a financial POA with an alternate listed. In my case, my POA is someone who is unlikely to ever be with me when I die in a plane or auto crash. It's a reason not to have a spouse as a financial POA (especially).
I have.
My Father signed a PoA naming my mother as Attorney, but if she predeceased him (or was unable to act), then my brother was Attorney. Mother and father died two years apart (mom first), of old age. By that time my father was incapable of managing his own financial matters. Listing an alternate had been recommended by their lawyer.
(There were back-up executors named in the wills too.)
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AltaRed
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Re: TD Direct Investing (was Waterhouse) Service

Post by AltaRed »

I do have alternate (backup) executors in my Will.

Just checked my most recent POA and I stand corrected. It has 2 people named as either/or, or the survivor of them, so I imagine it could be written up as a primary, with an alternate if the primary has deceased or is unable to act....
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BRIAN5000
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Re: TD Direct Investing (was Waterhouse) Service

Post by BRIAN5000 »

> Which account is 'that'?
With TDW you have an account number followed by letters A,B,C,D, J,K etc. want them to have PoA on all my accounts and myself on wifes whereas I will have PoA on only my daughters TFSA , J & K IIRC.
#1. If Brian dies, then no-one can exercise a PoA on Brian's account because there is no Brian's account. (His estate, or his beneficiary/successor has an account, but not 'Brian')
Yes you are correct.
#2. Wife unable to act on her own investments due to her injuries. Her PoA names Brian first, but if Brian is deceased, you want daughter to exercise PoA over wife's account. (ISTM this ought to be doable.)
This is the one they are saying you can not have a contingency. I have only talked to a phone Rep so far, Rep we filled out the forms with has not called to acknowledge there is a problem yet, I'm just getting prepared.

We were Canada Trust customers so this could be why beneficiaries were not showing at TDW, a phone call is a quick check.
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Re: TD Direct Investing (was Waterhouse) Service

Post by AltaRed »

BRIAN5000 wrote:We were Canada Trust customers so this could be why beneficiaries were not showing at TDW, a phone call is a quick check.
I would think FI POA forms are company specific, if not account specific. Canada Trust is not the same company as TDW.

FWIW, I've never considered individual FI POA forms. I've always used POAs drawn up by my Estate lawyer that can apply to every 'use' in Canada (at least). From other threads on FWF, I understand some FIs push back wanting their own POA done, but they cannot refuse a legally binding POA generated in the province of residence and I understand FI Legal Depts have had to back pedal whcn challenged on this.

That said, it is likely less hassle to fill out specific FI POA's to readily access accounts. The challenge is to remember (document) what one has done with each institution :shock:
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Re: TD Direct Investing (was Waterhouse) Service

Post by BRIAN5000 »

I would think FI POA forms are company specific, if not account specific. Canada Trust is not the same company as TDW.
Yeah sorry, two or three things going on here. We were clients of Canada Trust before they were taken over by TDW. It looks like to me they didn't carry our designations for three RRSP's over to TDW.

I'm pretty sure I/we made designations when we opened TFSA's at TDW but something I sort of remember you could not make a successor designation with them at that time. It's an easy check for anybody to make sure what they have on file at least verbally, I will find paperwork eventually.

We never had PoA's at Canada Trust these are new things we are just putting in place now. I thought it would be easier to use their forms to start with and let the lawyer decide how to deal with the total situation when we see him.
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Re: TD Direct Investing (was Waterhouse) Service

Post by kcowan »

This has been discussed before. Best to have your POAs drawn up by your lawyer. A bank form cannot handle your contingencies.

Get the lawyer to do it and then have him/her take on the bank as needed. Just make sure you have named beneficiaries for all registered accounts and life policies.
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Re: Power of Attorney - Financial/Brokerage Accounts

Post by cannew »

Make sure they are Enduring POA's and yes there can be alternate's. We had ours drawn up years ago, naming each other, however they were intended to come into effect only if and when one of us were deemed unable to manage our affairs. They also required two doctors to certify the person incapable. A plain POA would cease to apply if one became incapable. Yea, go to a lawyer.
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Re: Power of Attorney - Financial/Brokerage Accounts

Post by 8Toretirement »

BRIAN5000 wrote:Split from TDWaterhouse - New Topic Content
ModeratorW


Posted here because we are with TDW

Checked our beneficiaries and Successors for our RRSP's and TFSA's at TDW both were non-existent so we had to do the paperwork to update them.


At the same time we tried to do POA's on their paperwork. I talked to a Rep and he said it was ok to put what we did but they came back saying we couldn't do that, any opinions?

What we wanted, the wife to have POA on my accounts and myself to have it on hers except that if either one of us died daughter would have POA on that account.

Example - His, wife is written in as POA upon her death daughter. Hers, the husband has POA upon his death daughter.

Traveling together and in a crash, one killed one unable to act because badly injured was what we were thinking?
We structured our accounts so my wife and I have full control of all funds except registered funds, however, we still have access to the accounts to make changes to each others portfolio. If one of us dies all registered funds, pensions, house, assets of any kind are willed to the other.

If both of us are unable to conduct our own business, confirmed through our family doctors written confirmation, then the eldest child has POA to act on our behalf.

Structuring a will needs to be specific as a problem you can run into by not willing to each other is an executor can have control of assets from a deceased spouse depriving the surviving spouse of these assets. This may not be what is intended.

If assets are complicated or extensive seeking lawyer advise may be preferable to ensure the will and POA is executed as intended.
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Re: TD Direct Investing (was Waterhouse) Service

Post by 8Toretirement »

kcowan wrote: Get the lawyer to do it and then have him/her take on the bank as needed. Just make sure you have named beneficiaries for all registered accounts and life policies.
Quite an important point,

This could cause a major issue, especially if one or both spouses have been married before and have kids.

If registered accounts and insurance policies name the estate as the beneficiary, as can happen when dealing with banks, a series of unintended consequences could occur, such as having an executor take control of the estate funds, and dispersing funds through consanguinity (the deceased spouse's blood relations).
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