TFSA returns to date

Preparing for life after work. RRSPs, RRIFs, TFSAs, annuities and meeting future financial and psychological needs.
Thegipper
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TFSA returns to date

Post by Thegipper »

Both my spouse and myself have contributed the maximum annual amount to our TFSA since day 1. Mine has a total of 81k and her account has a total of 74k. We have basically purchased solid little small caps that pay solid dividends and have good metrics and growth. We each have abut 12k in corporate bonds. I figure we can continue to contribute for 2 more years at which time we should have close to 200k combined. Would be curious how others have made out. I haven't made a million but I am satisfied with our results to date. I am always looking for the small caps with good metrics. Savaria, MTY, MAL,CAO and AD on on my list this year. I have avoided any commodity or energy stocks. If you have made a million please keep it to yourself CRA may be monitoring.
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Re: TFSA returns to date

Post by lacrosse905 »

we are a little bit behind you.....mine 73K...dh 62.5K, mostly large caps, banks, pipelines, sold off energy earlier this year.
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Re: TFSA returns to date

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lacrosse905 wrote:we are a little bit behind you.....mine 73K...dh 62.5K, mostly large caps, banks, pipelines, sold off energy earlier this year.
My theory is that quality dividend paying small caps will do better in this type of account. They have better valuations and aren't followed by the institutional investors. The only energy stock that held was interpipe . I sold it when oil prices started to collapse. For some strange reason pipelines were being treated like oil and gas companies. May-be ETFs have something to do with this.
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Re: TFSA returns to date

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Maxed deposits each year from annual RRIF mandatory withdrawals. As at Friday last wife's at $85K and mine at 94K, hers mainly in pipelines and mine in REITs - we're buy n' holders ! Having said that I got a bit twitchy and traded my pipeline holding for a REIT. Had I left well enough alone my current value would have exceeded the 100K mark some time ago.
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Re: TFSA returns to date

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j831robert wrote:Maxed deposits each year from annual RRIF mandatory withdrawals. As at Friday last wife's at $85K and mine at 94K, hers mainly in pipelines and mine in REITs - we're buy n' holders ! Having said that I got a bit twitchy and traded my pipeline holding for a REIT. Had I left well enough alone my current value would have exceeded the 100K mark some time ago.
MY mistake was buying corporate bonds about 24 k combined. Most of that was in 2009/2010. If I had invested in stocks and had similar stock returns I would had expected about 10k more. You have done quite well.Two more years will give us something in excess of 200k. I will be 73 and figure on withdrawing about 20k per year to supplement our retirement.
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Re: TFSA returns to date

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Thegipper" I meant earlier to thank you for introducing the query - always interesting to see how one fits into the greater picture. I am sure that there are others here who play the TFSA system as day-traders and may have had some 'interesting times and totals along the way but not my style at 84yrs!
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Re: TFSA returns to date

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j831robert wrote:Thegipper" I meant earlier to thank you for introducing the query - always interesting to see how one fits into the greater picture. I am sure that there are others here who play the TFSA system as day-traders and may have had some 'interesting times and totals along the way but not my style at 84yrs!
Good to see that you are active . I figure investing and stock picking is a good hobby for retired people. It certainly hasn't hurt Buffet and Munger.
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Re: TFSA returns to date

Post by slim »

A very good thread idea! Thanks
My TFSA is only 57,000 my wife, 62,000.
I didn't pay too much attention, although I contributed maximums, about 25% is cash, and I lost lots on BTE.
Now I realize the TFSA is a VERY important investment vehicle, I have to give a lot of credit to Prime Minister Harper for starting this, I have 3 children and I think this may be a way that people have a chance to achieve some financial security, and therefore financial dignity, safe from the incessant tax grabs of the governments. (That is..those that don't have the government/ union goldmines)
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Re: TFSA returns to date

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Approx. 55K each. Started in mid 2010 with Canadian residency. We use TFSAs as part of our income and withdraw the dividends every month (which can now be done online without the annoying phone call being necessary). Put only the highest paying dividend stocks inside. Will continue with this as every year almost another $1000 of income can be protected from the CRA. This gives some consistency to taxes as increases in dividends in the taxable account are somewhat offset by the TFSA.

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Re: TFSA returns to date

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I have been focused on dividend returns for our TFSA's, and I am sure others have done the same....so I am also interested in how others have done in this regard. At the monent the return in dollars is $ 6930.00 per year, that we reinvest.
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Re: TFSA returns to date

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lacrosse905 wrote:I have been focused on dividend returns for our TFSA's, and I am sure others have done the same....so I am also interested in how others have done in this regard. At the monent the return in dollars is $ 6930.00 per year, that we reinvest.
I generally have dividend payers but's it's not my prime focus. I have stocks like CGI which doesn't pay anything. Our combined interest and dividend payments are in the region of $4800 and I retain in the account and reinvest it.
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Re: TFSA returns to date

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2 yen wrote:We use TFSAs as part of our income and withdraw the dividends every month (which can now be done online without the annoying phone call being necessary).
Isn't withdrawing the dividends every month some kind of mental accounting? As long as you're in a net contribution position on a yearly basis, how does it make a difference to withdraw, say, $200 per month, which would increase the contribution limit by $2,400 come next January, then contributing in January $5,500 + $2,400?
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Re: TFSA returns to date

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adrian2 wrote:
2 yen wrote:We use TFSAs as part of our income and withdraw the dividends every month (which can now be done online without the annoying phone call being necessary).
Isn't withdrawing the dividends every month some kind of mental accounting? As long as you're in a net contribution position on a yearly basis, how does it make a difference to withdraw, say, $200 per month, which would increase the contribution limit by $2,400 come next January, then contributing in January $5,500 + $2,400?
Yeah. Maybe so. This system works for us (all dividends are paid monthly). Steadily increasing TFSA dividend stream while, over time, reducing the number of shares in the taxable account. Next January, we expect to transfer about 17K of shares.

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Re: TFSA returns to date

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Both wife and I have the our TFSA investments DRIP'd resulting in an increase in number of units each month upon which the cash value of the DRIP also increases . It's a fun game as long as your aim is pure accumulation (and your selection of investments remains healthy).
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Re: TFSA returns to date

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j831robert wrote:Both wife and I have the our TFSA investments DRIP'd resulting in an increase in number of units each month upon which the cash value of the DRIP also increases . It's a fun game as long as your aim is pure accumulation (and your selection of investments remains healthy).
I would advise all millennials to do the same. It really is a gift for that generation.

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Re: TFSA returns to date

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2 yen wrote:Yeah. Maybe so. This system works for us (all dividends are paid monthly). Steadily increasing TFSA dividend stream while, over time, reducing the number of shares in the taxable account. Next January, we expect to transfer about 17K of shares.
So really for all the work you have to do to keep track of contribution room, you potentially save the cost of two $10 commissions, ie. selling some shares in taxable to meet income needs, while buying some shares from the cash flow in the TFSA?

On the primary theme of this thread, and like some others here, I am shifting my TFSA strategy from one of conservative income investments to more equity exposure and in my case, specifically REITs. In two years, the last of my GICs in the TFSA will have matured. I have no hankering for managing riskier mid and small cap stocks, nor specifically growth stocks. Just not interested. The TFSA will likely be a legacy, whatever size it is, when I expire.
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Re: TFSA returns to date

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AltaRed wrote:
2 yen wrote:Yeah. Maybe so. This system works for us (all dividends are paid monthly). Steadily increasing TFSA dividend stream while, over time, reducing the number of shares in the taxable account. Next January, we expect to transfer about 17K of shares.
So really for all the work you have to do to keep track of contribution room, you potentially save the cost of two $10 commissions, ie. selling some shares in taxable to meet income needs, while buying some shares from the cash flow in the TFSA?

On the primary theme of this thread, and like some others here, I am shifting my TFSA strategy from one of conservative income investments to more equity exposure and in my case, specifically REITs. In two years, the last of my GICs in the TFSA will have matured. I have no hankering for managing riskier mid and small cap stocks, nor specifically growth stocks. Just not interested. The TFSA will likely be a legacy, whatever size it is, when I expire.
Thankfully, the CRA keeps track of contribution room, viewable under 'My Account'. I guess I've always had an allergy to selling dividend paying stock, so that might explain why just doing it the way outlined above works well for us. That said, taxes must be paid on stock gains with in-kind transfers - and losses are of no benefit against other capital gains. That might be a consideration for people who have a different mix of stocks than us. We only hold dividend paying stock and the high yielders don't appreciate much.

Which REIT's are you interested in for the TFSA and does the rate of return of capital influence your choice?

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Re: TFSA returns to date

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2 yen wrote:Which REIT's are you interested in for the TFSA and does the rate of return of capital influence your choice?
I like the residential and industrial REITs specifically. Already have BEI.UN in TFSA. Have alerts out on CSH.UN and CAR.UN but both have moved out of my comfort zone for buys. Will likely move AAR.UN in from my taxable account soon since it does not have a lot of cap gains so far. I like to target minimum $25k in individual holdings, so it will take awhile to get full allocations of 3-4 REITs in the TFSA.

Rate of return is obviously of some interest, but I am more interested in conservative payouts on decent cap rates (yields). If I get both of the latter, total rate of return speaks for itself. Amount of ROC is of no particular interest.,...simply means DD&A (CCA) is high(er).

P.S. I am a long term holder of REI.UN as well but it has a lot of cap gains in a taxable account and will stay there. I believe in that one as well as it re-develops its huge strip mall land holdings into mixed use....the wave of the future in big cities.
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Re: TFSA returns to date

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AltaRed wrote:On the primary theme of this thread, and like some others here, I am shifting my TFSA strategy from one of conservative income investments to more equity exposure and in my case, specifically REITs. In two years, the last of my GICs in the TFSA will have matured.
My TFSA is all GIC's. I don't see the benefit of swapping that for equities, as those displaced GIC's will have to then reside in a taxable account.

If I look at the capital limits of the TFSA and say, if my TFSA can hold $50000, then what will my after tax advantage be if I put dividends or interest investments in it.

Here's a quick example. If I had two taxable accounts and each had $50000 in it, and one account held all dividend stock producing 3.5% dividends and the other account held all GIC's producing 2.25% interest, and I offered you the possibility of converting one of those accounts to a TFSA - which would you choose? It seems the accepted answer is the equities.

The $50000 dividend account produces $1750 income, less taxes of $455 (@ 26%), leaves $1295 after taxes.
The $50000 interest account produces $1125 income, less taxes of $483 (@ 43%), leaves $642 after taxes.

If I shelter the GIC's, my after tax income will be $1125 + $1295 = $2420
If I shelter the divs, my after tax income will be $1750 + $642 = $2392

So it's a bit of a wash, but wouldn't it be better to shelter the GIC's since you would also retain the ability to claim capital loses on the dividend stock. I suppose REITs maybe different, but most here at FWF seem to say it's a slam dunk that you put equities into the TFSA?

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Re: TFSA returns to date

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like_to_retire wrote:
AltaRed wrote:On the primary theme of this thread, and like some others here, I am shifting my TFSA strategy from one of conservative income investments to more equity exposure and in my case, specifically REITs. In two years, the last of my GICs in the TFSA will have matured.
My TFSA is all GIC's. I don't see the benefit of swapping that for equities, as those displaced GIC's will have to then reside in a taxable account.

If I look at the capital limits of the TFSA and say, if my TFSA can hold $50000, then what will my after tax advantage be if I put dividends or interest investments in it.

Here's a quick example. If I had two taxable accounts and each had $50000 in it, and one account held all dividend stock producing 3.5% dividends and the other account held all GIC's producing 2.25% interest, and I offered you the possibility of converting one of those accounts to a TFSA - which would you choose? It seems the accepted answer is the equities.

The $50000 dividend account produces $1750 income, less taxes of $455 (@ 26%), leaves $1295 after taxes.
The $50000 interest account produces $1125 income, less taxes of $483 (@ 43%), leaves $642 after taxes.

If I shelter the GIC's, my after tax income will be $1125 + $1295 = $2420
If I shelter the divs, my after tax income will be $1750 + $642 = $2392

So it's a bit of a wash, but wouldn't it be better to shelter the GIC's since you would also retain the ability to claim capital loses on the dividend stock. I suppose REITs maybe different, but most here at FWF seem to say it's a slam dunk that you put equities into the TFSA?

ltr
My capital gains have been larger then my dividend gains. You don't get any capital gain with GICs. Further more the TFSA frees up all the tracking and record keeping if outside a TFSA. How much in total have you accumulated in your TFSA from inception?
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Re: TFSA returns to date

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Thegipper wrote:My capital gains have been larger then my dividend gains.
I wonder if you had experienced capital loss instead of those gains if you would still be happy. I use capital loses every year to offset gains so that I don't pay tax on capital. Assuming only gains in a TFSA, is it not a risk since you can't use loses to your advantage?
Thegipper wrote:Further more the TFSA frees up all the tracking and record keeping if outside a TFSA
That's a good point, but the TFSA is small compared to the entire portfolio, so I would still have lots to keep track of in the taxable account. A little more or less wouldn't be significant.
Thegipper wrote:How much in total have you accumulated in your TFSA from inception?
I have always kept GIC's in it, so it's only the amount that they have allowed us to deposit, plus compounded 2.x %.

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Re: TFSA returns to date

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like_to_retire wrote:
Thegipper wrote:My capital gains have been larger then my dividend gains.
I wonder if you had experienced capital loss instead of those gains if you would still be happy. I use capital loses every year to offset gains so that I don't pay tax on capital. Assuming only gains in a TFSA, is it not a risk since you can't use loses to your advantage?
I agree the song wouldn't be sung nearly as loudly if there were significant capital losses in the TFSA. That is the risk and tradeoff of course. To each their own.
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Re: TFSA returns to date

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AltaRed wrote:
2 yen wrote:Which REIT's are you interested in for the TFSA and does the rate of return of capital influence your choice?
I like the residential and industrial REITs specifically. Already have BEI.UN in TFSA. Have alerts out on CSH.UN and CAR.UN but both have moved out of my comfort zone for buys. Will likely move AAR.UN in from my taxable account soon since it does not have a lot of cap gains so far. I like to target minimum $25k in individual holdings, so it will take awhile to get full allocations of 3-4 REITs in the TFSA.

Rate of return is obviously of some interest, but I am more interested in conservative payouts on decent cap rates (yields). If I get both of the latter, total rate of return speaks for itself. Amount of ROC is of no particular interest.,...simply means DD&A (CCA) is high(er).

P.S. I am a long term holder of REI.UN as well but it has a lot of cap gains in a taxable account and will stay there. I believe in that one as well as it re-develops its huge strip mall land holdings into mixed use....the wave of the future in big cities.
Interesting. Thanks!

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Re: TFSA returns to date

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AltaRed wrote:
like_to_retire wrote:
Thegipper wrote:My capital gains have been larger then my dividend gains.
I wonder if you had experienced capital loss instead of those gains if you would still be happy. I use capital loses every year to offset gains so that I don't pay tax on capital. Assuming only gains in a TFSA, is it not a risk since you can't use loses to your advantage?
I agree the song wouldn't be sung nearly as loudly if there were significant capital losses in the TFSA. That is the risk and tradeoff of course. To each their own.
Stocks over the longer haul gives you the best return. Your right each to their own. I guess GIC TFSA account might be a good option if one had a fairly large taxable account. Keep your fixed income in the TFSA and your stock investments in the taxable account. I approach it a little differently. Keep my fixed income in my RRIF [RRSP] and my stocks in my taxable account and TFSA.
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Re: TFSA returns to date

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I use the TFSA as a trading account. A maximum of 10 positions at any one time.
It is not a day trading account unless the position goes violently against me on day one.
Last year I made 14 trades 10 losers and 4 stocks I still hold. Portfolio value increased 24%
This year so far, thanks to having a position in INN.un I’m up over 25%.
Total value of TFSA is in excess of 150K.
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