How Much is Enough 2015

Preparing for life after work. RRSPs, RRIFs, TFSAs, annuities and meeting future financial and psychological needs.
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Springbok
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How Much is Enough 2015

Post by Springbok »

Seems things have changed, at least in USA:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/million ... -1.3065465
In fact, according to UBS Investor Services, most of the millionaires responding to a survey say their life has them "stuck on a treadmill they can't get off" just to maintain their current standard of living.

In fact, it's not until they're worth $5 million or more that most believe they have enough to feel financially secure.
I may have to go back to work :(
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by SQRT »

We have had this discussion many times. Really want to get into it again?
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

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For those of us that have allowed our wants and desires to grow into our resources, the answer to the question: "How much do I need?" will always be :"More!" For those of us who have seized control over our wants and desires, the answer to the same question can be: "Surprisingly little!"
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

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StuBee wrote:For those of us that have allowed our wants and desires to grow into our resources, the answer to the question: "How much do I need?" will always be :"More!" For those of us who have seized control over our wants and desires, the answer to the same question can be: "Surprisingly little!"
Here we go.
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

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SQRT wrote:We have had this discussion many times. Really want to get into it again?
You mean I don't really have to go back to work? Whew!
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by scomac »

StuBee wrote:For those of us that have allowed our wants and desires to grow into our resources, the answer to the question: "How much do I need?" will always be :"More!" For those of us who have seized control over our wants and desires, the answer to the same question can be: "Surprisingly little!"
It never ceases to amaze me how much some folks earn that can't seem to make ends meet. Invariably, these people earn far more than I ever did in my "working" years. We live very well and we don't have to scrimp and save to do so. I guess our expectations are considerably less than others or else we've learned how to waste less. :?
"On what principle is it, that when we see nothing but improvement behind us, we are to expect nothing but deterioration before us?"
Thomas Babington Macaulay in 1830
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by SQRT »

These threads always end up being morality discussions revolving around LBYM and spending levels. Ie about how much to spend rather than how much to save. Been there done that.
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by Davis »

SQRT, it is interesting that you are so determined to let us know that you don't want to discuss this topic. You,'ve now posted three times on it. Have you considered just ignoring the thread and letting those who want to have a new discussion on it do so?
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by kcowan »

Davis
I think it is a desire to keep this forum open to various people of all earnings classes. While everyone can relate to someone who lives on $30k/year, some people here express disdain for people for people that decide to live on more, even though they LBYM.

(If I was earning $400k and now live on $150K, as long as it is below my SWR earnings in retirement, I am good! And I have resisted the temptations to buy a yacht, land cruiser, McMansions, et al. And by avoiding purchasing those non-income-producing assets, I give all my OAS back to people that maybe need it!)
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by Springbok »

When things are booming and credit is freely available, people can live a life of luxury with toys. To maintain that lifestyle, some may actually think they need the $5Million mentioned in the first post. And if they haven't built that kind of savings, they just have to adjust their lifestyle.

I met a middle aged couple who had moved to SC from mid western city. They bought a very nice waterfront condo. Prior to this the husband had been CEO of a company he had started and had taken public. I guess things had not worked out and he was now unemployed (but not retired). They downsized by buying a $600k condo that has $950/month HOA fees plus taxes etc. Previously they had had the executive income, big home, multiple cars etc. The family had adjusted well and his wife said she was quite happy living in a 3 bedroom condo instead of the large home she had previously enjoyed. Daughter was just starting high school and had made new friends and seemed quite happy. Husband however, seemed to be at a bit of a loose end.

But at least they had moved away from environment where they would have felt like poor cousins. By SC standards, they were now among the well-off!

It's one of the benefits of living in a semi-rural and small town area as we do. The well off don't flaunt their wealth if they want to fit in.
Last edited by Springbok on 09 May 2015 13:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by Spidey »

Allain De Botton touches on this subject in several of his documentaries and considers such strive for status as a measure of low self-esteem or vulnerability.
The next time you see someone driving a Ferrari don't think this is someone who is greedy. Instead think of this as someone who is incredibly vulnerable and in need of love.
If life seems jolly rotten, then there's something you've forgotten -- and that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing. - Eric Idle
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by SQRT »

Davis wrote:SQRT, it is interesting that you are so determined to let us know that you don't want to discuss this topic. You,'ve now posted three times on it. Have you considered just ignoring the thread and letting those who want to have a new discussion on it do so?
I have discussed this topic several times. Always ends badly.
Last edited by SQRT on 10 May 2015 02:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by kcowan »

The same speaker also talks about Atheism 2.0

Very interesting speaker.
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by zinfit »

With CPP,OAS and a small pension we have about 70 k per year. We have around 850k in RRSPs, TFSA and taxable accounts.I have taking about 45k from that per year. I figure we have about 8.5 k after tax per month. We live quite well on that amount of money.
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by Flaccidsteele »

Individuals soothe their insecurities in a wide variety of ways. With money, possessions, career, fitness, their choice of spouse, staying "fiercely independent" in their house, through their children, ad infinitum.

Breaking news at 6:00PM!

"Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it."
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by Flaccidsteele »

kcowan wrote:The same speaker also talks about Atheism 2.0
Interesting videos.

It's almost like these discussions have been happening for centuries...like humans have biases ;)

Study: Religious people are terrified and mistrustful of atheists due to fears of death

Humans instinctively search for ways of "mitigating the potential terror arising from the uniquely human awareness of death," writes a research team led by psychologist Corey Cook of the University of Washington-Tacoma. Atheists "pose a fundamental threat" to the belief systems that perform this vital function.

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-wh ... sts-2015-5

PS: Apologies for going OT.
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by Davis »

kcowan wrote:Davis
I think it is a desire to keep this forum open to various people of all earnings classes. While everyone can relate to someone who lives on $30k/year, some people here express disdain for people for people that decide to live on more, even though they LBYM. (If I was earning $400k and now live on $150K, as long as it is below my SWR earnings in retirement, I am good!
Ken, the point that I was making is that not every thread has to appeal to every reader. If a thread doesn't interest someone, he or she should skip over it instead of trying to stop other people from discussing it (unless it is inappropriate like something pornographic, racist, antisemitic, etc.) Shutting down a thread seems to be contrary to the spirit of keeping the forum open to different groups.

I do get your point. I see in this forum and in early-retirement.org a knee-jerk reaction from some contributors that if you have a higher income than they do then you'll be fine and don't have to worry about money.

Last year a coulple of retired friends gave us tremendous perspective on retirement by telling us what their after-tax income is each year. This was instructive not because it helps us to know how much we'll need when we retire next year, but because it made us realize that what other people spend to achieve the standard of living they want to have us largely irrelevant to what we will need to spend.

The other couple, for example, spends a lot more on housing at home than we spend, but their style if travel is very different from ours, so our spending patterns are going to be very different. After that conversation, I began to focus more on working up a detailed annual budget for our spending, and less on what the Joneses are spending.
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by SQRT »

Davis, I hear you. I would love to discuss this topic it's just that there are some people on this forum who think the absolute best spending level is their's

How much is enough? Simple. But you have to decide how much you would like to spend first. It's the spending level that can offend people. Shouldn't but does.
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by BRIAN5000 »

I thought this was interesting, How to get budget below $100k?
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/ ... 77150.html

Code:
Discretionary
5,000 Clothing
4,000 Dining Out
4,000 Donations
2,500 Personal Care (hair, nails)
4,000 Gifts
1,000 Entertainment
5,000 Travel/Vacation
1,000 Electronics
1,000 Home Furnishings
27,500 Subtotal
Code:
continued at link
This information is believed to be from reliable sources but may include rumor and speculation. Accuracy is not guaranteed
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by Shakespeare »

BRIAN5000 wrote:I thought this was interesting, How to get budget below $100k?
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/ ... 77150.html

Code:
Discretionary
5,000 Clothing
4,000 Dining Out
4,000 Donations
2,500 Personal Care (hair, nails)
4,000 Gifts
1,000 Entertainment
5,000 Travel/Vacation
1,000 Electronics
1,000 Home Furnishings
27,500 Subtotal
Code:
continued at link
Mods for the single guy:
Discretionary
5,000500 Clothing
4,00010000 Dining Out
4,000100 Donations
2,500100 Personal Care (hair, nails)
4,0001000 Gifts
1,0003000 Entertainment
5,0008000 Travel/Vacation
1,0005000 Electronics
1,000100 Home Furnishings
27,50027800 Subtotal

:thumbsup:
Sic transit gloria mundi. Tuesday is usually worse. - Robert A. Heinlein, Starman Jones
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by NormR »

Anyone here pay $5000/yr for clothes?
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by NormR »

I know there are a few people around who keep track of detailed budgets. Anyone want to share one?
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by Davis »

I hear you. I would love to discuss this topic it's just that there are some people on this forum who think the absolute best spending level is their's. How much is enough? Simple. But you have to decide how much you would like to spend first. It's the spending level that can offend people. Shouldn't but does.
I've never used numbers on this or other forms for that reason. I expect that our retirement income will put us in the top ten percent. I also strongly suspect that it is far more than we will really need to be very comfortable, but I'd rather have way too much than to be even a little short.
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by ghariton »

NormR wrote:Anyone here pay $5000/yr for clothes?
You married? :wink:

Manolo Blahnik flat shoes (not even heels)
NMX2NCJ_mk.jpg
$1211.68

Oscar de la Renta casual dress
NMB2YPG_ak more.jpg
$5950.58

George
The juice is worth the squeeze
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Re: How Much is Enough 2015

Post by NormR »

ghariton wrote:
NormR wrote:Anyone here pay $5000/yr for clothes?
You married? :wink:
Your clothes? :wink:
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