Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Preparing for life after work. RRSPs, RRIFs, TFSAs, annuities and meeting future financial and psychological needs.
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JKD2015
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Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by JKD2015 »

Anyone know if this is possible? I'm not talking about gold stocks or mutual funds. I'm talking about physical bullion coins or bars that can be stored in a vault.
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by Norbert Schlenker »

Physical gold is a non-qualified investment. In theory, you can hold it if you're willing to pay a 1%/month penalty tax. In fact, no financial institution will deal with you. - Old fogey didn't know the rules had changed. :oops:
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big easy
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by big easy »

I think you can hold a mutual fund such as Sprott Gold Bullion Fund, which holds gold bullion.

http://www.sprott.com/products/sprott-g ... lion-fund/
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by Spidey »

There are a number of gold bullion ETFs, such as IGT, that can be held in your RRSP. The gold is held in a secure location and you basically own a portion of it through your ETF shares.
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by bucejos »

You can hold gold bullion in an RRSP thru Questrade.
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newguy
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by newguy »

It seems to me the RRSP isn't the best place for real gold. If you don't want paper gold, then it must be for survival purposes after the impending collapse. I wouldn't be worried about capital gains tax in that scenario. Anyway, I don't think there's tax on gold coins if sold in chunks of less than $1000 (but don't break them into chunks).

newguy

btw, if your gold pays dividends, it's another story :lol:
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by Carl-TeamQuestrade »

Hi JKD2015,

I just wanted to chime in and help out here. Firstly, bucejos is totally right. You can definitely hold physical gold and silver in your RRSP, or any registered or non-registered account. When you’re holding precious metals the actual physical commodity is held at the Royal Canadian Mint (surrounded by concrete and steel and a lot of big security guards). Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Carl - Team Questrade
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by hamor »

huh, we have questrade guy now :)

I looked into that and I even opened QT account, but never used it. I thought they were doing it with Kitco, perhaps my memory simply fails me. Anyhow, I decided against bullion for reasons mentioned upthread. I do hold gold ETF in CAD.
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by Davis »

newguy wrote:It seems to me the RRSP isn't the best place for real gold. If you don't want paper gold, then it must be for survival purposes after the impending collapse. I wouldn't be worried about capital gains tax in that scenario.
But even at the end of times, you would have to be concerned about the withholding tax on RRSP/RRIF withdrawals. There's no getting around that. :thumbsup:
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP? or Silver !

Post by kcau »

I am presently holding Silver Bullion within my rrsp .... purchased through the BOM and its stored at a third party secure facility. The location probably varies depending on demand. There are no storage, mer fees etc .... they can not borrow against this gold/silver and you in fact hold title to it. BOM does presently charge $3 an oz to ship it to you if you demand so. I am not so much playing the market as i am hedging against a colossal collapse of the dollar (and thus, pretty much the entire worlds banking systems ..... yes, i am possibly paranoid). I expect that if the banks collapse, then the markets follow and i assume gold and silver go straight north (emphasis on assume....lol).

Some private companies offer the same "within your rrsp" option (eg Cdn Bullion) and store it with Brinks in Canada. I called Brinks myself to verify they do storage for them, but since i bank at BOM it was more convenient. ScotiaBank sells bullion so they must store as well. Probably all banks do.

Or coarse, i would only ship it to my local bank, if the sky was falling ..... and since gold/silver are off their high's, and this i a long term investment, i would be shocked if i didn't make a nice return over the next 10 years .

Comments? Any other similar strategy's?

kcau
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by hamor »

what's BOM?
I am sure you heard all this before, but in case of anything approaching financial apocalypse, the only useful PM will be those buried in your backyard. Possible reasons - banks will stop working, government will confiscate gold etc.
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by Springbok »

I looked on the BMO Investorline site for something on buying bullion. Couldn't find anything, although I seem to recall once seeing something about it.

Ideally, what I would like to do, is be able to drive to my bank or some other place and pick up 1oz of gold at the current price. This would reduce of a huge loss if hijacked on way home. I would store the gold somewhere on our property. Just in case of a calamity. And something to give the kids when we kick the bucket.

There are of course coins. Not sure how much of a premium has to be paid, but likely not much. Kruger Rand probably most popular. Not sure if I can buy these here in Kingston.
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by hamor »

Ideally, what I would like to do, is be able to drive to my bank or some other place and pick up 1oz of gold at the current price.
There are plenty of places that do that. Scotia has been trading PM for a long time, you can order PM to your local branch. CIBC has a division now, they deliver. Few PM stores in Canada as well as US that deliver.
There's a lot of info on RFD.
Spreads can be found online for example here
http://www.torontogoldbullion.com/home.html
"Speculation is an effort, probably unsuccessfully, to turn a little money into a lot. Investment is an effort, which should be successful, to prevent a lot of money from becoming a little." Fred Schwed " Where are the Customers’ Yachts?"
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP? or Silver !

Post by JKD2015 »

kcau wrote:I am presently holding Silver Bullion within my rrsp .... purchased through the BOM and its stored at a third party secure facility. The location probably varies depending on demand. There are no storage, mer fees etc .... they can not borrow against this gold/silver and you in fact hold title to it. BOM does presently charge $3 an oz to ship it to you if you demand so. I am not so much playing the market as i am hedging against a colossal collapse of the dollar (and thus, pretty much the entire worlds banking systems ..... yes, i am possibly paranoid). I expect that if the banks collapse, then the markets follow and i assume gold and silver go straight north (emphasis on assume....lol).

Some private companies offer the same "within your rrsp" option (eg Cdn Bullion) and store it with Brinks in Canada. I called Brinks myself to verify they do storage for them, but since i bank at BOM it was more convenient. ScotiaBank sells bullion so they must store as well. Probably all banks do.

Or coarse, i would only ship it to my local bank, if the sky was falling ..... and since gold/silver are off their high's, and this i a long term investment, i would be shocked if i didn't make a nice return over the next 10 years .

Comments? Any other similar strategy's?

kcau
By BOM you mean BMO? Are they still offering this service? Because according to information I found online, it's only Questrade and Laurentian bank that offer physical bullion: http://goldrrsp.ca/gold-in-your-rrsp-wh ... n-account/
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by joanne »

Just last year, Regal Assets also started offering the opportunity to hold physical precious metals including gold, silver and platinum in your rrsp, tfsa and resp. I just purchase some gold and silver myself and was happy to get the waived fees for the first year unlike the other companies. I think they also offer offshore storage but I'm just getting started so just staying local to Canada with my storage.
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by SkaSka »

Honestly, if I am going to hold bullion, it would be for economic depression/collapse reasons, and because I am holding for those reasons, I would not trust holding the bullion anywhere else except in my own grubby hands.

In a worst case, economic collapse and/or emergency situation, I wouldn't trust an ETF or even some guaranteed certificate that it's being held for me in a vault somewhere. If I need to move quickly for survival reasons in some disaster scenario, I want that bullion in my hands while I flee for safety :lol:
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by shmenge »

SkaSka wrote: 17 Feb 2018 21:43 If I need to move quickly for survival reasons in some disaster scenario, I want that bullion in my hands while I flee for safety :lol:
You'll need toilet paper more than any gold bar you possess. Not to mention setting yourself up for robbery while on the run. Watch some 'Walking Dead' episodes for more perspective. :roll:
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by SkaSka »

shmenge wrote: 18 Feb 2018 18:33
SkaSka wrote: 17 Feb 2018 21:43 If I need to move quickly for survival reasons in some disaster scenario, I want that bullion in my hands while I flee for safety :lol:
You'll need toilet paper more than any gold bar you possess. Not to mention setting yourself up for robbery while on the run. Watch some 'Walking Dead' episodes for more perspective. :roll:
I mean, I'm thinking about a scenario where the nation's economic system collapses, a la Venezula today or post-WW1 hyperinflation Germany, not some fictional zombie apocalypse or The Road style of civilizational collapse. Possessing bullion will allow you to flee with some of your wealth intact in a fairly compact package you can physically carry to a safe place in the world as your paper assets dissolve in value.

In a civilizational collapse scenario, the only thing that will matter is having lots of guns and lots of ammo - who cares about toilet paper when you can get as much of that as you want with your weapons from other fools who have no weapons?

Keeping on topic regarding gold bullion in the RRSP, if the reason for holding bullion is because of a fear of a very severe economic calamity in the future, I would much rather trust holding the bullion myself than trusting it in some vault on some "promise" that it's going to be there for you in some sort of economic collapse. Who's to say the government won't confiscate or freeze all bullion in the country? Look at the US in 1933 during the Great Depression and Executive Order 6102.
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by Ken »

SkaSka wrote: 18 Feb 2018 18:53Possessing bullion will allow you to flee with some of your wealth intact in a fairly compact package you can physically carry to a safe place in the world as your paper assets dissolve in value.
This is somewhat true as long as the bullion is gold. A significant value of silver is way too heavy for travel. And the trouble with gold is that it's worth TOO much. It would be quite difficult to buy groceries with a 1 oz gold maple leaf even in an economic collapse. I hold some myself but I think the actual conversion of it into a usable form would be problematic. But as for WHERE to hold it, I agree... in my hot little hand is the only way.
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JKD2015
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by JKD2015 »

It's been a while since I posted this thread. I found this page listing some of the top RRSP providers that supply physical gold: https://goldrrsp.ca/bulliondealers/

Any others I shoulkd know about? Who's BOM?

And do you guys know if I can take distribution of my metals whenever I want to?
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Re: Gold Bullion in RRSP?

Post by Clason »

Taking delivery of your bullion (assuming the service is available) would imply selling something else from the RRSP to gross-up the withdrawal and pay the withholding taxes. Then, how does it get delivered? Mail? Armored truck? Seems like a mess all-around. COVID-19 shows that registered mail can be left without signature and courier delivery delays can be very long during a crisis.

Why not simply buy an ETF? I can't imagine one situation where what you propose carries an advantage. Selling an ETF has got to be less risky and faster than taking delivery. This comes up every few weeks in a different thread. If one strongly believes in holding gold, they either:

1. Trust the financial systems and buy an ETF; or
2. Don't trust them, buy from their local Scotiabank branch and keep the bullion at home with their ammo, rice and beans.

This whole thread feels like a 5-year advertising reminder for an obscure website (rrspgold) and an obscure bullion dealer (Regal). I recommend that you trust neither of them and stick with the tried and proven. Worst case, go with Questrade, who is unlikely to be running a gold exit scheme.
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