TFSA 2015

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planB
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by planB »

AltaRed wrote:
Shakespeare wrote:
It can't be long before some sort of cap comes in me thinks. $1000K anyone?
More likely $100K IMO.
Agreed, in terms of ultimate contribution level that is. The actual FMV could be anything depending on how one invests the TFSA.
I dunno. The Australian superannuation plan allows non concessional (after tax) contributions of $180,000 AUD/yr :shock:

Note it is an apples and oranges comparison because the super plan is taxed differently in and out, but it is fair to say that our RRSP/DC+TFSA system has a long way to go to catch the Aussie plan.
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by MALDI_ToF »

Give a man a fish, and that man knows where to come for fish. Teach a man to fish, and you've just destroyed your market base.
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by poedin »

:thumbsup: will do on Monday x2
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by 2 yen »

Not sure if this is financial porn or just plain dumb. The TD advisor suggests that bridesmaids and groomsmen set up a TFSA to save for wedding expenses.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/saying-be ... 00797.html

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longinvest
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by longinvest »

The PBO has updated his TFSA analysis to take into account the budget increase to $10K:

Update of PBO’s Tax-Free Savings Account Analysis
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by ockham »

longinvest wrote:The PBO has updated his TFSA analysis to take into account the budget increase to $10K:

Update of PBO’s Tax-Free Savings Account Analysis
Thx for the link. The last sentence summarizes the analysis:
"Low through middle wealth households are not projected to be materially affected by the proposed changes."
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by Bylo Selhi »

ockham wrote:The last sentence summarizes the analysis
Thanks to longinvest also. It's worth quoting the entire last paragraph [my bold]:
Irrespective of new changes, high wealth and older households are projected to receive relatively larger benefits than lower net worth, younger counterparts. The contribution limit increases proposed in Budget 2015 would accentuate these distributional disparities. By 2045, high wealth households are projected to gain 2.3 per cent of income, as compared to 1.7 per cent under the status quo (Figure 8 ). Low- through middle-wealth households are not projected to be materially affected by the proposed changes.
Seems pretty clear that the PBO doesn't buy what Steve and Joe are selling.

<sarcasm>I wonder how the boys in short pants are going to spin this. Stay tuned for Paul Calandra's recitation of PMO talking points to inform us this afternoon in QP. </sarcasm>
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by adrian2 »

Sigh...
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by Bylo Selhi »

Here's some positive spin for Steve's Parliamentary Apologist, Paul "Cry Baby" Calanadra: TFSAs won't be a problem for Harper's granddaughter, PBO report says
So few people will actually be able to contribute $10,000 a year to their accounts that the fiscal hit to the federal government will be manageable, the PBO said. "This is not something that can get out of hand because people have limited room to save and invest. Even if you triple the size of the TFSA, only a very small number of people will have the financial room to take advantage of it," said Mostafa Askari, the assistant parliamentary budget officer. 
Was this moderator's request of Friday April 24th to keep politics out of a financial thread/forum not clear? Cease and desist.
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by Shine »

Was this moderator's request of Friday April 24th to keep politics out of a financial thread/forum not clear? Cease and desist.
Moderator W
Why is a statement by an officer of Parliament, legislated to be non-partisan, considered political in this thread? Would a statement by the Auditor General also be considered political?
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by ModeratorW »

Shine wrote:Why is a statement by an officer of Parliament, legislated to be non-partisan, considered political in this thread? Would a statement by the Auditor General also be considered political?
Stay on course with content. Check motivations, in this case partisan behavior. Political drive-bys are not acceptable in financial forums.
I wonder how the boys in short pants are going to spin this.

Here's some positive spin for Steve's Parliamentary Apologist, Paul "Cry Baby" Calanadra
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Re: TFSA 2015

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Does anyone know whether in-kind transfer from person A's TFSA account to person B's TFSA account is allowed? This is with TDWH, I was told it's not. It'd have to be 1) transferred to person A's non-registered account, 2) to person B's non-registered account, 3) to person B's TFSA account. Or if A and B hold joint non-registered account, steps 1 & 2 can be combined.
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Re: TFSA 2015

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I doubt it as the in-kind transfer probably has to be 'de-registered' first.
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Re: TFSA 2015

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max88 wrote:Does anyone know whether in-kind transfer from person A's TFSA account to person B's TFSA account is allowed? This is with TDWH, I was told it's not. It'd have to be 1) transferred to person A's non-registered account, 2) to person B's non-registered account, 3) to person B's TFSA account. Or if A and B hold joint non-registered account, steps 1 & 2 can be combined.
I think if such an in-kind transfer were allowed, it would have some potential for "gaming" the system. When it exits one account and enters another a price is assigned to represent how much room the first account will get back next year from the withdrawal, and how much room the second account consumes. With sufficient churn (limited of course by the next year rule) the account holders could pump up their contribution room significantly without tax consequences, simply by bumping the same holdings between two different holders.
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by BRIAN5000 »

Does anyone know whether in-kind transfer from person A's TFSA account to person B's TFSA account is allowed?
Why would this be required?
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by kcowan »

BRIAN5000 wrote:
Does anyone know whether in-kind transfer from person A's TFSA account to person B's TFSA account is allowed?
Why would this be required?
To avoid 2 commissions and to game the system for ACBs?
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by Quebec »

So you've contributed more than $5.5k this year and have not had a problem?
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by MALDI_ToF »

Quebec wrote:
So you've contributed more than $5.5k this year and have not had a problem?
No issues at all.
Give a man a fish, and that man knows where to come for fish. Teach a man to fish, and you've just destroyed your market base.
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by max88 »

kcowan wrote:To avoid 2 commissions and
bid/ask spread.
ADDED: If stock is transferred to non-registered account first then transferred to B's TFSA next day, there is a 50% chance stock price goes up, incurring taxable cap gain. The other 50% chance is superficial loss at a wash.
to game the system for ACBs?
Possible, but I don't understand how this can be taken advantaged of.
queerasmoi wrote:I think if such an in-kind transfer were allowed, it would have some potential for "gaming" the system. When it exits one account and enters another a price is assigned to represent how much room the first account will get back next year from the withdrawal, and how much room the second account consumes. With sufficient churn (limited of course by the next year rule) the account holders could pump up their contribution room significantly without tax consequences, simply by bumping the same holdings between two different holders.
We cannot arbitrarily pick higher EXIT price and lower ENTRY price. In order to pass CRA's test for avoidance, the "assigning" of price must be consistent for both EXIT from person A's TFSA, and ENTRY to person B's TFSA. At the end the combined room of both will be the same.
Last edited by max88 on 30 Apr 2015 17:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TFSA 2015

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AltaRed wrote:I doubt it as the in-kind transfer probably has to be 'de-registered' first.
Yup.
The problem (at TDWH) is that contribution to person B's TFSA must be directly from B's account, or a joint account of which B is a holder. I don't know if it's the same in other institution.
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by ockham »

max88 wrote:
AltaRed wrote:I doubt it as the in-kind transfer probably has to be 'de-registered' first.
Yup.
The problem (at TDWH) is that contribution to person B's TFSA must be directly from B's account, or a joint account of which B is a holder. I don't know if it's the same in other institution.
Same at RBCDI. DI will not allow transfer from person A's investment account to person B's TFSA. DI will allow transfer from person A's investment account to A+B's joint investment account and then a transfer to B's TFSA.
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by max88 »

There may be a way around this:
- Transfer in-kind (de-register) from person A's TFSA account to joint non-register account. This takes 1 day to settle.
- At the same time, transfer in-kind (short) from joint non-register account to person B's TFSA account. This takes 1 day to settle.
At the end it's a wash in the joint non-registered account. Hopefully there is no borrowing cost for the short. Prerequisite is there is sufficient margin.

Will try this next week. Don't want any transaction at month end (today).
I am cautiously optimistic. When it goes up, I claim I have been optimistic; when it goes down, I claim I have been cautious.
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by Shakespeare »

Do TFSA accounts allow shorts?

added: Financial answers from TD Experts at TD Helps | TD Helps says no.
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by AltaRed »

I don't know of any brokerage that allows shorts in a TFSA. Scotia iTrade has definitely told me NO (same is apparently true of all registered accounts though I've not validated that).
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Re: TFSA 2015

Post by max88 »

Not short in TFSA. It's in the joint non-registered margin account that allows short.
- Journal (de-register) shares from A's TFSA to joint MARGIN account. This WILL create a long position in joint MARGIN account.
- At the same time, using joint MARGIN account to borrow shares, contribute to B's TFSA. This WILL create a short position in joint MARGIN account.
- When all transactions settle, long and short positions cancel out either other, joint MARGIN account has 0 (zero) shares. Shares ended up in B's TFSA.
- EXIT and ENTRY at same price. No taxable cap gain, no superficial loss.

Same idea as Norbert's gambit.
I am cautiously optimistic. When it goes up, I claim I have been optimistic; when it goes down, I claim I have been cautious.
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