To retire/stay home or not

Preparing for life after work. RRSPs, RRIFs, TFSAs, annuities and meeting future financial and psychological needs.
couponstrip
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 552
Joined: 14 Jan 2007 15:20

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by couponstrip »

Pickles has said most of what I would have said in this thread. I think part-time may be your answer.

For me, I went part time after having our second, and it made all the difference. Pickles has astutely picked up on your frustration with your job driving this as much as anything else. It's important to be honest about the situation. Many other professional women I work with or are good friends find themselves in your situation. They have quit cold turkey only to find the lack of stimulation of child rearing quite dreary and they long for work again.

Social psychologists have studied the desirability of childcare amongst parents and found it ranked below doing housework. grocery shopping, and exercise. The more career oriented the women, the more frustrating an experience it can be. We all love our kids, but looking after preschool children is not an easy job. It's simultaneously boring/rote and stressful mixed with many moments of sheer delight.

I am satisfied when I reflect on having spent time with my children back then, though moment to moment, it can be quite frustrating. Kind of like running a marathon. Fortunately when I look back on it today, I only remember the good stuff. Everyone may call me a terrible mom for saying things like that, but I think being honest about what I am feeling is more important to finding the balance that will make me happiest. And despite the challenges, I love those kids all to pieces. It's a lot easier now too.

For me, the right balance ended up 3 days a week of work. I missed my kids when at work, and then made every second count when I had my days off. Yet I enjoyed the engagement, challenges, and social outlet of work for the 3 days I was there.

My kids are in school now, but I still only work 3 days a week. It allows for some errands on the off days, and it also allows for some time to relax and exercise. I really enjoy the lifestyle.

I would not underestimate the power differential that develops between couples when one brings home all the bacon. I am very fortunate that my husband sees us as a team and values my home work as much as my work-work. Still, many of my colleagues and friends are in nonworking situations and have been surprised by the progressively more aggressive power trips from their working spouses DESPITE careful discussions prior to the decision to quit/retire and look after the kids. Suddenly everything involved in maintaining a home including all the work to raise children is not their responsbility. It's a vaild concern.

I also recommend a housekeeper or nanny/housekeeper if possible. It is luxurious.
e_girl
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 50
Joined: 09 Aug 2013 13:13
Location: GTA

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by e_girl »

Time to come back for an update:

I am likely to return to the rat race. I figure I always have the option to quit, whenever I feel it is too much to handle. I do not always have the option to return to a similar career after I quit. It would be a bit early to call it quit right after my leave.

A lot of you have said that financial freedom is something we are much easier to achieve in the top earning years. Each extra year we work together, it's another step closer to financial freedom.

Meanwhile, we intend to start a side business in a few years (I know one of the posters above adviced against this, I will keep your comments in mind though), to pave the road for me to shift to that area and continue to bring in income when I quit my job. I will try to do a gradual shift, in a way to minimize the risk of running out of money / incurring too much debt. When the income from the business is stable enough, it would be a good time to quit my job. We have a lot to learn to be a business owner.

Thank you all for your feedback.
User avatar
Pickles
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 4215
Joined: 27 Sep 2006 09:44
Location: Toronto

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by Pickles »

Thanks for taking the time to share your choice of action with us. It sounds like a good plan for now and, like you say, you always have the option to quit at a later time.

Best of luck!
Regards,
Pickles
e_girl
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 50
Joined: 09 Aug 2013 13:13
Location: GTA

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by e_girl »

I visit this thread once in a while to remind myself of the retirement dream. There are studies that show if you disclose your goal to friends/families, you may loose focus and likely not execute the plan. As a result, few people know about my desire to retire.
This is one of the forums where I can see peers who share similar desire of early retirement / financial freedom.

I will update this thread annually, to encourage myself to stay focused, and to share with you of my journey. I feel like there may be just a few more updates before my dream would come true. :)

After I returned to work, there have been good and bad experiences of various tasks. On the bright side, a few managers who didn't see my value start to take more notice of my accomplishments. The not so good aspects of the job remain: managers who manage poorly/inefficiently/with ears and eyes nearly closed, unhealthy competition among some colleagues albeit a minority, having to work in teams that are not very coherent, having to go through performance reviews that make little sense... just to name a few. This career is truly a rat race.

I try to stay positive: the purpose of working is to amass wealth, accrue pension, contribute more RRSP's, keep health benefits, for me the lower earning spouse to be able to claim more tax credits, earn more vacation credits as I work longer so work/life balance should be easier to achieve ... etc. Some days I have to look at all these "numbers" just to keep going.

On the family side, the children have gone to daycare/school. When I come home, I try to spend certain time doing stuff with the kids. I still feel guilty those times are too short, but some days it is just too tiring.

Recently we reached a major milestone in our investment portion of the assets. We haven't got a chance to celebrate. It is a good reminder though - all the hard work and stuff we put up with at work are really worth it. We are one step closer to freedom. I can't wait until the day I go to work with the thought that I can quit any time! The difference is now I also say that to myself, with the word "almost" in it.
Flaccidsteele
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 4523
Joined: 06 Mar 2014 12:52
Location: Retired Gen Xer somewhere on the planet earth

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by Flaccidsteele »

Thanks for the update and congratulations for achieving your milestones. Good luck on the journey ahead!

PS: To answer your original question:
e_girl wrote:I have not chosen one route over the other. I know this is a personal choice. However I would like to hear from other people who have gone through a similar process (what were the deciding factors for your choice). And if you were me, what would you do?
It is very much a personal choice. For myself, in my teenage years, I never thought that "find a good job, work for 30 years, and retire comfortably" was very attractive. It sounded terrible. I wanted to make as much money doing as little as possible. I also believed that I could find work any time I wanted. Regardless of the economy. Naive conceit perhaps. But that's what I believed. And still do.

Luckily, I was indoctrinated by value investors early. I did very much what you are doing now - funneling money into investments and retired early. Today, I spend all my time with my family and friends. And from my perspective, it beats working hands down. It's not even close.

It hasn't been always pleasant, but I'm thankful that I have been able to raise my child since they were born. JK starts soon. I should have stopped working earlier. But society's expectations are hard to break. But it can be done.
henschelb
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 32
Joined: 09 Jan 2008 17:20
Location: Northern BC

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by henschelb »

When we first had kids we often had this discussion at work. An older co-worker put it to us younger coworkers this way; Did you have kids so the neighbors could raise them? Always stuck with me. We compromised and my wife worked part time for about 10-15 years to make it easier. I always hated waking up young children at a crazy early hour to drag them off to daycare. When is enough enough? Just my experience
e_girl
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 50
Joined: 09 Aug 2013 13:13
Location: GTA

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by e_girl »

This post was started a while ago.

Just wish to come here and post the updates:

I have submitted the resignation and will end the work with current employer in a few days!

Over the last two years, work situation has quickly gone from bad to worse. It has come to a stage where I was giving myself quarterly, then monthly, target date for resignation. To keep the details vague, it was dysfunctional management and some bad apples that helped to put the final nail.

On the other hand, the piling of our portfolio, the pensions, and the RESP savings have been rising nicely. That has given us more and more peace of mind. Are we financially independent? Probably not, unless we are willing to live a more frugal life. The one number that helps to solidify the decision of quitting my current job: even if we both become unemployed tomorrow, there is enough money to last a low-fat budget until the date that we could start collecting pensions. The pensions accrued so far have been more than enough to cover our current style.

At this point, for me to continue working is simply going to increase future inheritance of my children. Time is more valuable than money to me at this point.

If future opportunities arise and present themselves, I will not close the door for another career, be it in the same field, or a different one. For now, I have gained the courage to pursue other interests in life: parenting, investing, learning, and hopefully, to make my family happier and healthier.

Thank you all for your advice!

Once I get used to the new schedule, I hope to come here and contribute more to FWF.
gobsmack
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 447
Joined: 04 Sep 2015 13:16

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by gobsmack »

e_girl wrote: 20 Mar 2017 01:28 I have submitted the resignation and will end the work with current employer in a few days!
Congratulations! I had not seen this thread before but quickly went over it when I saw your post. This is a tremendous achievement of your part. I believe a lot of new parents can relate to how you have been feeling. It is great that your financial position gave you more options and that you are taking advantage of them.
e_girl wrote: 20 Mar 2017 01:28 Over the last two years, work situation has quickly gone from bad to worse. It has come to a stage where I was giving myself quarterly, then monthly, target date for resignation. To keep the details vague, it was dysfunctional management and some bad apples that helped to put the final nail.
I think this may also have been the result of your safe financial position. It becomes increasingly more difficult to sell your time for money when the money is no longer an absolute necessity. If you must draw a salary, you will put up with almost anything and your brain will figure out ways to justify it.
e_girl wrote: 20 Mar 2017 01:28 At this point, for me to continue working is simply going to increase future inheritance of my children. Time is more valuable than money to me at this point.
Amen!
hamor
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 1225
Joined: 09 Mar 2013 23:12

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by hamor »

e-girl, congrats! and thank you for posting the update!
I am sure you can find something else to do if you're bored or need more money.
"Speculation is an effort, probably unsuccessfully, to turn a little money into a lot. Investment is an effort, which should be successful, to prevent a lot of money from becoming a little." Fred Schwed " Where are the Customers’ Yachts?"
flywaysuzy
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 1224
Joined: 23 Feb 2005 10:04

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by flywaysuzy »

A toxic workplace is not very good for anyone's health. Your adrenal glands will thank you for the wise decision to head for the door... That's why it is good to have money put aside so you always have options open to you.
Well done e-girl and family!
suzy
twa2w
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 2054
Joined: 22 Feb 2005 13:08

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by twa2w »

Congrats on your decision. ENJOY.

I must say though, that my experience has often been that once people have enough money to retire or have financial independence or ability to retire with pension,, their stress seems to lessen or disappear. Their attitude changes to work. While they work just as hard, they don't seem to let deadlines or job politics bother them, because they have ability to say f*** you at any time.
User avatar
kcowan
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 16033
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 20:33
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by kcowan »

twa2w wrote: 21 Mar 2017 13:01While they work just as hard, they don't seem to let deadlines or job politics bother them, because they have ability to say f*** you at any time.
I would say that I worked much smarter once I had achieved the FU plateau. Plus I had no obligation other than professional satisfaction to complete the job. I had fun, worked hard and helped my family and friends. This latter is the law from young boys aged 5-8 who are Beavers.
For the fun of it...Keith
Flaccidsteele
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 4523
Joined: 06 Mar 2014 12:52
Location: Retired Gen Xer somewhere on the planet earth

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by Flaccidsteele »

Congrats on getting out of a toxic work environment e-girl. I'm sorry that you had to resign.

Once I had FU money, I started using my employment lawyer friend to extract severance. I obviously haven't in awhile, but my friend informs me that it's 1.7 months per year of tenure now. That's a far cry from the 1 month per year of tenure back when I was working. Somewhat shocking. :shock:
User avatar
Pickles
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 4215
Joined: 27 Sep 2006 09:44
Location: Toronto

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by Pickles »

Thank you, e-girl, for updating this thread. I am glad you stuck it out at work for a while longer because it not only firms up your finamcial position but also gave you time to consider whether or not leaving was a good move or not.

I know what it is like to leave a difficult workplace. I chose to leave mine at the age of 58 even though I had no pension at all (but lots of savings). I had intended to leave in early 2008, at the age of 56, but the economic crisis delayed my retirement for 2 more years. I knew quitting was a short term strategy but sometimes it is necessary. I worked there for 30 years before quitting. I do not regret my decision and my financial position is very good indeed.

You will want and need some detox time to recover. After 6 months or so, it is time to figure out how you want to shape your life for the next few years. Sniff around old threads in our forum's retirement section for some ideas and advice on how to make the most of retirement. Involve your husband in your decisions and help to ,ake your retirement work for the whole family.

Good luck!
Regards,
Pickles
e_girl
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 50
Joined: 09 Aug 2013 13:13
Location: GTA

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by e_girl »

Time flies. Here is an update of our family journey.

It turns out that I did not quit my job. Yes, I have continued working up to this date.

What made me stay was, once I declared the intent to resign, my manager took note to remove the toxic factor immediately from our team. Looking back, I wish I could have declared the resignation back then earlier, so the team would suffer a lot less with the removal of the toxic garbage. However, it was also not going to be good to the rest of the team, had my resignation been accepted, leaving them in the air. All I want to say is, a reasonable boss makes a world of difference!

To this date, our stash has grown multiples in all areas: RESP, RRSP, TFSA, regular accounts, pensions. To keep it vague, we have made a significant milestone of our investment assets on March 21, 2019. What a memorable date for the spring season!

Our combined pensions accrued so far would be more than enough to cover our retirement spending at retirement age, even if we both stop working today, with average inflation number factored into the analysis. Expense wise, our family has remained about the same, with the exception of more daycare expenses. Overall, we are on steady path to FIRE.

At the beginning of my staying after the withdrawn resignation, I was unsure of how long the good work environment would last, after the toxic removal. So I have refrained from posting an update here. For better or for worse, change is the only constant. Our organization has been under huge revamp in the last 6 months. Unfortunately, I am slowly returning to the work situation of the OP. I have decided to submit the resignation again! The chance of removing the bad from the good, this time, is close to zero. The good thing is, our financial situation does not depend on the outcome one way or another.

I am keeping my fingers crossed, waiting for the results.
hamor
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 1225
Joined: 09 Mar 2013 23:12

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by hamor »

Sounds like mostly good news, thanks for the update.
"It's going to be alright in the end, if it's not all right it's not the end :) "
"Speculation is an effort, probably unsuccessfully, to turn a little money into a lot. Investment is an effort, which should be successful, to prevent a lot of money from becoming a little." Fred Schwed " Where are the Customers’ Yachts?"
User avatar
freedom_2008
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 841
Joined: 16 Nov 2010 17:46
Location: Victoria

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by freedom_2008 »

Congrats e_girl, for archiving the freedom!

When we left the rat race in 2008, I said to my friends that "this (i.e. retirement) is not about stopping working, but to stop doing what you don't like and to start doing what you enjoy".

So wish you the best, and please note that “Change is the only constant in life”, and that is what makes our lives so interesting ...

Cheers.
“Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react.” — Charles R. Swindoll
KFried
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 210
Joined: 03 Oct 2016 11:09
Location: Midtown TO

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by KFried »

Stringing my nanoviolin ...
BRIAN5000
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 9063
Joined: 08 Jun 2007 23:27

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by BRIAN5000 »

KFried wrote: 28 Apr 2019 18:31 Stringing my nanoviolin ...
https://www.danpena.co.uk/snow-flake-test/
This information is believed to be from reliable sources but may include rumor and speculation. Accuracy is not guaranteed
nisser
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 2079
Joined: 11 Nov 2007 21:24

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by nisser »

apater wrote: 11 Aug 2013 19:39 It ain't the 50s anymore. Everyone in a relationship should be financially independant, not living off the generosity of their partner. That will, sooner or later, breed resentment.
Yup. You should work unless working sets you back financially by a wide margin (i.e. daycare costs).

"Change is the only constant".

What if that change includes divorce and then being left out with no ability to join the workforce?
e_girl
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 50
Joined: 09 Aug 2013 13:13
Location: GTA

Re: To retire/stay home or not

Post by e_girl »

All comments are welcome and appreciated. :)

I am instrumenting my second resignation, that will hopefully bring some change to the craziness going on in the organization. I am not holding any hope though.

Staying home is not "not working". Tending family needs, transferring my knowledge to the children, these involve lot of work too. My spouse recognizes that. He could not wait for me to quit so he can do less running around, which has been shared between us.

Before we got married, we discussed about the chance of a divorce, and what to do. We even discussed the possibility of being a young widow due to death. These scenarios have been simulated in our minds. We have back up plans for them, and hopefully no need to execute the plans.

I won't be able to get another job with similar income in this industry. That is okay. I have other skills to work different jobs if needed, just not the same level of income.

If we both continue working, one of us is simply working for the inheritance of the children. We don't need that anymore. On the other hand, our household will benefit a lot if one of us is around to spend more time with the children. They are only going to be young for a very short time.
Post Reply