Who keeps a paper trail?

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2 yen
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Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by 2 yen »

I figured this question falls under 'Peace of Mind'. For years I have been keeping a paper trail of all statements, tax info, and trade confirmations from TD and TDW. It is now a mountain of paper. How concerned should I be about keeping this paper trail going? Or, should I just go electronic with everything? I'm wondering what others on this forum do about record keeping and whether you have a paper trail? Fire away. Thanks. :?:
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by Pickles »

2yen wrote:I figured this question falls under 'Peace of Mind'. For years I have been keeping a paper trail of all statements, tax info, and trade confirmations from TD and TDW. It is now a mountain of paper. How concerned should I be about keeping this paper trail going? Or, should I just go electronic with everything? I'm wondering what others on this forum do about record keeping and whether you have a paper trail? Fire away. Thanks. :?:
Your annual trading statement from TDW should organize and record each of the trades on the slips. So once you've checked your statement to ensure it matches, you can throw away all the slips up to the end of 2011. CRA asks you to keep your income tax return and slips for the previous 7 years. If they ever reopen one of these to reassess and find an error, they can go back another 3 years. So, keep your last 10 tax returns and information slips in a file box, along with your notices of assessment from CRA. As for bank statements, I keep the last two years on hand in a box that also hold my utility, insurance and property tax bills.

In a separate file box labelled Credit Cards, manuals and warranties, I keep my credit card statements for two years and keep statements containing a record of major stuff under warranty, along with the warranty, manual and proof of purchase slip until the extended warranty offered by the credit card company expires. Then I throw the proof of payment and warranty info away but hang on to the manual until I junk/sell the product Most of my GICs and RRSP statements are in my BMOIL account or held for me by MGI Financial (which sends me annual reporting information). I keep all the certificates until the GICs matures and are reinvested, along with MGI's statements and reporting statements from any separate online purchase (eg People's Trust) in a fourth file box. I keep track of these investments with a spreadsheet.

Sixteen months ago, my computer hard drive died without warning. Because my backup practices were sporadic, I lost a year of spreadsheets and one income tax return file that I had not made a paper copy of. I was very happy that I had not moved to electronic statements as I was able to reconstruct most of the info that was lost. This year, a record of my charitable donations seemed off and I sought to check it against my online banking statement which records a pdf of each cheque, indicating the payee. Unfortunately, on January 1st, the previous year's cheque images were all removed without notice. Good thing I have a paper record.
Last edited by Pickles on 31 Mar 2012 09:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by brucecohen »

I'm in the process of changing my recordkeeping system. Am currently shredding some 30 years of documents!** :cry: Going forward, I'll keep 7 years of tax returns and related docs.* Starting this year I'm digitizing statements. I back up at least weekly onto a flash key that I take with me when leaving home. At some point I might digitize all past tax returns and receipts, copy them to a flash key and store it in my safe deposit box.

*My 7-year retention includes credit card slips for stuff that might break/get stolen/get lost and be eligible for the purchase protection insurance included with my card -- the insurer requires that a claim include the original receipt.

Those facing a similar paper mountain should:
-- If they live in a city, see if a mobile shredding company will do a one-off job
-- If that's not doable, buy a decent cross-cut shredder at Staples. Don't skimp. I bought a $40 one at Wal-Mart and it's simply not up to the job.
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by newguy »

I asked something similar before.

http://www.financialwisdomforum.org/for ... 9&t=113145

I just want to know what absolutely has to be kept on paper and what can be scanned. Even the insurance documents I just got were only photocopies of the original anyway.

What about things like birth certificates and passports? :lol:

The only sad part is when you realize your whole life including all your work output* will fit in a 1gb usb drive (or microSD card).

newguy

*Homemade porn excluded
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by Bylo Selhi »

Pickles wrote:Sixteen months ago, my computer hard drive died without warning. Because my backup practices were sporadic, I lost a year of spreadsheets and one income tax return file that I had not made a paper copy of. I was very happy that I had not moved to electronic statements as I was able to reconstruct most of the info that was lost...
OTOH a fire or flood would have destroyed your paper records equally effectively. My point is that the media is less important than your diligence in protecting/backing it. I use a combination of paper and electronic media.
brucecohen wrote:-- If they live in a city, see if a mobile shredding company will do a one-off job
You might also want to see if your local banker, accountant, medical clinic, etc. will do you a favour. Most have haevy-duty shredders on premises and/or an ongoing relationship with a shredding company.
-- If that's not doable, buy a decent cross-cut shredder at Staples. Don't skimp. I bought a $40 one at Wal-Mart and it's simply not up to the job.
The problem with low-end shredders is that they can't handle the rated number of sheets and they can't handle large jobs without overheating and burning out. But if you have the patience they're fine. My shredder is rated at "8 sheets max" yet gags when I try to shred more than 3 or 4 sheets at a time. When I use it I'll shred perhaps 100 sheets at a time, then let it sit idle for an hour or so to cool off. It's also important to empty the bin before it fills up and jams, as well as to lubricate the cutters every few months. I've had this shredder for many years yet it continues to work flawlessly. If you're looking to buy a new shredder, compare the ampere rating on the motors. The higher, the better. The weight of the shredder is also an indirect indication of how the size/strength of the motor.
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Pickles
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by Pickles »

Bylo Selhi wrote:
Pickles wrote:Sixteen months ago, my computer hard drive died without warning. Because my backup practices were sporadic, I lost a year of spreadsheets and one income tax return file that I had not made a paper copy of. I was very happy that I had not moved to electronic statements as I was able to reconstruct most of the info that was lost...
OTOH a fire or flood would have destroyed your paper records equally effectively. My point is that the media is less important than your diligence in protecting/backing it. I use a combination of paper and electronic media.
I take your point. Oh course, a fire would also destroy the electronic copy unless it was stored off site. I One of these days, I'm going to turn on my old laptop (the only computer that works with my scanner), wait 20 minutes for it to update, hook up the scanner and scan, page by page all my GIC certificates and income tax returns. Shouldn't take more than 20 hours or so. Yup, one of these days...
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by kcowan »

Check with your investment broker too. Canaccord has electronic records going back to our first purchase whereas TDW only goes back to 2007. Eventually that will be enough but it was not for the class action lawsuit against Apple which required proof of purchase and any sale transactions during the period of the class. (ISTR it was 2001-5)
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by 2 yen »

All replies much appreciated, but what I guess I should have worded better in the original post is, if TDW goes up in smoke, what recourse would I have to my retirement funds? Do I need to be paranoid about TDW and their computers? (Hence, have a paper trail)
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by brucecohen »

2yen wrote:All replies much appreciated, but what I guess I should have worded better in the original post is, if TDW goes up in smoke, what recourse would I have to my retirement funds? Do I need to be paranoid about TDW and their computers? (Hence, have a paper trail)
Computer systems at TDW and parent TD are wee bit more secure than yours. TDW is a member of CIPF though its ownership by TD probably offers greater comfort. Your most recent TDW statement shows all of your holdings and indicates if they're "segregated." That -- denoted by Seg next to the security's name -- means they're held by a custodian -- probably TD Trust -- and kept separate from TDW's own assets.
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by Bylo Selhi »

2yen wrote:if TDW goes up in smoke, what recourse would I have to my retirement funds? Do I need to be paranoid about TDW and their computers? (Hence, have a paper trail)
Let's turn this to your side of the pond: How many people in Japan lost their retirement funds as the result of a Japanese financial institution who lost their computers due to earthquake, tsunami, flood, nuclear disaster, etc? Do they (or you) need to be paranoid about such institutions and their computers?
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by Shine »

Bylo wrote: It's also important to empty the bin before it fills up and jams, as well as to lubricate the cutters every few months.
How and with what does one lubricate the cutters? WD40?
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by Shakespeare »

The blood of door-to-door salesmen. :twisted:
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

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Shine wrote:How and with what does one lubricate the cutters?
I use some motor oil but any machine oil, including sewing machine oil, etc. will do. Only a few drops are needed so a small can will last for years. (I don't use the super-expensive stuff that stationery stores sell for the purpose.)
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by Mouly »

Well for the second time in about five years I've been notified that I'm able to participate in a class action lawsuit for a US stock I owned. To join I have to provide proof of purchase/sale of the stock. I have my paper statements and was able to photocopy them. If I had tossed them then I guess my only other option would be trying to get some documentation from BMOIL, likely at some high fee.

Then again I always wonder, if someone knew to contact me for some stock I owned years ago then don't they already know the time period I owned it and how many shares.

Anyway, I keep all my statements in a box with the thought 'not much effort or cost to store and they may be needed some day....'
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by AltaRed »

Mouly wrote:Well for the second time in about five years I've been notified that I'm able to participate in a class action lawsuit for a US stock I owned. To join I have to provide proof of purchase/sale of the stock. I have my paper statements and was able to photocopy them. If I had tossed them then I guess my only other option would be trying to get some documentation from BMOIL, likely at some high fee.
The same thing can be acccomplished by keeping only your Annual Trading Summaries... in electronic or paper form. Neither confirmation slips nor monthly statements really matter.

What I used to do before the days of electronic records is to keep my December statement for each year and the Annual Trading Summary and confirmation slips. I really need to go in and reduce those records to the Annual Trading Summary. The only important information to keep are purchases and sales.
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by Shine »

Shakespeare wrote:The blood of door-to-door salesmen. :twisted:

Enjoy your humour however it also made me think that we haven't had a door-to-door sales representative (to be politically correct :wink) for years. We don't even get "Jehovah's Chosen" around much anymore. Periodically unctuous politicians show up during elections but even much of that has abated...mostly nothing but annoying phone calls now.

Are door-to-door sales persons active where you live? I seems an anachronism - something out of "Death of a Salesman" - all Willy and Biff.
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by Shakespeare »

Door-to-door salesmen are rarer here, but not yet extinct.
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by Shine »

Shakespeare wrote:Door-to-door salesmen are rarer here, but not yet extinct.
My early years were in the city where you live...our house was on 11th avenue across from Gyro Park. I remember horse drawn wagons coming by driven by a Chinese farmer who came by each week, and Hutterite farmers in horse drawn wagons delivering eggs and produce and some baked goods...then there was the milkman with a two-horse wagon.

I wonder if people continue to sell vacuum cleaners and encyclopedia door to door?
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by kcowan »

I just read the updated agreement for TDCT online services and there were a few surprises:
1) They only keep monthly statements and any enclosures for 7 years. All other edocs are limited to 6 months.
2) They reserve the right to send any and all statements and notifications by paper only to your last known address.
3) Online access can be revoked if the account has not been accessed "at least monthly".

These are a change from their published standards. I did not sign it.

They also make no statement about supported equipment needed to access their services except to say that they reserve the right to change it.
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by ghariton »

Yes, I found out about TD's seven year limit when I was trying to reconstruct the historic returns on my investments.

With a few exceptions, seven years is the longest historic period for which you must keep records. That is true for tax purposes and even after winding up a corporation. Some warranties might be longer than ten years, but they are few and far between.

The sort of thing you need to keep longer are things like titles to real property (although you can probably get the information going forty years back from the provincial land registry), mortgages and other loan documents.

Heck, you don't even have to keep your birth certificate. Good thing, too -- mine vanished some 68 years ago, and for decades I couldn't get a new one.

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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by flywaysuzy »

I have been weeding through old income tax files and drawers. It feels very productive!

No door to door anybody here-I have the Princess of the Pyrenees on guard in my yard. Better than a moat! She will be moving to the barnyard when lambing begins. I should make a recording of her barking and have it connected to a motion sensor aimed at the road for those months when she isn't on the porch! :D
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by THEMAINEVENT »

Google Drive and/or Microsoft OneDrive for all my important personal business and personal docs. Haven't saved anything to a C drive in years and got rid of business servers 5 years ago which has been a great decision with zero downtime or problems and much lower cost. For personal stuff Google Drive has a $50/year 30 GB plan that works for me. Access docs from any device and it seamlessly works with my desktop, laptop, iPad and phone. Makes document access when travelling very easy.
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

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kcowan wrote:I just read the updated agreement for TDCT online services and there were a few surprises:
1) They only keep monthly statements and any enclosures for 7 years. All other edocs are limited to 6 months.

That is an annoying weakness with TD. I have always been irritated that you could not track activity older than a few months without labourisely digging up old statements, i did not realize they were turfing old statements as well. With the cost of storage these days it makes no sense. Over at Scotia I have records going back to mid 90's when it was E-Trade (The independent broker that BNS bought out).
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Re: Who keeps a paper trail?

Post by twa2w »

Most banks etc only required to retain records 7 years. Some retention periods can be as short as a week.

I would be careful about destroying old tax records.
For example if you are carrrying forwards losses, or made a capital gains election when the rules changed., you are responsible for maintaining these records if you intend to claim or utilize these in the future. So in some cases you need to hold records much longer than 7 years. Otherwise Rev Can may deny a claim. They are not responsible for maintaining those records. And don't count on your accountant having those records.
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