Retirement - is it over-rated?

Preparing for life after work. RRSPs, RRIFs, TFSAs, annuities and meeting future financial and psychological needs.

Retirement - is it over-rated?

I'm retired. I'm glad. I'll never work again.
98
38%
I'm retired. I'm glad, I'm working to make ends meet.
4
2%
I'm retired. I'm glad. I'm working because I choose to.
30
12%
I'm retired. I'm sorry. I would have kept on working.
5
2%
I'm working. When I retire I'll never work again.
44
17%
I'm working. When I retire I'll need another job
5
2%
I'm working. When I retire I'll do something else.
54
21%
I'm working. I'll never retire.
8
3%
I don't work. I'm a gentleman (lady) of leisure.
8
3%
 
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kcowan
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by kcowan »

longinvest wrote: 03 Aug 2017 14:19To get back on topic: In retirement, how does one adequately provides for purpose, respect, accomplishment, and authority?
We jointly establish our purpose, although it does change. Always joint.

Respect is an ongoing challenge. How often can you say it and still have credibility. Actions speak louder of course but both of us have total flexibility. After being a CEO, I think love is somewhat more important in the family. It engenders tolerance and mutual respect.

Accomplishment has to come from pride in the task. Results count but that can be subjective. We outsource what neither of us can tolerate.

Authority was already addressed by my earlier post. But the division is agreed upon. Because I have 100% authority for investments, I discuss them with her but she has a limited tolerance. I insist that the 11.2% annual return last year was weighed down by several decisions to have a tolerable risk, and outsourcing a portion to have an established relationship with an FA for when I pass.

Bear in mind that we have been at this for 14 years. So it has evolved. Feel free to poke and prod!
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Descartes
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Descartes »

longinvest wrote: 03 Aug 2017 14:19 To get back on topic: In retirement, how does one adequately provides for purpose, respect, accomplishment, and authority?
If you are referring to my original unanswered question then I was referring to the purpose, respect, accomplishment and authority that one may get or is deluded in thinking one gets from his or her career. Not how one gets respect at home or manages to bully one's spouse. That part of my post was a joke.

Consider that you were an executive, for example. You had authority: you made decisions that influenced an entire company and its employees. You had respect from your employees, colleagues, and customers. You accomplished a lot of successes, overcoming difficult obstacles to triumph. In fact, to some extent rightly or wrongly, the job gave your life a purpose.

Now you spend most of your day sitting by a pool, sipping too many margaritas and/or eating too much in Mexico, looking at girls walk by who are far too young and cute for you, and occasionally typing into some internet forum or other on your iphone.

What has filled the voids left by your career ending?

Volunteering, seriously?
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by AltaRed »

Descartes wrote: 03 Aug 2017 15:48 Volunteering, seriously?
Why not? It does depend on the type of volunteering of course. Think I mentioned earlier about being on 2 Boards when I first retired, Now I am on 2 Boards in my new location (well one Board, and one municipal Commission) in subjects that matter to me. On one, I help provide governance and vision to the direction of the non-profit. In the other, I provide input on Land Use matters to the local municipal City Council. That is purpose. I earn respect from my fellow members and organization due to my credentials, past experience and skillsets as a project engineer and executive. I roll up my sleeves when necessary to be more than an armchair quarterback. My sense of accomplishment is in seeing some things go in the direction that I'd like, and the feedback I get from some of my associates. Authority is not a factor to me in my volunteer work since these are unpaid appointed positions, nor do I want the commitment that comes with authority. Influence is the driving force.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by ghariton »

Descartes wrote: 03 Aug 2017 15:48 Volunteering, seriously?
I'm on the boards of three not-for-profits, and considering joining a fourth. This last one is a bit tricky. They are consumer advocates, which I strongly believe in, but they lean a bit further to the left than I am comfortable with. Perhaps I can influence them, nudging them toward the center.

It helps that I still have my lawyer's license. That means I am more in demand than I might otherwise be. I can also demystify stuff that is really pretty straightforward.

As far as I'm concerned, this kind of volunteering makes me feel useful, contributing to society.

I did try getting involved in politics, but that was not a success. All it did was lower my opinion of all the parties.

I've also stated taking philosophy courses at the local university. That helps satisfy my intellectual curiosity, while being totally useless. It also gets me talking to, and arguing with, people who are much younger than I am. It's good for me.

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Descartes
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Descartes »

I seem to recall you both were in executive positions, although I may be mistaken.
Is there not a significant difference for you between being an advisor (in retirement) and being an executor (during your career)?
Not as visceral, central, necessary, rewarding?

To be clear, I'm not picking on the choices you've made.
I'm sincerely concerned about this as my own retirement looms and I'll be faced with the question: "so.. now what?"
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by SQRT »

Descartes wrote: 03 Aug 2017 15:48
longinvest wrote: 03 Aug 2017 14:19 To get back on topic: In retirement, how does one adequately provides for purpose, respect, accomplishment, and authority?
If you are referring to my original unanswered question then I was referring to the purpose, respect, accomplishment and authority that one may get or is deluded in thinking one gets from his or her career. Not how one gets respect at home or manages to bully one's spouse. That part of my post was a joke.

Consider that you were an executive, for example. You had authority: you made decisions that influenced an entire company and its employees. You had respect from your employees, colleagues, and customers. You accomplished a lot of successes, overcoming difficult obstacles to triumph. In fact, to some extent rightly or wrongly, the job gave your life a purpose.

Now you spend most of your day sitting by a pool, sipping too many margaritas and/or eating too much in Mexico, looking at girls walk by who are far too young and cute for you, and occasionally typing into some internet forum or other on your iphone.

What has filled the voids left by your career ending?

Volunteering, seriously?
I was a senior exec at a big bank. Had hundreds of people reporting to me. Regularly did media interviews, some national in scope. In short I was a "big shot" whose self image was inextricably linked to my exec position. Was it difficult to adapt to retirement, you bet it was. Took me about 3 years I think to reinvent who I thought I was and this wasn't easy. But it was necessary.

I sit on a not for profit board. I enjoy the social interaction and feel I am doing something worthwhile. I was an executive mentor for MBA students for several years. I manage our investments. Spend much more time on physical fitness, international travel, and looking after our "vacation" properties. More time for family, especially our aged parents. Even internet chat rooms, although I suspect most people do this while working as well. Have made many new friends. Met many of these on biking trips to Europe and made a point of connecting with them back in Canada/US.

Retirement is a chance to start over to some degree. Get off the couch and make the most of it!!!(Note, this comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular but I couldn't resist the "flourish").
Last edited by SQRT on 04 Aug 2017 11:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Shakespeare »

Regularly did media interviews, some national in scope
Were you the follicly challenged guy that caused that girl on CBC Business World to do a double take a number of years ago, then mimicked her on camera by dropping your jaw and letting your eyes bug out? :rofl:
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by SQRT »

Shakespeare wrote: 04 Aug 2017 09:40
Regularly did media interviews, some national in scope
Were you the follicly challenged guy that caused that girl on CBC Business World to do a double take a number of years ago, then mimicked her on camera by dropping your jaw and letting your eyes bug out? :rofl:
No I have a full head of silver hair and been retired for about 11 years.
Last edited by SQRT on 04 Aug 2017 10:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Flaccidsteele »

Descartes wrote: 04 Aug 2017 08:49To be clear, I'm not picking on the choices you've made.
I'm sincerely concerned about this as my own retirement looms and I'll be faced with the question: "so.. now what?"
A retired person's previous job function is largely irrelevant.

If there's no engaging routine in retirement, boredom will set in. There are a lot of hours to fill.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by AltaRed »

Descartes wrote: 04 Aug 2017 08:49 Is there not a significant difference for you between being an advisor (in retirement) and being an executor (during your career)?
Not as visceral, central, necessary, rewarding?"
Very different, but pleasantly so. Trading the demands of having to be at the top of one's game on a continuous basis while employed for the way more relaxed and fun nature of being more exploratory and casual in one's endeavours is ultimately a relief (and liberating). It is an adjustment one has to go through for sure, and it took me the better part of 2 years* to get it out of my system, but the key thing was coming to terms with the reality that perceived need of one's specific services is 'fleeting'. It hits home when one realizes the company will not really miss a beat after one is gone. It literally is time to drop the ego and re-direct one's energy into something else.

* I turned my attention early by re-directing my energy into non-profit Boards I was on one Board within 6 months of retirement and on the second one 1.5 years after retirement.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by SQRT »

AltaRed wrote: 04 Aug 2017 09:49 It literally is time to drop the ego and re-direct one's energy into something else.
Absolutely true!! You need to move on. Intellectually easy, but sometimes emotionally difficult.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by kcowan »

I was a CEO and DW managed her own business. When we jointly made the decision to retire, we both knew that adjustments would be needed. Fortunately for us, neither of us defined ourselves by our jobs.

If you need power over others, I suggest you stay working. Volunteer organizations have little structure as in command and control. You get your satisfaction out of the greater cause that you are helping to achieve. We put bright young poor kids through school, and finance independent startup businesses for other young people. It is satisfying but never replaces the adulation and recognition from the job.

I pity the people who stay working and never experience the joy that you can achieve by making a difference and not being paid for it. I consider it payback time for all the luck and wealth I received.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by fireseeker »

As retirement nears -- I'm 51 and will be done by 55, at the latest -- this is a really useful thread. Thanks for the insights.

Some good thoughts on retirement just published via a Rob Carrick reader:
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/globe- ... ndmail.com&
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by AltaRed »

kcowan wrote: 04 Aug 2017 10:39 I pity the people who stay working and never experience the joy that you can achieve by making a difference and not being paid for it. I consider it payback time for all the luck and wealth I received.
I think that is a really key point in the 'parking the ego at the office' transition. I felt 'lucky' as well and "wanted" to give back through helping others in some way.... and NOT being defined by monetary compensation or recognition at the office.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by SQRT »

fireseeker wrote: 04 Aug 2017 10:43 As retirement nears -- I'm 51 and will be done by 55, at the latest -- this is a really useful thread. Thanks for the insights.

Some good thoughts on retirement just published via a Rob Carrick reader:
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/globe- ... ndmail.com&
Good article thanks for posting. I tend to agree with his points.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Arby »

fireseeker wrote: 04 Aug 2017 10:43...
Some good thoughts on retirement just published via a Rob Carrick reader:
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/globe- ... ndmail.com&
A good article. I can relate to all of the six points mentioned in the article. For those who can't be bothered to follow the link to the article, following is a summary:
1. You don't need as much money as the financial industry says you do. Sure, more money is better than less, but we sacrificed a lot to max out our RRSPs every year and then also max out TFSAs when they came along. I see now that we needn't have sacrificed so much while working. In fact, I find we have more money to spend in retirement than we had when we were working. Not having to furiously save for retirement frees up a lot of cash.

2. We are BUSY in retirement. Pre-retirement, I did worry about not having enough to fill the days, but there is so much to do it's hard to fit it all in. Of course, unlike work, no one is going to bring you something to do every day. You have to go out and find it yourself. The upside is you get to choose what brings you the most joy. Hiking, volunteering, gardening, travelling, twice a week at the gym, and joyous times spent with our grandchildren. As I often say: "If you are bored in retirement you aren't really trying."

3. The stress reduction for me was huge. Years of working to meet ever higher demands with continually reduced resources and budgets was leading to more stress than I realized. Now, I call the shots and if I don't want to do something, then I don't do it.

4. It is psychologically hard to spend down what you've spent decades saving. When the time comes to retire, it is remarkably hard to change your mindset from saving for the future to spending for now. The reality is that we only have so many healthy, disability-free years left. If you didn't save all that money so you could spend it [when healthy], why did you save it? Remember: "When you are retired, the future is now.

5. Understand that you'll need some time to figure out what to do with the rest of your life. I read a tonne of retirement books on the financial side (overall they seem to say "never spend anything ever" though Fred Vettese's The Essential Retirement Guide is a notable and recommended exception).

6. I was nervous before making the jump to retirement, but now that I've done it I wonder what I was worried about. My retired friends say the same thing.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Descartes »

Thanks for the replies.

While I think it is a superficial reading of the original question to say it is a worry about the loss of money or power over people,
I won't go as far as to say ego doesn't come into play.

The advice that one needs to redirect or reinvent oneself and that it can take a few years rings true and is appreciated.
The big question though is how and to what.

..As an aside, I think "engaging routine" (as in "you must find one in retirement") is an oxymoron :).
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by SQRT »

Descartes wrote: 04 Aug 2017 12:16 Thanks for the replies.


The advice that one needs to redirect or reinvent oneself and that it can take a few years rings true and is appreciated.
The big question though is how and to what.
Right, how could it be otherwise? Each person must find their own way. Take up new hobbies/sports, travel more, make new friends, get involved in new boards. Hard to be more proscriptive. It's up to you and is your responsibility. Does help, I think, if you are an extrovert and if not you may have to step out of your comfort zone, but certainly necessary and worth it.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Chuck »

Geez, am I the only guy here who wasn't a senior executive or CEO?

I suffered no great loss of power or authority when I retired since I had very little. And as a bonus, all those Dilbert like pointy haired bosses no longer have any opportunity to make my eyes roll as they did when I had to march to their often ridiculous corporate mandates. So it's win win on the retirement front for me.

I might be in the minority here on FWF, but I think 90%+ of the general population is in my boat.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by BRIAN5000 »

Chuck wrote: 04 Aug 2017 14:56 Geez, am I the only guy here who wasn't a senior executive or CEO?

I suffered no great loss of power or authority when I retired since I had very little. And as a bonus, all those Dilbert like pointy haired bosses no longer have any opportunity to make my eyes roll as they did when I had to march to their often ridiculous corporate mandates. So it's win win on the retirement front for me.

I might be in the minority here on FWF, but I think 90%+ of the general population is in my boat.
I'm with you Chuck I was also a Gronk, lowly peon or common worker, no loss of anything when retiring from job other than having to get up so early. As an individual and a group we paid little attention to management or we would have never got the job done.

I got the results of some executive decision today from BNS "Your email notifications have a brand new design" not sure if they changed the colours or not, I don't care.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Flaccidsteele »

Chuck wrote: 04 Aug 2017 14:56 Geez, am I the only guy here who wasn't a senior executive or CEO?
I wasn't either.

Senior executives spend too much time working IMO. Considering that I would only be young once, I wanted most of my time with family and friends. This was reinforced after reviewing the "top 5 regrets of the dying".

I'm not sure about the "power over people" thing either. I never wanted to manage or lead people. I just wanted to maximize compensation while minimizing work time. It is very possible to do this without having to work a ton of hours. To orchestrate this, one could argue that I needed to have "power over people", but a different kind of "power".

I recently got an offer to return to the workforce. I may take it to add some structure to my day. Especially now that my child has started going to school.
Last edited by Flaccidsteele on 04 Aug 2017 16:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by AltaRed »

Chuck wrote: 04 Aug 2017 14:56 Geez, am I the only guy here who wasn't a senior executive or CEO?
Not in the eyes of my multi-national employer although at a local level I was. I never wanted to kiss ass enough to be a senior exec at the multi-national level and toe the party line. I retired on my own terms. I tend to be stubborn that way. :lol:
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

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Don't let titles, especially external job titles impress you too much.

I can recall going to a customer meeting with a colleague. In our company we were Directors. The purpose was to finalize a multi year/multi million dollar deal. The understanding with the client was that this was to be the final meeting/negotiation.

Our partner, a very large Canadian telco had three vice presidents at the meeting to negotiate their end. The meeting ended fairly quickly much to the clients's surprise and annoyance. We did our deal, committed our company however it seems that these three telco VP's could not jointly or individually sign for a box of staples, let alone ink or sign a memoradum of agreement.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by biggreydog »

AltaRed wrote: 04 Aug 2017 16:43
Chuck wrote: 04 Aug 2017 14:56 Geez, am I the only guy here who wasn't a senior executive or CEO?
Not in the eyes of my multi-national employer although at a local level I was. I never wanted to kiss ass enough to be a senior exec at the multi-national level and toe the party line. I retired on my own terms. I tend to be stubborn that way. :lol:
This is an excellent thread.

CEO. 1000's of people and multi-hundred millions in revenues. Global scale and influence. Ownership stake.

But, now have actively and deliberately scaled down from "boss" to very senior influencer as I get ready to leave that business.

I see it as a natural progression for the way out while I define what is to be next and I am very excited to do that. All requirements to exercise my muscles to do the hardest, biggest things are fully satisfied, I have nothing to prove to myself (and never did to anyone else) so the time will be right to move out and take on very new endeavours in the near future.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Shakespeare »

Spearchucker and happy to be out.... :lol:
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