Retirement - is it over-rated?

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Retirement - is it over-rated?

I'm retired. I'm glad. I'll never work again.
98
38%
I'm retired. I'm glad, I'm working to make ends meet.
4
2%
I'm retired. I'm glad. I'm working because I choose to.
30
12%
I'm retired. I'm sorry. I would have kept on working.
5
2%
I'm working. When I retire I'll never work again.
44
17%
I'm working. When I retire I'll need another job
5
2%
I'm working. When I retire I'll do something else.
54
21%
I'm working. I'll never retire.
8
3%
I don't work. I'm a gentleman (lady) of leisure.
8
3%
 
Total votes: 256

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Wallace
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Wallace »

Great philosophy, ST. :thumbsup:
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izzy
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by izzy »

One of the biggest problems as you age is loneliness from outliving friends and /or family . If you are not prepared to get out and make new friends you will be very lonely!
New friends, new skills and new challenges-there are a lot of nice people out there if you are open to new experiences!
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Wallace
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Wallace »

izzy wrote: 26 Mar 2017 15:33 One of the biggest problems as you age is loneliness from outliving friends and /or family . If you are not prepared to get out and make new friends you will be very lonely!
And it's much harder for men than women. Women have a far better social drive than men. This was driven home to me when I worked in Long term care in a special unit for people with Alzheimers. Women socialised. You would often see them in a group round a table chatting away to each other or walking together in the unit. Everything seemed normal until you came close and listened to the conversation. That was when you realised that none of it made sense. Yet they were socialising, smiling, and enjoying living moment to moment. Men were different. They stayed on their own and had to be coaxed into social situations.

Men in retirement need to push themselves to remain sociable. And are far more at risk for depression than women. It seems to have a lot to do with the feeling that we must "achieve" things in life, instead of just living it.

It's a funny old world.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

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Flaccidsteele wrote: 12 Jan 2017 03:40
Peculiar_Investor wrote:The hard part about leaving "work" was I missed the people/social interactions in the workplace
This is interesting.

Many retirees mention this, yet very few keep in touch with their former work colleagues.

Question.

If the people/social interactions were valuable during their career, why aren't they valuable enough to maintain after their career?

From my perspective, workplace relationships seem oddly similar to Facebook "friends".
There is some truth to this. However, the other side of the coin is this is that part of the charm of work relationships is that they force us out of our comfort-zone - they allow you to socialize with people that you wouldn't usually. We typically socialize with people of our own age, gender and people who think like we do. At work one often socializes with older people, younger people, people of different cultures, economic backgrounds and people of the opposite sex. You do have a good point about maintaining the friendship outside the career and I've done this to some extent but admittedly sometimes it isn't practical.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by CROCKD »

Wallace wrote:And it's much harder for men than women. Women have a far better social drive than men
I see this in my seniors hiking group which I estimate to be about 75% female. Women are joiners and maintain social networks. Men are not naturally joiners and are more likely to be lone wolves.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Flaccidsteele »

Spidey wrote: 26 Mar 2017 20:15There is some truth to this. However, the other side of the coin is this is that part of the charm of work relationships is that they force us out of our comfort-zone - they allow you to socialize with people that you wouldn't usually. We typically socialize with people of our own age, gender and people who think like we do. At work one often socializes with older people, younger people, people of different cultures, economic backgrounds and people of the opposite sex.
I agree that this would cut out most co-workers who aren't of the same demographic. However, many co-workers of similar demographic (and cognitive biases) still don't keep in touch after their careers are over.
Spidey wrote: 26 Mar 2017 20:15You do have a good point about maintaining the friendship outside the career and I've done this to some extent but admittedly sometimes it isn't practical.
I agree. It either isn't practical or "work friends" aren't really valued to begin with. Only the money and routine is valued/important.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by kcowan »

izzy wrote: 26 Mar 2017 15:33 One of the biggest problems as you age is loneliness from outliving friends and /or family . If you are not prepared to get out and make new friends you will be very lonely!
New friends, new skills and new challenges-there are a lot of nice people out there if you are open to new experiences!
We have been retired 15 years and have the following death toll: 11 friends, 3 brothers and 5 cousins. Our choice to snowbird for 5+ months has helped to backfill. :shock:
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by izzy »

kcowan wrote: 27 Mar 2017 09:46
izzy wrote: 26 Mar 2017 15:33 One of the biggest problems as you age is loneliness from outliving friends and /or family . If you are not prepared to get out and make new friends you will be very lonely!
New friends, new skills and new challenges-there are a lot of nice people out there if you are open to new experiences!
We have been retired 15 years and have the following death toll: 11 friends, 3 brothers and 5 cousins. Our choice to snowbird for 5+ months has helped to backfill. :shock:
Most of my loss of friends due to death have been men,most of the female losses have been due to dementia!
Not sure which is worse :( !
Mind you,I have made more new friends than I have lost-mostly retirees of course probably because we have more time available and similar life situations!
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Wallace »

Expectancy of life is based on a statistical average, which essentially means that if you make it to 78 (men) or 83 (women)*, 50% of your peers have already taken the one-way magical mystery tour. One of the challenges in retirement is coming to terms with this, and maintaining a positive outlook on life. The philosophy of stoicism, where one enjoys and looks forward to the things still under one's own control, while accepting those that are not, helps for some, but it's not easy.

*Not sure if these are still valid figures - I'm in retirement now!
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by izzy »

Wallace wrote: 27 Mar 2017 17:36 Expectancy of life is based on a statistical average, which essentially means that if you make it to 78 (men) or 83 (women)*, 50% of your peers have already taken the one-way magical mystery tour. One of the challenges in retirement is coming to terms with this, and maintaining a positive outlook on life
-whilst accepting that the chance that you or your spouse will not wake up on any given morning leaving the other alone becomes very real -there's "the rub"!
Stoicism may or may not help you to accept that inevitability if you yourself are the survivor but empathy makes it very difficult to accept for ones spouse ,especially if she is ailing-too many sick and lonely widows around!
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Flaccidsteele »

CROCKD wrote: 26 Mar 2017 20:28
Wallace wrote:And it's much harder for men than women. Women have a far better social drive than men
I see this in my seniors hiking group which I estimate to be about 75% female. Women are joiners and maintain social networks. Men are not naturally joiners and are more likely to be lone wolves.
I read the following in a seemingly unrelated article:

Science shows that having kids can help you live past 80
The greater benefit of parenthood for men, especially unmarried men, is in line with other studies showing that, with age, more men than women lose the social connections linked to better health, and therefore count on their adult children to fill the gap.
Not sure why, in general, more men are antisocial compared to women.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

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izzy wrote: 27 Mar 2017 10:04Mind you,I have made more new friends than I have lost-mostly retirees of course probably because we have more time available and similar life situations!
Yes our new friends made in Mexico are all retired and so we have time to play.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

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Flaccidsteele wrote: 28 Mar 2017 01:02Not sure why, in general, more men are antisocial compared to women.
Men created social connections through work while women, even working ones, created social connections outside work. Guess which one continues after retirement. DW has an amazing talent at IDing new prospects here in Mexico. There is also the fact that she focuses on the woman and I just have to get along with the guy. (There are also some gay couples and we both like the one that she liked first. The other one just goes along. Where there is no sympatico between the wives, the relationships do not blossom.)
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

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kcowan wrote: 28 Mar 2017 08:47
Flaccidsteele wrote: 28 Mar 2017 01:02Not sure why, in general, more men are antisocial compared to women.
Men created social connections through work while women, even working ones, created social connections outside work. Guess which one continues after retirement. DW has an amazing talent at IDing new prospects here in Mexico. There is also the fact that she focuses on the woman and I just have to get along with the guy. (There are also some gay couples and we both like the one that she liked first. The other one just goes along. Where there is no sympatico between the wives, the relationships do not blossom.)
1) Men are in a constant state of competition. Better to not engage than lose the competition.
2) Men are so wiped from looking after all the traditional details men are expected to take care of that investing in relationships is just too tiring. This is not PC, but maybe true.
3) Men are valued according to what they do, women by the quality of their relationships.
4) Etc.

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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Flaccidsteele »

2 yen wrote: 28 Mar 2017 11:23 1) Men are in a constant state of competition. Better to not engage than lose the competition.
2) Men are so wiped from looking after all the traditional details men are expected to take care of that investing in relationships is just too tiring. This is not PC, but maybe true.
3) Men are valued according to what they do, women by the quality of their relationships.
Solid observations.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

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Flaccidsteele wrote: 30 Mar 2017 08:51
2 yen wrote: 28 Mar 2017 11:233) Men are valued according to what they do, women by the quality of their relationships.
Solid observations.
OK guys thanks. You have given me permission to blame my divorce on HER.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Flaccidsteele »

Apparently it starts young.

The biggest health threat facing middle-aged men is loneliness
Apparently we're not the only ones, as the issue of loneliness has become a growing health problem affecting one in five Americans, according to a 2015 study by researchers at Brigham Young University.
I'm typically the one in my group of guy friends who organizes get-togethers.

Men being anti-social is probably a contributing factor to why the vast majority don't keep work-friends around after their careers are over.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

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2 yen wrote: 28 Mar 2017 11:23 ....
2) Men are so wiped from looking after all the traditional details men are expected to take care of that investing in relationships is just too tiring. This is not PC, but maybe true.
....
2 yen
This one made me snort a bit (in a nice way).

My man takes out the garbage and maintains the pool.

These are the two things that I've managed to avoid over the years. I accept that this is all my own doing. Being much more selfish than he is, I've orchestrated a work life that makes me feel semi-retired. It's 80ish hours of shift work seven out of every 14 days. Many people find this schedule unappealing but it's been excellent for us, especially with a young family.

I'm the family CFO. I shovel the snow, mow the lawn, plan our travel, maintain our schedule, do the groceries, buy and maintain the vehicle, etc, etc, etc.

There are times that I'm resentful. But I'm also unwilling to relinquish control of some things.

Many of the few women I work with have a similar philosophy of .... If I have to 'ask' then I may as well just do it myself.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Jaunty »

A slight digression. I love to read this thread's title "Retirement - is it over-rated?" in my unread posts! Every time I sort of smile and say, "nope" in my head. Retirement is the best job I never had.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

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Flaccidsteele wrote: 30 Mar 2017 22:31Men being anti-social is probably a contributing factor to why the vast majority don't keep work-friends around after their careers are over.
There is another factor. Most of my work buddies have relocated outside to Toronto to their cottages. The ones without cottages move to Collingwood (although some choose Parksville).
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by izzy »

kcowan wrote: 31 Mar 2017 10:27
Flaccidsteele wrote: 30 Mar 2017 22:31Men being anti-social is probably a contributing factor to why the vast majority don't keep work-friends around after their careers are over.
There is another factor. Most of my work buddies have relocated outside to Toronto to their cottages. The ones without cottages move to Collingwood (although some choose Parksville).
Another factor for some of us is that as older friends died off we developed younger ones and they tend to be still in the workforce-so until THEY retire there is a problem of availability and shared interests.Women traditionally did not have such an abrupt transition so it was easier for them to continue such relationships.The more "emancipated" women of today are likely to encounter a similar problem as time goes by as they already do in other areas.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by AltaRed »

That has not been my experience. Most of my longer term friends are people spouse or I worked with and who are now retired as well. Plus relocation after retirement and getting involved locally has established new friends in similar situations to us. Maybe that will change as we hit our late 70s or beyond, but not sure it really has to. There should always be reasons to interact with ones own demographic.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

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AltaRed wrote: 31 Mar 2017 12:20 That has not been my experience. Most of my longer term friends are people spouse or I worked with and who are now retired as well. Plus relocation after retirement and getting involved locally has established new friends in similar situations to us. Maybe that will change as we hit our late 70s or beyond, but not sure it really has to. There should always be reasons to interact with ones own demographic.
My experience too! But at 75 the number of my old friends is,sadly ,diminishing.
I have made a fair number of new friends since I retired, a few are even older than I am, but reading the obits in the morning and going to funerals inevitably becomes a (depressing ) pastime in itself.
I do still have a fair number of friends who are still in the workforce but they are usually too busy during the day and my resilience for late hours has diminished.I'm a fairly social individual (I like people) so I make the effort but I can see how someone less social could quickly become very isolated.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

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izzy wrote: 31 Mar 2017 13:40
AltaRed wrote: 31 Mar 2017 12:20 That has not been my experience. Most of my longer term friends are people spouse or I worked with and who are now retired as well. Plus relocation after retirement and getting involved locally has established new friends in similar situations to us. Maybe that will change as we hit our late 70s or beyond, but not sure it really has to. There should always be reasons to interact with ones own demographic.
My experience too! But at 75 the number of my old friends is,sadly ,diminishing.
I have made a fair number of new friends since I retired, a few are even older than I am, but reading the obits in the morning and going to funerals inevitably becomes a (depressing ) pastime in itself.
I do still have a fair number of friends who are still in the workforce but they are usually too busy during the day and my resilience for late hours has diminished.I'm a fairly social individual (I like people) so I make the effort but I can see how someone less social could quickly become very isolated.
We have a very active social life in Mexico for 6 months (right now returning to the long timers) but Vancouver has only 8 people left and summer is less than ideal for growing that number. Most community programs have shut down for the summer. We are in the throws of dealing with that in the next few months. Our retired friends span the range for 85 to 58.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Flaccidsteele »

Personally I spend a lot of time raising the kid and other family-related things. Travel requires a bit of planning (again because of the kid's school schedule). However, I do find time to play World of Warcraft a lot.
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