Retirement - is it over-rated?

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Retirement - is it over-rated?

I'm retired. I'm glad. I'll never work again.
98
38%
I'm retired. I'm glad, I'm working to make ends meet.
4
2%
I'm retired. I'm glad. I'm working because I choose to.
30
12%
I'm retired. I'm sorry. I would have kept on working.
5
2%
I'm working. When I retire I'll never work again.
44
17%
I'm working. When I retire I'll need another job
5
2%
I'm working. When I retire I'll do something else.
54
21%
I'm working. I'll never retire.
8
3%
I don't work. I'm a gentleman (lady) of leisure.
8
3%
 
Total votes: 256

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kcowan
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by kcowan »

For us, the defining moment was when we bought our snowbird place in 2007. Then we set about meeting a whole new set of friends with similar interests. Since then we have had a gradual separation with our northern friends but still see them a couple of times a year. One interesting things is that many of my other friends make a point of letting me know when they are in PV. Shakespeare was the first but there have been many, the most recent being brett from the ER.org board last Thursday. Also many friends from Toronto come down here. One good friend is coming down for three months this year.

Of course there are some other friends who do not come here as often owing to life changes, so the process is continual. When I retired and started my exercise regime, I was able to get my keyman insurance for much less than the company had paid owing to my better numbers.

There is one couple who live full-time in PV who we actually meet in Europe as well. And many of our new friends spend some summer time in Seattle so we meet in the summer for wine tours and other tours of interest. We have also met a surprising number of couples who live summers in Vancouver that we would never have met in Vancouver.

After 14 years, my advice would be to take on this new challenge just as you would have approached a new job when working. And remain flexible because that will be necessary. Nemo is on my list for a fellow retiree who we will meet somewhere in the world. Danmar is another. Both from ER/org. Meadbh and AltaRed would be on the list but they live in the Okanagan.

So far we have avoided the seniors organizations. They seem to appeal to older seniors. We also no longer belong to CARP.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by SQRT »

Agree with Keith. The key to a happy enjoyable retirement (at least for us) is making new friends. We created 2 new groups, one in Arizona and one in Alberta. All the while, ensuring that we keep in contact with our Ontario friends. This along with taking up biking and skiing have kept us busy. Physical fitness has been a lot easier with more time available. Hopefully this will pay off with greater and longer mobility. I've seen isolation in older age with my in laws. Certainly not the way to go and it takes a concerted effort to avoid.
Last edited by SQRT on 07 Dec 2016 14:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by ghariton »

Flaccidsteele wrote:I did a few things to fill my time.
Get a couple of dogs and walk them three hours a day, no matter what the weather. It's good for you and for the dogs. Worked for me, anyway.

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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Flaccidsteele »

SQRT wrote:Agree with Keith. The key to a happy enjoyable retirement is making new friends. We created 2 new groups, one in Arizona and one in Alberta.
Question. For those who are retired. What proportion of your friends are from your former work life? That is, how many former colleagues from work did you keep in touch with after your career ended?

I had assumed (perhaps incorrectly?) that work friends rarely, if ever, become life long friends after one's career ends. Of all the people I met at work, I only keep in touch with a couple. My observation has been that employees only become friends at work out of convenience, and that once work is over, the relationship is over.

Kinda similar to the parents that I meet at my kid's school. We may be friends now, but once our kids go to different schools I'm going to assume that the relationship will be over.
ghariton wrote:Get a couple of dogs and walk them three hours a day, no matter what the weather. It's good for you and for the dogs. Worked for me, anyway.

George
An interesting idea. I'll mull this one over.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by OnlyMyOpinion »

Like you - few, 2 or 3 from my career that I touch base with once a year or so.
I'm not sure how useful comparisons are though. I think the answer will depend on a number of things, foremost of which may be your propensity as an introvert or extrovert.
I just attended a standing-room-only funeral of about 200 that drew family, childhood friends, neighbours, co-workers from 15 years ago, the Harley gang, the Corvette gang, the dog-walking gang. He was very much a 'people' person and made lasting friends in whatever circles he traveled. All were saddened that he died at only age 69.
On the other hand, I told my wife that when my time comes, she can remove all but one pew and still have empty seats.
That doesn't mean I'm not enjoying my 2 yrs into retirement. I'm just not a big people person. My wife on the other hand is. It works for us.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by 8Toretirement »

kcowan wrote:For us, the defining moment was when we bought our snowbird place in 2007. Then we set about meeting a whole new set of friends with similar interests. Since then we have had a gradual separation with our northern friends but still see them a couple of times a year. One interesting things is that many of my other friends make a point of letting me know when they are in PV. Shakespeare was the first but there have been many, the most recent being brett from the ER.org board last Thursday. Also many friends from Toronto come down here. One good friend is coming down for three months this year.

Of course there are some other friends who do not come here as often owing to life changes, so the process is continual. When I retired and started my exercise regime, I was able to get my keyman insurance for much less than the company had paid owing to my better numbers.

There is one couple who live full-time in PV who we actually meet in Europe as well. And many of our new friends spend some summer time in Seattle so we meet in the summer for wine tours and other tours of interest. We have also met a surprising number of couples who live summers in Vancouver that we would never have met in Vancouver.

After 14 years, my advice would be to take on this new challenge just as you would have approached a new job when working. And remain flexible because that will be necessary. Nemo is on my list for a fellow retiree who we will meet somewhere in the world. Danmar is another. Both from ER/org. Meadbh and AltaRed would be on the list but they live in the Okanagan.

So far we have avoided the seniors organizations. They seem to appeal to older seniors. We also no longer belong to CARP.
I'm curios about the new friends issue. Are these new friends gained from new interests or do you rehash your past. Through past experiences that you may not be continuing such as work? Or maybe a combination.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by 8Toretirement »

Flaccidsteele wrote:
SQRT wrote:Agree with Keith. The key to a happy enjoyable retirement is making new friends. We created 2 new groups, one in Arizona and one in Alberta.
Question. For those who are retired. What proportion of your friends are from your former work life? That is, how many former colleagues from work did you keep in touch with after your career ended?

I had assumed (perhaps incorrectly?) that work friends rarely, if ever, become life long friends after one's career ends. Of all the people I met at work, I only keep in touch with a couple. My observation has been that employees only become friends at work out of convenience, and that once work is over, the relationship is over.

Kinda similar to the parents that I meet at my kid's school. We may be friends now, but once our kids go to different schools I'm going to assume that the relationship will be over.
ghariton wrote:Get a couple of dogs and walk them three hours a day, no matter what the weather. It's good for you and for the dogs. Worked for me, anyway.

George
An interesting idea. I'll mull this one over.
I retired from the military then picked up new work after two years of travel. I keep loose contact with a fair amount of ex military friends through a Facebook group but wouldn't call them friends anymore. I only hang out with one ex military guy, none at the new work.

In general I keep to myself, and interact mostly with my wife and extended family. I always seem to have a varied group of regular activities to keep me occupied so I am expecting it to carry forward through retirement. I am an Introvert so not worried so much about being around people. I really enjoyed my time off during the two years between military retirement and new job.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by SkaSka »

Thanks for the reply Flaccid (and others).

My conception of retirement is continuing to do what you love because you love doing it without worries. I don't think that ever ends.

My thoughts on my current 9-to-5 (as someone just leaving their 20s) is that I would want to sooner or later (definitely sooner) transition away from what I'm currently doing for work because it really doesn't mean much to me except a place to show up and collect money.

I have things I love doing that I would do for free all day or even just get paid peanuts, but currently these aren't economically feasible things to do relative to other considerations (rent, food, travel, saving for the future, etc). I mean, I could do it but it would expose great risk to our family's finances that I'm not willing to bear. Thus, I compromise for now.

The ultimate goal is to eventually take care of the finances so that a transition away to lower-paying-but-more-rewarding-work does not entail unacceptable financial risks to our family. Thus, I continue to put up with my work even though I do not find it particularly stirs my soul, though the compromise being it really helps build up financial assets in the meantime.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Chuck »

Some good points made herein.

It's important to remember that your personality is unique and one size will not fit all. Amount of social interaction and schedules/routine and all that.

I was one of those people that for every day of my 32 year career struggled to make it to work on time. The alarm was always going off to early for my tastes. Now that I am retired I absolutely LOVE having no schedule. It's one of the things that make me leery of committing to volunteer work or a part time job. I'm definitely what people would refer to as a TYPE B personality.

However, as someone else mentioned, school/work is sort of habit forming. When you think about it - starting school at age 5 right through to retirement (which for me was age 53 - 11 months ago) you kind of have your Mon-Fri 8-4/9-5 day defined for you. So that structure was in place for 48/53 = 90.5% of my life! And for many people it is even more. Even though I think I was always of the view that school/work was a means to an end and not the end itself, it's your world for so long you sure get in the habit of it.

So even though I don't really miss work, I do feel a bit aimless/unstructured right now. But I'll figure it out. I think I just need some time to de-condition myself from the old 40hr a week or so routine.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Koogie »

Flaccidsteele wrote:I had assumed (perhaps incorrectly?) that work friends rarely, if ever, become life long friends after one's career ends. Of all the people I met at work, I only keep in touch with a couple. My observation has been that employees only become friends at work out of convenience, and that once work is over, the relationship is over.
Kinda similar to the parents that I meet at my kid's school. We may be friends now, but once our kids go to different schools I'm going to assume that the relationship will be over.
As a fellow early retiree, I would encourage you to look at the early-retirement.org forum and register if you haven't already. I have been a member there since 2007 and many of the topics, concepts and problems you have been asking about are discussed there. Often, ad nauseam.

It is also American dominated and with your interest in American real estate and politics, you might find more to discuss. They are also a pretty funny bunch.. :thumbsup:
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by kcowan »

I have moved many times before retirement so in each place, we picked up a few lifelong acquaintances. But we have made more since retirement than we had gathered before.

I think it is just pre-selection because the people we meet have already decided that work was a necessary evil, but still evil!

Plus I am an ex-CEO but I can get along with a golf pro. What we did no longer matters. What matters is what we care about now.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Wallace »

Interesting that 23% of the "workers" in the survey say they will "do something else" after retirement yet only 12% of the retired group are actually doing so. Maybe I phrased the question incorrectly and "something else" has been interpreted as travelling or volunteering rather than "work" of some sort.

OTOH I suppose all of us who are retired are doing "something else" :) Some more leisurely than others....
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by longinvest »

SkaSka wrote: My conception of retirement is continuing to do what you love because you love doing it without worries. I don't think that ever ends.
SkaSka,

Are you telling me that I'm getting paid to be retired? Nice! :wink:

P.S. My employer does not consider me retired.
Last edited by longinvest on 07 Dec 2016 20:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by SQRT »

8Toretirement wrote:
kcowan wrote:For us, the defining moment was when we bought our snowbird place in 2007. Then we set about meeting a whole new set of friends with similar interests. Since then we have had a gradual separation with our northern friends but still see them a couple of times a year. One interesting things is that many of my other friends make a point of letting me know when they are in PV. Shakespeare was the first but there have been many, the most recent being brett from the ER.org board last Thursday. Also many friends from Toronto come down here. One good friend is coming down for three months this year.

Of course there are some other friends who do not come here as often owing to life changes, so the process is continual. When I retired and started my exercise regime, I was able to get my keyman insurance for much less than the company had paid owing to my better numbers.

There is one couple who live full-time in PV who we actually meet in Europe as well. And many of our new friends spend some summer time in Seattle so we meet in the summer for wine tours and other tours of interest. We have also met a surprising number of couples who live summers in Vancouver that we would never have met in Vancouver.

After 14 years, my advice would be to take on this new challenge just as you would have approached a new job when working. And remain flexible because that will be necessary. Nemo is on my list for a fellow retiree who we will meet somewhere in the world. Danmar is another. Both from ER/org. Meadbh and AltaRed would be on the list but they live in the Okanagan.

So far we have avoided the seniors organizations. They seem to appeal to older seniors. We also no longer belong to CARP.
I'm curios about the new friends issue. Are these new friends gained from new interests or do you rehash your past. Through past experiences that you may not be continuing such as work? Or maybe a combination.
New interests and experiences. Like travel, biking, entertaining, etc. Very little rehashing, once you know a person's background. We entertain our new friends at our home(s),visit them at their homes, go out to dinner with them,bike with them, travel with them, really what you would expect. I have very few friends from working, only a couple and we aren't that close. Met many great friends on biking trips. Common interests,etc.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Garthd »

I retired 4 years ago at age 54. Voted 1, and obviously love retirement. Considered 1 job offer post retirement but thankful that I turned it down. I manage our portfolio and we have zero pension income but live off our assets. Keeps me busy along with riding my horse.

Thinking of trading emini futures, anyone have any experience?
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Flaccidsteele »

SkaSka wrote:My thoughts on my current 9-to-5 (as someone just leaving their 20s) is that I would want to sooner or later (definitely sooner) transition away from what I'm currently doing for work because it really doesn't mean much to me except a place to show up and collect money.
I think most employees view work in the same way.

The "I work because I enjoy it" is unconvincing to me because of the demand for pay. Most people don't ask to get paid to do what they enjoy (e.g. vacation, hobbies, spending time with kids/grandkids, etc). In fact they do the opposite - they often have to spend money to engage in those experiences.

From my observation, outside of money to pay the bills, work is for social connection (not friends, because most employees don't stay in touch as friends after their careers are over) and routine/schedule. The issue of depression comes from losing these two things.
Koogie wrote:As a fellow early retiree, I would encourage you to look at the early-retirement.org forum and register if you haven't already. I have been a member there since 2007 and many of the topics, concepts and problems you have been asking about are discussed there. Often, ad nauseam.

It is also American dominated and with your interest in American real estate and politics, you might find more to discuss. They are also a pretty funny bunch.. :thumbsup:
Thanks for this. I will definitely spend time browsing over there.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by SoninlawofGus »

Flaccidsteele wrote: The "I work because I enjoy it" is unconvincing to me because of the demand for pay.
:thumbsup: How many people would show up to my office tomorrow if there was no paycheck?

I am in my mid-fifties and nearing retirement. I've experienced a lot of push-back though, mainly getting the "what are you going to do with yourself?" question from just about everyone. I prefer to ask "what am I doing with myself now?" Isn't it funny that nobody asks me "are you happy working?"

It's as if people don't want me to retire because I'm too young. I must say that it's hard not feel a little guilty about the whole thing; society doesn't want me to retire early.

My Dad still works 50-hour weeks in a machine shop, and probably will until the day he dies. I don't think I could ever tell him I'm retired.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by izzy »

SoninlawofGus wrote:
Flaccidsteele wrote: The "I work because I enjoy it" is unconvincing to me because of the demand for pay.
:thumbsup: How many people would show up to my office tomorrow if there was no paycheck?

I am in my mid-fifties and nearing retirement. I've experienced a lot of push-back though, mainly getting the "what are you going to do with yourself?" question from just about everyone. I prefer to ask "what am I doing with myself now?" Isn't it funny that nobody asks me "are you happy working?"

It's as if people don't want me to retire because I'm too young. I must say that it's hard not feel a little guilty about the whole thing; society doesn't want me to retire early.

My Dad still works 50-hour weeks in a machine shop, and probably will until the day he dies. I don't think I could ever tell him I'm retired.
There is a difference between working for a living and being paid to do what you enjoy doing-they used to call the latter a "vocation". Many doctors and lawyers work well past traditional retirement age,often "pro bono" although they may accept payment if it is offered (e.g.under medicare). Some doctors and dentists in fact continue work on a voluntary basis in third world countries if their health (and that of their significant other) holds up and they remain competent,and clergy rarely really retire at all.
There are many other examples-I have a son who is a computer programmer whose main hobby when he is not working is---programming! I doubt HE will ever retire either.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by SQRT »

For a good part of my career, I would have worked for free. Not sure how I would have paid the bills though. In many careers, if you don't feel this way, you won't succeed.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

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izzy wrote:Many doctors and lawyers work well past traditional retirement age,often "pro bono" although they may accept payment if it is offered (e.g.under medicare).
Indeed. I fit under that category, as do some others active on this forum.

There is satisfaction in helping others, and many professionals have specialized skills to do so. Think of it as super-charged volunteer work. Of course, as SQRT points out, we have to pay the bills. But once that is taken care of, that does not mean that we have to stop doing what we enjoy doing.

Some also find satisfaction in learning, including research and teaching others. Many university teachers and researchers go on well past any reasonable retirement age, because they like generating and transmitting knowledge.

I know this may sound strange to some, especially those who were not lucky enough to find work they really liked. But it does happen.

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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by twa2w »

ghariton wrote:
izzy wrote:Many doctors and lawyers work well past traditional retirement age,often "pro bono" although they may accept payment if it is offered (e.g.under medicare).
Indeed. I fit under that category, as do some others active on this forum.

There is satisfaction in helping others, and many professionals have specialized skills to do so. Think of it as super-charged volunteer work. Of course, as SQRT points out, we have to pay the bills. But once that is taken care of, that does not mean that we have to stop doing what we enjoy doing.

Some also find satisfaction in learning, including research and teaching others. Many university teachers and researchers go on well past any reasonable retirement age, because they like generating and transmitting knowledge.

I know this may sound strange to some, especially those who were not lucky enough to find work they really liked. But it does happen.

George
True but a great number of Doctors, lawyers work well past normal retirement because they have to. ( perhaps not fulltime but partime to supplement incone)
Bad investments, not enough savings, late or multiple divorces, living large etc. Much more common than people think. It would be surprising to most people how little prepared many age 50 to 60 doctors are for retirement.
For some reason, this is not so true of dentists in my experience.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by SkaSka »

longinvest wrote:
SkaSka wrote: My conception of retirement is continuing to do what you love because you love doing it without worries. I don't think that ever ends.
SkaSka,

Are you telling me that I'm getting paid to be retired? Nice! :wink:

P.S. My employer does not consider me retired.
Haha it was a little vague what I stated. To clarify, I think the words "without worries" is loaded with whatever meaning we want to put into it.

For me, "without worries" entails not being concerned about income/money, being able to pick up and drop work whenever I feel like it... basically that space where work and fun start to blur together with as much freedom mixed in as possible.

If you get that with your current employer, please let me know who you work for so I can apply! :wink:
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Wallace »

SoninlawofGus wrote:My Dad still works 50-hour weeks in a machine shop, and probably will until the day he dies. I don't think I could ever tell him I'm retired.
Never try to compete with your dad. He's always out of your league no matter what age he is.
And if he isn't, it's best to let him think he is.

:)
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by Flaccidsteele »

As mentioned in this thread, peer relationships and keeping a "much-needed" routine are important for human beings.

If you get rich, you won't quit working for long
There’s another, more egotistical reason why some of us can’t stand not being in the game: status.
Imagine the embarrassment of being so highly-accomplished, so associated with your work successes and then, as time passes, you can’t answer the question of “What do you do?” so easily, says Brooke Harrington professor at the Copenhagen Business School.
Status is another factor that I hadn't taken into account because I never had the goal of achieving a "leadership position" during my career.

I can notice it now when I speak with individuals who are retired who need to point out that they were an "ex-VP" or "former director" or whatnot. This tells me that they are likely status driven and that their identity is tied to their former career.

I recently had dinner with a high school acquaintance that I hadn't seen in over 2 decades. When they asked what I did for work, I simply said "nothing". I didn't think to qualify it. We went on to discuss other, more interesting, topics.
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Re: Retirement - is it over-rated?

Post by kcowan »

I think "nothing" is an extreme, almost insulting answer.

You have to appreciate that your partner in conversation is just looking for common ground.

Often I will say that I was a CEO twice but then quickly move on to what I did. Other times I just focus on the many types of experiences I had without naming positions.

As the years of retirement grow, what I did becomes less relevant.
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