Outstanding Financial Pornography

Asset allocation, risk, diversification and rebalancing. Pros/cons of hiring a financial advisor. Seeking advice on your portfolio?
izzy
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 3019
Joined: 19 Feb 2005 19:06
Location: Winnipeg MB

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by izzy »

I think you guys are missing the more important social impact of an unemployed male becoming financially dependent on his wife's earnings.And I don't just mean the impact on the family dynamics .We may be a more egalitarian society these days but attitudes to men in this situation have not really changed that much.
"I disagree strongly with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Spudd
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 1519
Joined: 22 Sep 2013 14:52

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by Spudd »

izzy wrote:I think you guys are missing the more important social impact of an unemployed male becoming financially dependent on his wife's earnings.And I don't just mean the impact on the family dynamics .We may be a more egalitarian society these days but attitudes to men in this situation have not really changed that much.
I don't know; my husband made around $10-20k/year throughout most of his career while I made 6 figures. I never got the feeling anyone thought poorly of him for this. He contributed in other ways than making money.
User avatar
AltaRed
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 33399
Joined: 05 Mar 2005 20:04
Location: Ogopogo Land

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by AltaRed »

Spudd wrote:I don't know; my husband made around $10-20k/year throughout most of his career while I made 6 figures. I never got the feeling anyone thought poorly of him for this. He contributed in other ways than making money.
:thumbsup: One of DW's daughters earns more than her husband, and he does most of the cooking and the raising of the 2 boys. I can think of no one in their circle or the family tree thinks less of him because of it.
Imagefiniki, the Canadian financial wiki The go-to place to bolster your financial freedom
izzy
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 3019
Joined: 19 Feb 2005 19:06
Location: Winnipeg MB

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by izzy »

Not quite the same thing.We are told about a man who used to be the principle breadwinner and who is unhappy about that no longer being the case.It's not a logical response but for many men it is a likely one-not everyone can easily accept such a reversal of roles and that can lead to other than financial strains in a marriage.
"I disagree strongly with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
cashinstinct
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 203
Joined: 01 May 2008 00:35

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by cashinstinct »

Anyway, considering their habits and age, I would suggest they both work a little longer to have a bigger nestegg for retirement... if they "need' 90k after tax per year, they probably could benefit from more savings to be safe.
THEMAINEVENT
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 154
Joined: 31 Aug 2010 10:10

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by THEMAINEVENT »

izzy wrote:I think you guys are missing the more important social impact of an unemployed male becoming financially dependent on his wife's earnings.And I don't just mean the impact on the family dynamics .We may be a more egalitarian society these days but attitudes to men in this situation have not really changed that much.
One of my female employees made $500k last year while her husband stays home with the kids, going on 5 years now. I don't see an issue and they sure seem happy.
User avatar
IdOp
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 3873
Joined: 16 Feb 2006 11:27
Location: On the Pacific sea bed, 100 mi off the CA coast.
Contact:

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by IdOp »

Adviser fees may leave people `doubly shocked' (Globe & Mail)

For the most part, neither a great nor a horrible article, but there's one section of unadulterated fin-pr0n near the end.
ETFs can be volatile, cautions Russ Elford, wealth adviser with Investment Planning Counsel in Edmonton.
Sounds scary. :shock: Quick, somebody hold my hand.
"The most successful investor on the planet, Warren Buffett, does not buy ETFs," Mr. Elford adds. "What he does buy is very good, high-quality companies that he understands tremendously well, and that's where his wealth is created, not by speculating on the market."
There you have it, ETF ownership is nothing but market speculation. Let's face it, they're just no damn good, cuz they're not what Buffett does.
If an investor wants to invest in individual stocks, he suggests they emulate Mr. Buffett, using a defined, clear, disciplined process that involves ongoing monitoring of investments to provide as much predictability and certainty as possible. "Own the best and leave the rest," he says. ...
Sounds complicated, maybe I should just let Mr. Elford manage my money instead. If he's expert in this process he must be nearly as wealthy as Buffett. Funny he didn't just recommend buying BRK.B though. :?
User avatar
kcowan
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 16033
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 20:33
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by kcowan »

IdOp wrote:Adviser fees may leave people `doubly shocked' (Globe & Mail)

For the most part, neither a great nor a horrible article, but there's one section of unadulterated fin-pr0n near the end.
Expect to see a lot more articles promoting stock picking/active management now that people become aware of the costs of having someone look after their money.
For the fun of it...Keith
User avatar
scomac
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 7788
Joined: 19 Feb 2005 09:47
Location: The Gateway to Wine Country

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by scomac »

kcowan wrote:
IdOp wrote:Adviser fees may leave people `doubly shocked' (Globe & Mail)

For the most part, neither a great nor a horrible article, but there's one section of unadulterated fin-pr0n near the end.
Expect to see a lot more articles promoting stock picking/active management now that people become aware of the costs of having someone look after their money.
That has certainly been the recurring theme on Market Call of late. Perhaps it has always been, I don't know, as my viewing of that show has been sporadic at best.

The best line I heard was something like this:

It has taken 30 years to convince people that they way to succeed in the markets is through broad market ownership. Not coincidentally, those successes have been on the back of a 30 year secular bull market. Today, you want to focus on market leaders because there will be winners and losers that can be exploited due to the lack of people focusing on stock picking as more and more money is indiscriminately deployed into the market as a whole.

Hasn't that always been the way that active management has been rationalized? ISTM that the demise of security analysis has been greatly exaggerated!

:roll:
"On what principle is it, that when we see nothing but improvement behind us, we are to expect nothing but deterioration before us?"
Thomas Babington Macaulay in 1830
User avatar
AltaRed
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 33399
Joined: 05 Mar 2005 20:04
Location: Ogopogo Land

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by AltaRed »

I don't know that I have seen more of it, but those kinds of comments seem to be more 'front and center' recently.

I don't spend any quality time reading the financial press, but I have not seen any headlines from 'reporters' and 'talk show hosts' discussing the impact/backlash from the new CRM2 reporting. Example: Wifey often watches 'Power and Politics' on CBC news channel and that then spills over to 'On the Money'. Have never overhead anything on cost reporting, nor has she mentioned it to me either. Is there that much apathy amongst the average retail investor?
Imagefiniki, the Canadian financial wiki The go-to place to bolster your financial freedom
User avatar
ghariton
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 15954
Joined: 18 Feb 2005 18:59
Location: Ottawa

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by ghariton »

AltaRed wrote:Is there that much apathy amongst the average retail investor?
I have coffee with an 82-year-old who otherwise is quite sharp. He uses a full service broker. When I point out how much money this is costing him, he shrugs it off, saying "I'm doing all right". So I would say that the long bull market is what has helped the active managers stay in business, not what has motivated people to switch to passive investment.

I further suspect that the next bear market (which is coming), will see unsophisticated people, as always, pull out of equities completely, despite the reassuring words of the active money managers. (Hand-holding financial advisers may help a bit, but if you're that insecure about your money, my bet is that you're going to run for the hills anyway.)

George
The juice is worth the squeeze
OnlyMyOpinion
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 4231
Joined: 24 Jan 2014 23:17

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by OnlyMyOpinion »

ghariton wrote:...I further suspect that the next bear market (which is coming), will see unsophisticated people, as always, pull out of equities completely, despite the reassuring words of the active money managers. (Hand-holding financial advisers may help a bit, but if you're that insecure about your money, my bet is that you're going to run for the hills anyway.)
George
Yes, it will be in massive market corrections that FA's can save those clients from themselves and earn their stripes. I suspect we may see more of the recent, post-2009 passive DIY's panic and lock in losses if they are not fully committed to/convinced of long term.
User avatar
kcowan
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 16033
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 20:33
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by kcowan »

I believe that CRM2 has not been even remotely explained to the average full service client. These people are marketing professionals who will explain away everything.
For the fun of it...Keith
User avatar
scomac
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 7788
Joined: 19 Feb 2005 09:47
Location: The Gateway to Wine Country

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by scomac »

OnlyMyOpinion wrote:
ghariton wrote:...I further suspect that the next bear market (which is coming), will see unsophisticated people, as always, pull out of equities completely, despite the reassuring words of the active money managers. (Hand-holding financial advisers may help a bit, but if you're that insecure about your money, my bet is that you're going to run for the hills anyway.)
George
Yes, it will be in massive market corrections that FA's can save those clients from themselves and earn their stripes. I suspect we may see more of the recent, post-2009 passive DIY's panic and lock in losses if they are not fully committed to/convinced of long term.
I have a lady friend who has never gotten back in since the credit crisis of 2008-09. I've had conversations with her about it and getting back in. Her son has had conversations with her about it and getting back in. But there's always some excuse. I think that she's convinced it's all a scam. She doesn't trust any advisor and she probably doesn't really trust herself to stay the course; it's easier to stand aside.

The irony of the above situation is that my friend watches business TV everyday! It's not like she is a know nothing retail investor.

Fortunately, she doesn't have to get back in. She has a very good DB pension, a paid for townhouse and BMW and more than enough savings to keep her in travel and other desires without having to extend beyond the safety of GICs. I doubt that her situation is common though, but maybe I'm mistaken.
"On what principle is it, that when we see nothing but improvement behind us, we are to expect nothing but deterioration before us?"
Thomas Babington Macaulay in 1830
User avatar
kcowan
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 16033
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 20:33
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by kcowan »

scomac wrote:Fortunately, she doesn't have to get back in. She has a very good DB pension, a paid for townhouse and BMW and more than enough savings to keep her in travel and other desires without having to extend beyond the safety of GICs. I doubt that her situation is common though, but maybe I'm mistaken.
I think you are mistaken. There are a bunch of senior investors who are being managed by people who will not touch equities. And they get 1% for rolling over the GICs and Bonds in the ladder every year.

It is not without benefits though, They call them every quarter to tell them what they are doing and once a year they take them out for lunch and also buy them a plant for Christmas!

Sadly who ends up paying for all that is their heirs.
For the fun of it...Keith
izzy
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 3019
Joined: 19 Feb 2005 19:06
Location: Winnipeg MB

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by izzy »

At 65 one may be prepared to take a risk for long term reward,at 75 one becomes more reluctant but at 85 long term becomes tomorrow!
"I disagree strongly with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
User avatar
scomac
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 7788
Joined: 19 Feb 2005 09:47
Location: The Gateway to Wine Country

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by scomac »

kcowan wrote:
scomac wrote:Fortunately, she doesn't have to get back in. She has a very good DB pension, a paid for townhouse and BMW and more than enough savings to keep her in travel and other desires without having to extend beyond the safety of GICs. I doubt that her situation is common though, but maybe I'm mistaken.
I think you are mistaken. There are a bunch of senior investors who are being managed by people who will not touch equities. And they get 1% for rolling over the GICs and Bonds in the ladder every year.

It is not without benefits though, They call them every quarter to tell them what they are doing and once a year they take them out for lunch and also buy them a plant for Christmas!

Sadly who ends up paying for all that is their heirs.
I laughed when I read the bolded part. Reminds me of a friend whose dentist treats his patients to a fancy Christmas party at a high end banquet hall. :shock:

I've also heard some interesting stories of graft coming back to clients from certain IG advisors. My response was: You do realize that you're paying for that! Oh no. I don't pay anything for the service... :roll:
"On what principle is it, that when we see nothing but improvement behind us, we are to expect nothing but deterioration before us?"
Thomas Babington Macaulay in 1830
User avatar
kcowan
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 16033
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 20:33
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by kcowan »

scomac wrote:I've also heard some interesting stories of graft coming back to clients from certain IG advisors. My response was: You do realize that you're paying for that! Oh no. I don't pay anything for the service... :roll:
When I completed my divorce agreement, my lawyer and I celebrated by going out to dinner. I said I will pay for dinner if you don't bill for the time! He agreed. :thumbsup:
For the fun of it...Keith
par4
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 525
Joined: 26 Feb 2005 00:36

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by par4 »

Is it customary for an IA to charge his fee separately on the American portion of your account? I notice it is in US $ plus GST/PST.
gobsmack
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 447
Joined: 04 Sep 2015 13:16

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by gobsmack »

cashinstinct wrote:Seems like they only pick rich people for these profiles
Maybe they read FWF:
http://business.financialpost.com/perso ... retirement
User avatar
SkaSka
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 727
Joined: 29 Nov 2012 01:21
Location: Raincouver

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by SkaSka »

I was trying to decide whether this belonged here or in the Housing Bust 2017 thread...

Some Quotes from the Toronto Real Estate Wealth Expo:
What’s the most useful thing you learned at the expo?
“Don’t take advice from non-doers and keep only positive people around you. I’m going to look into getting a spiritual mediator.”

What’s the future of Toronto’s real estate?
“I think it’s going to go even more sky-high.”
What’s the most useful thing you learned at the expo?
“Don’t take advice from non-doers and keep only positive people around you. I’m going to look into getting a spiritual mediator.”

What’s the future of Toronto’s real estate?
“I think it’s going to go even more sky-high.”
What’s the most useful thing you learned at the expo?
“I learned that every opportunity that you don’t take is an opportunity missed. It’s all about turning opportunities into possibilities.”

What’s the future of Toronto’s real estate?
“I think it’s positive that there are many foreign investors with a lot of capital, so I think the market will continue to exponentially increase.”
Those were just a few of the highlights.

Honestly, Pitbull and Tony Robbins - two Americans - pumping up inflated Canadian real estate to Canadians... and the Canadians in attendance are eating it up??? You can't make this stuff up!
Profit not Prophet
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 948
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 14:24
Location: Southern Ontario aka not TO

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by Profit not Prophet »

Fascinating link. A small sample of people but... the older they were the more likely to be a bit more cautious or at least not chugging the cool-aide with one hand not both. Made me think back to the trade show scene in 'the big short'.
Flaccidsteele
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 4523
Joined: 06 Mar 2014 12:52
Location: Retired Gen Xer somewhere on the planet earth

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by Flaccidsteele »

Profit not Prophet wrote: 22 Mar 2017 10:38 Fascinating link. A small sample of people but... the older they were the more likely to be a bit more cautious or at least not chugging the cool-aide with one hand not both. Made me think back to the trade show scene in 'the big short'.
How about older individuals who give money for their kids to 'invest' in Toronto real estate? Is this different from drinking the kool-aid?
ig17
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 3418
Joined: 21 Feb 2005 20:54

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by ig17 »

ETF Industry Exposure & Financial Services ETF (TETF) Launches April 20th, Providing Access to Full Range of Companies Driving ETF Industry Growth

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2 ... s-ETF-TETF
NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--The ETF Industry Exposure & Financial Services ETF (NYSE Arca: TETF), will begin trading today, April 20, 2017, providing investors with a single point of access to the companies driving and participating in the growth of the Exchange Traded Funds industry.

TETF will seek to track, before fees and expenses, the price and yield performance of the Toroso ETF Industry Index (the Index), which is designed to provide exposure to the publicly traded companies that derive revenue from the ETF industry. This includes ETF sponsors, index and data companies, trading and custody providers, liquidity providers, and exchanges.
Or, as someone quipped on twitter:

"Yo Dawg, I heard you like ETFs so we put ETFs inside your ETFs"
BRIAN5000
Veteran Contributor
Veteran Contributor
Posts: 9064
Joined: 08 Jun 2007 23:27

Re: Outstanding Financial Pornography

Post by BRIAN5000 »

The outperformance of smaller sectors and the outsized contributions of a few stocks makes the case for active stock picking rather than passive investing, said Norman Levine, managing director at Toronto-based Portfolio Management Corp.

“People think that they get broad diversification by investing in an index. Instead, they end up owning a large number of stocks that have no meaning and a few momentum stocks,” Mr. Levine said in a phone interview. “This great love affair of ETFs that invest in the index is such a joke.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-in ... 566/?ord=1
This information is believed to be from reliable sources but may include rumor and speculation. Accuracy is not guaranteed
Post Reply