Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

Post by kcowan »

Having commuted 75 minutes one way in my car in Toronto for too long with no choice, I would find a way to use transit even if it meant leaving the car up north on Monday and then driving home on Friday. Time on transit is totally productive time these days.
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

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kcowan wrote:Having commuted 75 minutes one way in my car in Toronto for too long with no choice, I would find a way to use transit even if it meant leaving the car up north on Monday and then driving home on Friday. Time on transit is totally productive time these days.
"Ride and park" approaches have been used in some other cities to help reverse commuters but it's not possible in Toronto. AFAIK none of the commuter lots allow overnight parking.

I don't know about "productive time"... there is nothing I can do for my job that can be done remotely.
adrian2 wrote: If your aim is to be at work on or before 9 am, you might find that using a car would not be a great improvement, time-wise, compared to Viva.
From where I am now, the Viva stops just aren't close enough to where I live and will be working. So you add the walking-or-connection time, plus the time it takes for the bus to pull into the terminal around Yonge and 7, and it adds up to at least double the driving time. The buses that skip the Yonge/7 terminal are only in the with-rush direction. I have a reasonable suspicion that whatever signal-priority measures are available to Viva on Yonge are only used the with-rush direction too.

Basically what it comes down to is - if the contra-rush Yonge buses had any meaningful way of going twice as fast as the cars, only then would it save any time over driving.
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

Post by steves »

Withdrawl time???? I thought this was a discussion about sexual technique and the rhythm method..... not commuting to TO.
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

Post by ghariton »

steves wrote:Withdrawl time???? I thought this was a discussion about sexual technique and the rhythm method..... not commuting to TO.
:lol:

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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

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steves wrote:Withdrawl time???? I thought this was a discussion about sexual technique and the rhythm method..... not commuting to TO.
LOL, it's not like I've ever been in a position to require birth control methods.
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

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Well... that lasted 7 weeks. I suppose that's better than the 2-week false start last time. I am once again freshly unemployed. Was 6 weeks short of having enough hours for EI in Ontario.

Apparently my own unique way of experiencing the world around me did not mesh well with the people whose call it was whether to keep me around. The job called for the kind of person who can withstand being frequently interrupted in the midst of delicate tasks and spare the necessary brainpower to both interpret said information and also do so politely. And apparently also who can learn how to sit down with a complex scientific instrument he last used 10 years ago and within 2 weeks master it enough to push samples out quickly without making any associated errors. I'm an excellent learner but those expectations were never clearly put forward to me. I become very good at self-correcting.... in a *few* weeks' time, not 2.

Anyway it's over. My immediate supervisor (at least for the last 2 weeks) was very surprised and sad, and lamented that I'm her daughter's age and was full of sympathy. We traded contacts and she hugged me. I came home and fought hard to halt any overly eager conversations about what I am going to do next. I know this place was a bad fit but it's still been a pretty demoralizing experience, that in the span of 16 months I've only been able to manage 9 weeks of work in my field.
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

Post by kcowan »

queerasmoi wrote: I know this place was a bad fit but it's still been a pretty demoralizing experience, that in the span of 16 months I've only been able to manage 9 weeks of work in my field.
If you felt it was a bad fit, then your judgement is good. You need to seek out a good fit...

(I know this is easy to say, but it is the truth...)
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

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Bad fits will kill both you and your career if you stay too long.
Sic transit gloria mundi. Tuesday is usually worse. - Robert A. Heinlein, Starman Jones
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

Post by queerasmoi »

kcowan wrote:
queerasmoi wrote: I know this place was a bad fit but it's still been a pretty demoralizing experience, that in the span of 16 months I've only been able to manage 9 weeks of work in my field.
If you felt it was a bad fit, then your judgement is good. You need to seek out a good fit...

(I know this is easy to say, but it is the truth...)
Shakespeare wrote:Bad fits will kill both you and your career if you stay too long.
Yeah, but it's easier to be choosy in an environment where jobs actually exist in my field. After a 14 months without work and a change of city it was a relief to get an interview and an offer. Now I am 16 months out from the original layoff only having managed 9 weeks of work total during that period. I'm feeling pretty damn worthless and at a loss for what to do next.
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

Post by Shakespeare »

You may have to consider non-lab options. If you are good with people, most lab equipment manufacturers require technical expertise for sales rep, for example. Not my thing, but not everybody is as peoplephobic as I am.
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

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queerasmoi wrote: Yeah, but it's easier to be choosy in an environment where jobs actually exist in my field. After a 14 months without work and a change of city it was a relief to get an interview and an offer. Now I am 16 months out from the original layoff only having managed 9 weeks of work total during that period. I'm feeling pretty damn worthless and at a loss for what to do next.
You don't need to feel worthless. Many a time I have had problems at work and have come seeking some input on fixing the instruments and stuff and you have always either given me the answer or at least put me in the right direction to fix things. You know your stuff and you know it well.

Maybe take a week and relax, spend some time with your family, and gather your thoughts and de-stress. Then go back with a fresh mind and find that job that fits. You are at least closer to where all the jobs in our field are located, so it should be more fruitful than here in the most expensive place on Earth.

I'll keep my ears open for any job openings. We are buying some new equipment for the lab, so lots of company reps coming in trying to make a sale. Those salesmen like to talk.
Give a man a fish, and that man knows where to come for fish. Teach a man to fish, and you've just destroyed your market base.
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

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Shakespeare wrote:You may have to consider non-lab options. If you are good with people, most lab equipment manufacturers require technical expertise for sales rep, for example. Not my thing, but not everybody is as peoplephobic as I am.
I would love to work for an instrument vendor although I doubt sales is my thing. More into something scientific. Those jobs are highly coveted and I have applied for many.
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

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MALDI_ToF wrote:
I'll keep my ears open for any job openings. We are buying some new equipment for the lab, so lots of company reps coming in trying to make a sale. Those salesmen like to talk.
Thanks D. Much appreciated.
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

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Well I don't have any good news to report lately about the job hunt. Lots of applications, no interviews.

However I decided to go for a round of psychoeducational testing in October. I got an 80% subsidy for the cost of this testing due to my meagre income. The results took over 6 weeks to get back to me, but now this week I have the report.

Apparently I have a non-verbal learning disability. Which is perhaps something that nobody would have ever thought to look for in my adult life because learning has always been one of the things I've done very well. But this assessment highlighted some start contrasts between my proficiencies and deficiencies.

As an example, Math: On a problem solving test I measured at the 97th percentile. On a numerical operations subtest, 99th percentile. On a speed arithmetic test where I had to handwrite answers to as many short arithmetic questions in a limited timespan... 12th percentile! I'm a great thinker and problem solver but the bottlenecks were visuospatial and fine motor skills. And frankly I was never great at arithmetic and only started to be good at math when it got more complex.

My processing speed tested as Average compared to much higher scores on verbal comprehension, perceptual reasoning, working memory.

Oh about that. Working memory. When numbers were used for a working memory test I did exceptionally well. 99th percentile. Wait, what about a verbal memory test consisting of a disjoint list of words? Uh oh, 16th percentile. Okay, why not just read me a 30-second story and get me to parrot all the relevant details back to you? Holy hell, 5th percentile. Well then how about visual? If they're geometric designs, 16th percentile. Pictorial details in social scenes? 9th percentile. On average my visual memory is inferior to 92% of the population.

It's evident to me now that I have developed a set of coping strategies that worked really well for me in academic learning environments. If you stand and deliver me a lesson I will listen and fail to remember. So I take notes. I spend time running over the information in my mind to better encode it in my memory. I form concepts that are easier to remember than facts. I ask questions because interactivity helps my memory too.

Unfortunately my coping mechanisms are not well-designed for the workplace. If a laboratory supervisor tries to train me on something and I respond by continually asking questions before they're done and asking them to repeat details they've already said, they will not be very happy with me. If my hands are too occupied by a fine motor task and my mind is too occupied with compensating for my fine motor weakness, my interactivity will be impaired and any new information given to me will be an order of magnitude harder to encode. But if I have a handy point-form list in front of me, containing every detail I needed to know so far, the cognitive load drops considerably and I can focus on remembering new things.

Reading through the summary, I think to myself: If I'd had this assessment in my hands before university, maybe I would have thought twice before choosing a chemistry degree, instead opting for something less demanding of my visual and fine motor faculties. Or even if I'd proceeded, I would have been searching for appropriate coping skills a long time ago.

So I'm just at the stage where I found it out this week. I have not really yet processed how this will guide my path forward into further career coaching and job searching. And to be honest the job I did in Vancouver before the company closed down was not really affected by my particular weakness, save for my boss getting a tad irritated with an endless stream of minor questions.

But obviously, this will affect my career. I need to consider how to best use my strengths, cope with my weaknesses, and navigate a job market that is tacitly unfriendly to accommodating invisible disabilities.
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

Post by MALDI_ToF »

Interesting math results. Perhaps on the speed test you should have spent the time to come up with a function relating score, answering and time spent and taken the derivative in order to maximize your score (accounting for the time needed to work out opitmal conditions)!! :)

I wonder if you could get permission to record your training sessions in the workplace. This way you can replay them and make notes on your own time, extract all you can, then go back and ask further questions for clarification or more detail. Might be a way to avoid constantly asking questions during training.

I think your only weakness is in the initial learning stage. Once you know the material, you seem to be able to retain it easily. You just take a bit longer than some to get information into your long term memory. Perhaps this is missed as during education, teachers expect lots of questions and are not bothered by students asking questions repeatedly as well as the fact that there is more time to digest the material. In the workplace you are expected to take it all in like a sponge, and very quickly as well. The people training are also not necessarily trained as teachers and could be less understanding (or poor teachers).

I think one of your best strengths is to troubleshoot problems, applying what you have learned. You need to sell that. Your challenge will be getting past the initial stage of taking in knowledge and getting to the point where you are providing your knowledge (or utilizing it).

(I think I would be as bad as you in the visual memory...same with the story. I was awful at analysing books in English as I could never remember any details)
Give a man a fish, and that man knows where to come for fish. Teach a man to fish, and you've just destroyed your market base.
1,1,2,1,3,2,3,1,4,3,5,2,5,3,4,1,5,4,1,5,4,7,3,8,5,7,2,7,5,....
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

Post by queerasmoi »

Thanks D.
MALDI_ToF wrote: I wonder if you could get permission to record your training sessions in the workplace. This way you can replay them and make notes on your own time, extract all you can, then go back and ask further questions for clarification or more detail. Might be a way to avoid constantly asking questions during training.
It was one of the suggested accommodations, but I don't know how practical this is in science workplaces. Many have significant confidentiality clauses and higher-ups would be incredibly uncomfortable with recording devices.
MALDI_ToF wrote: Perhaps this is missed as during education, teachers expect lots of questions and are not bothered by students asking questions repeatedly as well as the fact that there is more time to digest the material. In the workplace you are expected to take it all in like a sponge, and very quickly as well. The people training are also not necessarily trained as teachers and could be less understanding (or poor teachers).
I think I have also had a tendency to treat bosses like profs. Which turns out not to work so well!
MALDI_ToF wrote:
I think one of your best strengths is to troubleshoot problems, applying what you have learned. You need to sell that. Your challenge will be getting past the initial stage of taking in knowledge and getting to the point where you are providing your knowledge (or utilizing it).
I would say I'm good with problem solving too. The rudimentary tests suggested though that I have some processing delays so that affects problem solving for me. Hence any processing whether simple or complex has a bit of a delay for me; however because I'm good at actually solving the problems, I'll end up doing those faster than the general population.
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

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Further updates on my saga:

In April I started working part-time at a tutoring agency working with high school students in Math & Science. They tried to also get me to teach a credit course in Physics (yes in Ontario you can walk into anywhere licensed as a private high school and teach a credit course with no certificate) and it reinforced my decision that I'm not a suitable classroom teacher. I offloaded that responsibility to someone else and continued on with just the tutoring. That's wound down now for the summer.

After enough languishing in the nonexistent job market for my field, I am taking a U-turn. September I'm moving to Kitchener to take a 1-year graduate certificate program in the IT field that includes a co-op. "The dream" is for the co-op (and wherever I work afterwards) to take me back to the GTA and have me working on a transit corridor so I can finally enjoy that city lifestyle I could never get with the science jobs that aren't there. Or an alternate dream (possibly mutually incompatible) is for this to take me back into a scientific organization but in a better-valued role. But I won't let either of those limit me.

I don't know if I'm actually going to *enjoy* working in this field but I believe I have the intellect for it. And the important thing is, they're hiring. It's just about the only field that's still on a hiring spree that I could train for in a short period.

It looks like this gamble will gobble up my cash emergency fund and maybe 10% of my nest egg. However if it pays off dividends in the form of steady work then it's a much better return on investment than anything you could ask me to invest in. If it doesn't then there is no hope left for my generation anyways. :P
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

Post by Wallace »

In the IT field there seem to be a lot of manuals and online information. Use lots of yellow marker.

I used to take screeds of notes at university and when going through them I covered the important bits with yellow marker. Then I'd go through the yellow marker bits and make a shorter set of notes. Even then I'd end up yellow-marking the short version.

Now, when I go to a seminar, I take my laptop and make notes. Then when I get home I highlight the important bits. Otherwise I'd never remember anything either.

Good luck with the new chapter of your life. Maybe while you're here in KW FWF can arrange a get-together for beer (or beverage of choice).
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

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All the lectures appear to be in computer labs so it looks like I'll always have somewhere to type. I can always substitute bold for yellow marker :)
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

Post by Bylo Selhi »

Wallace wrote:Good luck with the new chapter of your life. Maybe while you're here in KW FWF can arrange a get-together for beer (or beverage of choice).
Ditto with your plans. With the nice weather recently I was thinking about an FWF get-together. There are now three great places to choose from in Uptown Waterloo alone: The Duke, Beertown and Abe Erb.
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

Post by brucecohen »

queerasmoi wrote:September I'm moving to Kitchener to take a 1-year graduate certificate program in the IT field that includes a co-op.
Will you attend a recognized school like Waterloo or a private one? If private, I'd be wary and triple-check if there really are co-op placements and what the students in them do.

Best of luck!
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

Post by Shakespeare »

Best of luck. There should certainly be more choice of job location than in analytical chemistry.
Sic transit gloria mundi. Tuesday is usually worse. - Robert A. Heinlein, Starman Jones
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

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Bylo Selhi wrote:
Wallace wrote:Good luck with the new chapter of your life. Maybe while you're here in KW FWF can arrange a get-together for beer (or beverage of choice).
Ditto with your plans. With the nice weather recently I was thinking about an FWF get-together. There are now three great places to choose from in Uptown Waterloo alone: The Duke, Beertown and Abe Erb.
Sounds good. I think Q mentioned that he would be in KW from September on. I'll be out of country from Sep 17-Oct 2. Otherwise I'm free. Don't care where we go. :beer:
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

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brucecohen wrote: Will you attend a recognized school like Waterloo or a private one? If private, I'd be wary and triple-check if there really are co-op placements and what the students in them do.

Best of luck!
Co-op program at a public college. I just don't want to give exact details because if I name the program outright this thread becomes Google-able and perhaps classmates would find me on here.
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

Post by brucecohen »

queerasmoi wrote: Co-op program at a public college.
Good. FWIW years ago my ex decided to change careers and did an IT co-op program at Seneca College. The coursework and co-op placement were both excellent and her co-op employer hired her full-time on graduation. Several Ontario colleges have strong reputations for nuts and bolts IT training that's totally business-oriented.
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