Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

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northbeach
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Re: Withdrawal time...

Post by northbeach »

Pickles wrote:One step forward, one step back. Hard on the spirits especially when you're starting to make plans for your future.

Be gracious and then push for an exemplary letter of reference from them. At this time of year, you might be able to pick up some casual pt time work to supplement EI, while you regroup.

All the best, queerasmoi.
In full agreement with Pickles.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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Pickles wrote:One step forward, one step back. Hard on the spirits especially when you're starting to make plans for your future.

Be gracious and then push for an exemplary letter of reference from them. At this time of year, you might be able to pick up some casual pt time work to supplement EI, while you regroup.

All the best, queerasmoi.
Yes, well, not in my industry anyway. Might prefer to just enjoy low key holidays rather than, say, try to work retail.

I did the math: the difference in net earnings received over the course of this and the last three weeks, between my current situation and if I'd never gone on EI, is close to $1000. Plus two additional weeks available to my claim. My reopening of EI may take up to a month to process though, so that difference should cover me until I get that money (which will be retroactive to the day it reopened).
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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EI actually reopened quite quickly. Yay for gov't occasionally being efficient.

The rollercoaster continues. I got an e-mail from another place, a larger employer with more history, located maybe a block from the last one. They offered me an interview early next week. Turns out a contact of mine worked there for 2 years and knows nearly all of my interview committee, and has nothing but good things to say about the place. So this could be a promising opportunity. Fingers crossed.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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queerasmoi wrote:EI actually reopened quite quickly. Yay for gov't occasionally being efficient.

The rollercoaster continues. I got an e-mail from another place, a larger employer with more history, located maybe a block from the last one. They offered me an interview early next week. Turns out a contact of mine worked there for 2 years and knows nearly all of my interview committee, and has nothing but good things to say about the place. So this could be a promising opportunity. Fingers crossed.
:thumbsup:
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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The interview for said job, early last week, was excellent in my view. They said I would hear back early-to-mid-this-past-week. I did not hear from them all week. Sigh.

I also applied for another job which turned out, in a roundabout way, to be the same job I was laid off from 9 months ago. A company from out of province is working on an agreement to buy out the lab I worked in, take over the leases on the instruments and hire new staff. The difference is there would be no F/T managers on site. The lab staff would take on basic management and QA responsibilities and the rest would be delegated up to managers out of province who are only occasionally present. This could theoretically mean better pay than last time but it sounds like they're still planning to be very bare-bones about the employment, i.e. legal bare minimum 2 weeks vacation, no health plan until 3 months probation. And I'd have to go back to the same car commute I hated, to the same industrial park without a single restaurant in walking distance, and this city is getting lonely.

So... I think I'm starting to arrive at a more concrete plan. I have concluded so far that nobody across the country is interested in even talking to me when I apply to work there, because there are enough local applicants that I just don't stand out. Up until now I've been saying I won't move without a job offer. But I can't stay in BC like this forever. I am increasingly getting the feeling BC is just not the place where I will feel a sense of belonging, much less meet someone, fall in love, etc.

Hence my new Plan B. If the only job I can get is the one I know is going to grind me down, then my number one financial goal is to double my cash emergency fund. Once I reach my cash goal, if I'm still unhappy here, I quit with no regrets and move.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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queerasmoi wrote:The interview for said job, early last week, was excellent in my view. They said I would hear back early-to-mid-this-past-week. I did not hear from them all week. Sigh.

I also applied for another job which turned out, in a roundabout way, to be the same job I was laid off from 9 months ago. A company from out of province is working on an agreement to buy out the lab I worked in, take over the leases on the instruments and hire new staff. The difference is there would be no F/T managers on site. The lab staff would take on basic management and QA responsibilities and the rest would be delegated up to managers out of province who are only occasionally present. This could theoretically mean better pay than last time but it sounds like they're still planning to be very bare-bones about the employment, i.e. legal bare minimum 2 weeks vacation, no health plan until 3 months probation. And I'd have to go back to the same car commute I hated, to the same industrial park without a single restaurant in walking distance, and this city is getting lonely.

So... I think I'm starting to arrive at a more concrete plan. I have concluded so far that nobody across the country is interested in even talking to me when I apply to work there, because there are enough local applicants that I just don't stand out. Up until now I've been saying I won't move without a job offer. But I can't stay in BC like this forever. I am increasingly getting the feeling BC is just not the place where I will feel a sense of belonging, much less meet someone, fall in love, etc.


Hence my new Plan B. If the only job I can get is the one I know is going to grind me down, then my number one financial goal is to double my cash emergency fund. Once I reach my cash goal, if I'm still unhappy here, I quit with no regrets and move.

Seems like a very sensible train of thought. BC is great, but it's not the entire world and there are plenty of other places that might have jobs that suit your qualifications. From someone who has done it - moving was the best move we ever made. The Canadian high arctic plus 2 other continents. Best of luck!

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Re: Withdrawal time...

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2 yen wrote:
Seems like a very sensible train of thought. BC is great, but it's not the entire world and there are plenty of other places that might have jobs that suit your qualifications. From someone who has done it - moving was the best move we ever made. The Canadian high arctic plus 2 other continents. Best of luck!

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Thanks! At this stage if I move again it has to be to ON for a while, or somewhere within periodic driving distance. Being perpetually trapped in jobs that only offer minimum vacation will make me feel neglectful of my family over time and I have been far away from them for too many years.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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queerasmoi wrote:This could theoretically mean better pay than last time but it sounds like they're still planning to be very bare-bones about the employment, i.e. legal bare minimum 2 weeks vacation, no health plan until 3 months probation.
In every job I've ever worked, this is standard practice. Took me five years to earn three weeks vacation. Apart from that, how you take vacation could be dangerous. Gone for a week, not one misses you, but go for two weeks, your irreplacebility is questioned -- unless you're constantly monitoring your email. Take mat/pat leave and you're replaced. Your job is redefined out of existence.

Not that I mind. It shows that your first loyalty is to yourself, not your employer.
Last edited by parvus on 14 Dec 2013 20:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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It's never easy being on the job hunt. You definately have a decent spirit about it all though. I'm sure you'll find something.

A smaller lab that I'm loosely related to has been growing recently. I don't know anything about their current needs, but wouldn't hurt to give them a try: BC Research. They are out in Burnaby.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll find something.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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parvus wrote: In every job I've ever worked, this is standard practice. Took me five years to earn three weeks vacation. Apart from that, how you take vacation could be dangerous. Gone for a week, not one misses you, but go for two weeks, your irreplacebility is questioned -- unless you're constantly monitoring your email. Take mat/pat leave and you're replaced. Your job is redefined out of existence.

Not that I mind. It shows that your first loyalty is to yourself, not your employer.
Yeah, well, if I'm going to have to wait out 5 years at a job to earn my third week of vacation, then:
- It better be a company that I have confidence will still be operating in a capacity that requires me 5 years hence. Otherwise that promise in the employment contract means zilch. The opportunity I suspect I might be offered next week does not have that type of confidence attached.
- I don't want it to be in a city so far away from my family that I spend all my meagre vacation visiting them. If I am close enough to see them on evenings and weekends, at least I get those two weeks to myself. I don't want to have to make the choice between travelling for leisure and being in my niece's life.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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queerasmoi wrote:Yeah, well, if I'm going to have to wait out 5 years at a job to earn my third week of vacation...
It depends on the employer and how badly they want you. This is something that's fully negotiable, especially with smaller companies, just like salary. For example it's not unusual for an industry veteran to ask their new employer to recognize some or even all of their years of experience for calculating the number of weeks of vacation eligibility.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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Hmm. This could get more complicated. At my last full-time job, I was on contract for the first three years, so no benefits or vacation. (But by informal agreement, I did take time off.) My question was whether I would have to wait another five years to get the extra week of vacation once I became permanent staff. I didn't. But I rarely took vacations anyway, preferring to take an occasional Friday off.

Anyway, the company I worked for was ranked among the top 100 workplaces (and for statutory holidays, we had a "floater" we could take any time, making for 10 days in all). I believe it would have taken 10 years to earn four weeks vacation. As I recollect, you got an extra day for every year of service. This is pretty standard HR procedure.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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Bylo Selhi wrote:It depends on the employer and how badly they want you. This is something that's fully negotiable, especially with smaller companies, just like salary. For example it's not unusual for an industry veteran to ask their new employer to recognize some or even all of their years of experience for calculating the number of weeks of vacation eligibility.
I don't have a great deal of leverage. An MSc degree and one year of industry experience. The only trump card I really hold is that I've worked in that lab space before and hence may be able to help get things running sooner. And a typical response to trying to negotiate vacation is "We've started all our other employees off at this same level and we don't think it would be fair to increase that for a new hire."

I don't know how old you are, Bylo, but whenever I hear someone in my parents' age bracket say that vacation is negotiable, it sounds like a mythical fairy tale about something that used to happen in the magical good old days. And very few at my age are "industry veterans" because we are systematically being prevented from gaining that experience.
parvus wrote: Anyway, the company I worked for was ranked among the top 100 workplaces (and for statutory holidays, we had a "floater" we could take any time, making for 10 days in all). I believe it would have taken 10 years to earn four weeks vacation. As I recollect, you got an extra day for every year of service. This is pretty standard HR procedure.
I believe this company would go with the BC legal minimum, in which you have no obligation to award any additional vacation allowance at all, until that fifth year when you get a full extra week. Then again ON has no obligation for employers to ever increase beyond two.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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queerasmoi wrote:I don't have a great deal of leverage. An MSc degree and one year of industry experience...
My comment was meant to be more general. Yes I realize that with 1 year experience you don't have much leverage. My comment was also in part a response to your concern that if you have to wait 5 years to get 3 weeks that you want confidence the company will be around in 5 years. IOW if you put in say 1 year at company A, 3 years at company B, etc. then after you've had 5 or more years in the industry you should be able to negotiate more than 2 weeks at company D or E, especially if that experience puts you in greater demand. But you're right that I don't have recent experience in the hiring market.

BTW, since you seem very knowledgeable in the area of cellphones and maybe related areas, as well as chemistry, I wonder if it's worth looking for a job that requires expertise in both areas, e.g. an analytic chemistry manufacturer that's developing a smartphone/tablet app. While the chances of finding such an opening are relatively low, if you do find one your chances of getting the job would be relatively high. Similarly you might be able to broaden your search to something like product management or sales/marketing support.

Anyway, I'm just brainstorming.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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Queerasmoi, my 2 cents:

Don't negotiate for any extras at this point. After you've worked at a company for at least a year and you have some kind of performance review, that is a good opportunity to ask for some modification of your benefits. You will have a better lay of the land and may be able to show your boss where you can add value with a more flexible schedule. For example, working an extra hour a day during the busy season in exchange for a lump sum lieu time vacation to be taken at a mutually agreed upon time may well be possible once you've been there for a while and proven your worth.

After 20 years, I asked if I could work one day a week from home. We had moved 3 years prior and the lengthy commute was killing me. My boss and I were able to work out a deal, clarifying exactly what my duties and accountability would be for that day. For me, it was better than having an extra 2 weeks vacation. It saved me 3 hours of commuting time and frustration and enabled me to do laundry or mow the lawn during daylight hours and pop a home made supper on the stove, instead of defrosting a tv dinner at 8 PM.

A company that won't budge on vacation entitlement may be willing to do a "tit for tat" where it results in a clear benefit for the company. In my case, I had to take on additional paperwork for our organization -- really boring and tedious stuff -- but the boss was happy to shuffle it off his desk and it was a fair tradeoff for me.

Right now, though, getting more job experience in your field is more important than your employment benefits. Either that or retrain in a different field. I think you are right to continue to pursue jobs in BC for now; that is where you have your job experience. If nothing pans out there, then back to ON.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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Bylo Selhi wrote: BTW, since you seem very knowledgeable in the area of cellphones and maybe related areas, as well as chemistry, I wonder if it's worth looking for a job that requires expertise in both areas, e.g. an analytic chemistry manufacturer that's developing a smartphone/tablet app. While the chances of finding such an opening are relatively low, if you do find one your chances of getting the job would be relatively high. Similarly you might be able to broaden your search to something like product management or sales/marketing support.
Yes, well, technically inclined as I am, I was never able to acquire anything beyond the most rudimentary of programming / development / design skills. Which pretty much blocks me out of that industry.

Sales is out of the question. I could not sell water to a fish.

----

Heard back from the job I really wanted. Their process has been delayed due to vacation absences. So I'm not out of the running I suppose.

That means that if an offer is coming from the "other company" I will have to accept it and then see if a competing offer ever arrives.

The "other company" happens to have a facility in ON as well, just not in a city where I particularly want to be. However an alternative to save'n'quit could be to request a transfer after some time in the job, end up within a 3-4 hours' drive of my parents, and deal with small city life until the next big thing.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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queerasmoi wrote:Yes, well, technically inclined as I am, I was never able to acquire anything beyond the most rudimentary of programming / development / design skills. Which pretty much blocks me out of that industry.

Sales is out of the question. I could not sell water to a fish.
Don't sell yourself short. Product management doesn't require programming, etc. skills. And sales/marketing support doesn't involve selling. But both do require the application of specialized technical knowledge, e.g. in analytic chemistry, to support those who do design, development, sell, etc. but aren't themselves necessarily analytic chemists.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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Bylo Selhi wrote:
queerasmoi wrote:Yes, well, technically inclined as I am, I was never able to acquire anything beyond the most rudimentary of programming / development / design skills. Which pretty much blocks me out of that industry.

Sales is out of the question. I could not sell water to a fish.
Don't sell yourself short. Product management doesn't require programming, etc. skills. And sales/marketing support doesn't involve selling. But both do require the application of specialized technical knowledge, e.g. in analytic chemistry, to support those who do design, development, sell, etc. but aren't themselves necessarily analytic chemists.
You would be surprised. A good deal of the salespeople in our field of chemistry have a very strong analytical chemistry background. It is a definite requirement.

Perhaps more jobs will open up in January. Companies might be putting it off until after the holidays since most will shut down. Just keep looking. If you don't mind the travel, a support tech might be good. All those air miles would let you visit your family for free!
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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Well, the job I really wanted said no. Still waiting on the other.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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Heard back from the other. The laboratory acquisition did not go through. Hence they no longer have a job at which to hire me.

EI ends late February. Perhaps move to Ontario in the spring if nothing professional or personal is attaching me to BC.

Depressing though that I'm 8 months unemployed now. If I don't get work by April that'll be a year. Both my coworkers from that lab are also still unemployed too.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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I hope you can find a break from worry over the holiday season.
Must be difficult to work so hard just trying to get a job.
If possible, shake off any negative and keep positive as you go into the new year.
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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Dejavu wrote:As I approach retirement I have become aware or some shortcomings in my GIC ladder(60%of AA). I see
three needs to be filled by said ladder:
1/ annual cash availabilty for additional living expenses should they be required.(use non reg gics)
2/ annual cash for my pending RRIF compulsory withdrawals. ( use my rrrsp gics)
3/ the conventional ladder to hold dw,s RRSP,s and TFSA,s and my TFSA.( to hedge against rate risk)
These assumptions are based on my belief that I would draw down nonreg interest bearing gics first.
My conclusion is to try to run the three ladders to make sure the requisite type of funds are available as may be needed. This may be a little anal but I think I am on the right track.
Have any of you had similar ladder design concerns.
My habit had been to just fill in the ladder gaps with what ever type of funds became available with no thought going into withdrawal time.
Dejavu.
Sorry if the title is deceptive, but this thread is largely about my adventures in under- and unemployment. Hence for me "withdrawal time" is about interrupting my personal investing and drawing down on my reserves to stay afloat, hoping to be able to catch up later whenever gainful employment arrives again.

You might want to explore your retirement-related question in another thread. I don't think our situations are going to have a lot in common. :)
Thread title has been amended to avert confusion - ModeratorK
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Re: Withdrawal time...

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My apologies, perhaps the Mod could move my post, or I can repost to "complicated logistics of gic ladder"Dejavu. Done -- ModeratorM. See the GIC logistics thread
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

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So I'm leaning more and more towards a decision to move back to the Toronto area as a base for job hunting. I'd be close to my family again. My EI ends in a few weeks. I figure I'll wait for the rest of Canada to thaw, visit a few places on the West Coast that I won't see much of for a while, and then aim for a mid-late April move. Sell / give away anything that won't fit in boxes. Ship boxes via UPS / Canada Post / Greyhound, find a driving buddy to get my car over together. Temporarily use the guest rooms of my parents and my generous friend downtown while figuring out in exactly what neighbourhood I might be able to find work. Attend an industry conference in Guelph in May that will include both my East and West Coast contacts.
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Re: Withdrawal time... (before retirement)

Post by northbeach »

Best of luck.
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