mint.com/canada
- Bylo Selhi
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Re: mint.com/canada
My concerns would be:
• Where does mint's data reside? If it's only in Canada, then it would take a Canadian court order for authorities to access it but if it's located in the US then then something like the PATRIOT Act would also govern. I'm not sure how concerned I should be about this because Big Brother probably already knows more about me than I really care to know.
• The more widely dispersed my data, especially across borders, the easier it would be for hackers to get at it. Mint claims to be secure. But then so did the über-geeks at the Gawker network.
• As I understand mint, you give them the account numbers and passwords to all your financial institutions and they login on your behalf to extract data in order to show you a consolidated view of your finances. Doesn't that violate the terms and conditions of the banks' online service agreements that prohibit sharing of account, login, password, PIN, etc. information with third parties like mint? Doesn't that then invalidate any indemnification by the banks should someone fraudulently abscond with my assets?
That said, the banks must at least tacitly approve given this sort of endorsement:
BTW I wonder why CIBC is a hold-out. Is it a technical or legal issue?
• Where does mint's data reside? If it's only in Canada, then it would take a Canadian court order for authorities to access it but if it's located in the US then then something like the PATRIOT Act would also govern. I'm not sure how concerned I should be about this because Big Brother probably already knows more about me than I really care to know.
• The more widely dispersed my data, especially across borders, the easier it would be for hackers to get at it. Mint claims to be secure. But then so did the über-geeks at the Gawker network.
• As I understand mint, you give them the account numbers and passwords to all your financial institutions and they login on your behalf to extract data in order to show you a consolidated view of your finances. Doesn't that violate the terms and conditions of the banks' online service agreements that prohibit sharing of account, login, password, PIN, etc. information with third parties like mint? Doesn't that then invalidate any indemnification by the banks should someone fraudulently abscond with my assets?
That said, the banks must at least tacitly approve given this sort of endorsement:
BTW I wonder why CIBC is a hold-out. Is it a technical or legal issue?
Last edited by Bylo Selhi on 14 Dec 2010 10:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: mint.com/canada
Free today.... I would suggest very strongly that the "free" will only last until you have all your eggs in their basket. In addition, I would be shocked if anybody here would not be concerned about the potential security issue.
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Re: mint.com/canada
Beats me how so many web users have no quams about security. I would never even consider this site. And that still leaves the question "WHY use it". What exactly is it going to do for you that you cannot do better yourself?
Re: mint.com/canada
My life is nowhere near complicated enough to warrant something like that. I really wonder if marketing departments are trying to invent a need here. Even for all you quicken users, I can't figure out how it's easier or better than a spreadsheet. They've also been around since visicalc and I've never had a problem moving data from one to another.
newguy
newguy
Re: mint.com/canada
The security issue doesn't bother me.
I use web banking at home on my iPod. Oh gosh, couldn't someone sniff my password over my WiFi connection? How do I know the CIBC app doesn't have a nefarious "backdoor" hidden in it by a disgruntled programmer? How do I know IE isn't secretly sending my banking data back to Microsoft? How do I know some teenager at Rogers isn't sniffing my packets as they fly across their network? How can we be sure the bank won't get hacked?
We swipe our debit cards everywhere, I wave my RFID Speedpass (TM) at the Esso gas station, we blithely hand our Visa to the high schooler working at the restaurant ...
but we draw the line at Mint? Seems kinda arbitrary to me.
I use web banking at home on my iPod. Oh gosh, couldn't someone sniff my password over my WiFi connection? How do I know the CIBC app doesn't have a nefarious "backdoor" hidden in it by a disgruntled programmer? How do I know IE isn't secretly sending my banking data back to Microsoft? How do I know some teenager at Rogers isn't sniffing my packets as they fly across their network? How can we be sure the bank won't get hacked?
We swipe our debit cards everywhere, I wave my RFID Speedpass (TM) at the Esso gas station, we blithely hand our Visa to the high schooler working at the restaurant ...
but we draw the line at Mint? Seems kinda arbitrary to me.
Re: mint.com/canada
Not necessarily. RBC partners with CashEdge to give you access to your non-RBC accounts. RBC's own terms and conditions support the use of aggregators.Bylo Selhi wrote:• As I understand mint, you give them the account numbers and passwords to all your financial institutions and they login on your behalf to extract data in order to show you a consolidated view of your finances. Doesn't that violate the terms and conditions of the banks' online service agreements that prohibit sharing of account, login, password, PIN, etc. information with third parties like mint?
Of course, it does...Doesn't that then invalidate any indemnification by the banks should someone fraudulently abscond with my assets?
Also, I'm sure it creates all kinds of opportunities for finger-pointing if your accounts become compromised in any way.
I used to take advantage of RBC's partner aggregator, I would link my credit card accounts from other institutions, which I thought was harmless since although it could present a privacy issue (what do i buy where?), it appeared to present no security risk (you can't debit my credit card from the online transaction report). However, I quickly put a stop to it, when I realized that self-serve online functions are available to customer that simply have credit cards. Basically, I may only have a credit card at BMO, but anyone that gets a hold of my BMO password can open a variety of accounts, apply for a credit line, and then transfer money to a 3rd party in my name.RBC's lawyers wrote:(b) You may choose to share your Password with an Aggregator. If you share your Password with an Aggregator, you understand that (i) we will not help the Aggregator in any way and will not be responsible for the information retrieved by the Aggregator; (ii) we will not be responsible to you for any losses that may result from you sharing your Password or using the Third Party Account Aggregation Service; (iii) you are responsible to review the security and privacy standards of the Aggregator and to determine what your liability will be in connection with the Third Party Account Aggregation Service; (iv) you will change your Password immediately when you end the Third Party Account Aggregation Service; and (v) we have the right to prevent Aggregators from accessing your Accounts.
Re: mint.com/canada
What the banks really need is a read only access password.
newguy
newguy
- Bylo Selhi
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Re: mint.com/canada
ISTM this is probably a good part of Mint's business model. Like Google with free e-mail, search, etc. or AirMiles with free points, etc. these people end up accumulating a lot of data about the shopping habits of their "members" that their real "customers" (businesses, not you or I) are willing to pay lots of money to mine.marty123 wrote:it could present a privacy issue (what do i buy where?)
Anyone who plans to sign up with Mint should read their privacy policy verrrry carefully in light of: Why Mint works
To which our protectors at the OSC will (well, hopefully) respond,"Good luck with that."But with Mint, Patzer has found a very clever way to help users while still offering the service for free. Mint's business model is to examine a user's finances and accounts, match it with offers from advertisers, and then pitch custom offers to users. For example, if there are credit cards or savings accounts with better rates than you are currently paying, Mint will show you what you would save with the new product. That clever model, Patzer says, "is two orders of magnitude more effective than banners." It's "personal, contextual, and quantifiable." It also means Mint is making money on its free service.
This model will be expanding into new financial vehicles as Mint gets new features. For example, as the product gets the capabilities to track investing and retirement accounts (in limited rollout so far), Mint will begin to evaluate the fees users are paying for their holdings. If it notices that you're holding a mutual fund with high expenses but that there are more efficient funds available with the same profile, Mint will make the recommendation, and, of course, pocket the referral fee. Patzer said he's looking at "fixing mortgages," too.
See also:
How does Mint.com make money?
Mint.com’s Data-Driven Revenue Model
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Re: mint.com/canada
I've been using it, and I like it. I've mainly been using it as a transaction register for all of my accounts. I'm too lazy to make my own register, and this site does it pretty well.
I'm not worried about security. I'm not exactly sure what information I should be worried about. That people might learn what I'm buying? meh. I guess some people might find that attitude strange. But I don't really care who knows what I buy.
I'm not worried about security. I'm not exactly sure what information I should be worried about. That people might learn what I'm buying? meh. I guess some people might find that attitude strange. But I don't really care who knows what I buy.
Re: mint.com/canada
I'm confused, Bylo. Are you implying that this is somehow a bad thing?Bylo Selhi wrote:if there are credit cards or savings accounts with better rates than you are currently paying, Mint will show you what you would save with the new product. [...] Mint will begin to evaluate the fees users are paying for their holdings. If it notices that you're holding a mutual fund with high expenses but that there are more efficient funds available with the same profile, Mint will make the recommendation, and, of course, pocket the referral fee.
I can't speak for anyone else, but that sounds like a win-win to me. Where do I sign to have my "Russ1an V1agRa" spam replaced with "We've found you a better mortgage rate" spam?
If you're going to receive spam anyway, who in their right mind wouldn't want spam that is actually relevant to your specific interests, rather than a generic "shotgun" approach of garbage?
And if this targetted advertising is what funds free finance aggregation, why would you be opposed to this? This seriously sounds like "win-win" to me.
I don't get the opposition implied in your tone. What's so bad about targetted, relevant advertising?
Every Sunday, I get a pile of fliers on my front porch for junk I have absolutely no interest in. Decking, driveway sealing, esthetics, massages, etc. etc. I don't care a whit about any of those things. But if Henry's is having a 40% off Boxing Day sale, now that I'd be interested in.
Re: mint.com/canada
I agree. Just go to google* and type in one letter in the search box. It will guess what you're interested in. They know me better than I know myself. There are also targeted adds on some pages that know what I've looked at in the past few days and show me those items and where to buy them.
newguy
*chrome, maybe others as well.
newguy
*chrome, maybe others as well.
- Bylo Selhi
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Re: mint.com/canada
I'm suggesting that the ads you see aren't provided by Mint in your best interests. They're paid for by Mint's customers who are their advertisers and not you. I also suggested, somewhat sarcastically, that the sort of "investment advice" described in the quote ("Mint will begin to evaluate the fees users are paying for their holdings. If it notices that you're holding a mutual fund with high expenses but that there are more efficient funds available with the same profile, Mint will make the recommendation, and, of course, pocket the referral fee.") might run afoul of OSC regulations.kombat wrote:I'm confused, Bylo. Are you implying that this is somehow a bad thing?
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- IdOp
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Re: mint.com/canada
Call me skeptical, but somehow I get the feeling it will be more like "If Mint notices an advertiser's fund with a similar profile to one you hold, but which performed significantly better last year than yours did, Mint will tell you about it.""Mint will begin to evaluate the fees users are paying for their holdings. If it notices that you're holding a mutual fund with high expenses but that there are more efficient funds available with the same profile, Mint will make the recommendation, and, of course, pocket the referral fee."
- Bylo Selhi
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Re: mint.com/canada
Ottawa issues warning about online budgeting sites
The Financial Consumer Agency of Canada issued a statement Thursday warning users of financial aggregation services that they risk leaving themselves liable for fraudulent transactions if they share their online banking information with such sites. Financial aggregation services, such as Mint Canada, allow users to keep track of all of their financial transactions at a single website by granting the site access to their banking, credit card and brokerage accounts...
By providing online banking passwords to such sites, users risk violating their online banking agreements, thus forfeiting the protection their financial institutions provide against unauthorized transactions, warned Maura Drew-Lytle, director of communications for the Canadian Bankers Association. “You could be making yourself liable if there are any fraudulent transactions on your account because you have basically broken your account agreement,” Ms. Drew-Lytle said.
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