Filling out a W-8BEN -- how?
Re: Filling out a W-8BEN -- how?
Hi there,
I know this is an old thread but I just got dinged by Vanguard when I changed my address to reflect my move back to Canada.
I have an IRA and a Roth IRA account with them. Do you have to do anything special with the W8-BEN for the IRA/Roth IRA accounts?
My understanding is that the tax treaty between the US and Canada recognizes these type of retirement accounts across the border and, therefore, I will not be taxed while the money grows inside of these accounts. I am still young so I won't be withdrawing money from these accounts anytime soon.
So do I need to do anything special in the W8-BEN form for these accounts? The info I got from Vanguard seems to imply that I need to fill Part II/line #10 but I think they meant I need that if I were withdrawing money from these accounts.
Thanks
I know this is an old thread but I just got dinged by Vanguard when I changed my address to reflect my move back to Canada.
I have an IRA and a Roth IRA account with them. Do you have to do anything special with the W8-BEN for the IRA/Roth IRA accounts?
My understanding is that the tax treaty between the US and Canada recognizes these type of retirement accounts across the border and, therefore, I will not be taxed while the money grows inside of these accounts. I am still young so I won't be withdrawing money from these accounts anytime soon.
So do I need to do anything special in the W8-BEN form for these accounts? The info I got from Vanguard seems to imply that I need to fill Part II/line #10 but I think they meant I need that if I were withdrawing money from these accounts.
Thanks
Re: Filling out a W-8BEN -- how?
I need to file W-8BEN for a joint taxable account held at TD Direct Investing.
Should I fill out one W-8BEN form with two names? Or two forms with one name per form?
Thanks.
Should I fill out one W-8BEN form with two names? Or two forms with one name per form?
Thanks.
Re: Filling out a W-8BEN -- how?
I think I found the answer.
W-8BEN instructions
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw8ben.pdf
Page 2:
W-8BEN instructions
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw8ben.pdf
Page 2:
The way I read it, each person should file a separate form.Note. If you own the income or account jointly with one or more other persons, the income or account will be treated by the withholding agent as owned by a foreign person if Forms W-8BEN are provided by all of the owners.
Re: Filling out a W-8BEN -- how?
It seems that something has changed in the past couple of years and it's now required that I fill out Line 10 of my W-8BEN.
Fair warning: I am inexperienced with financial matters and trying to figure this out so that I can collect full payment from a website that I sell ready-made product on.
So far I've filled out everything except Line 10. I figured out the article and paragraph and the rate % but I don't know what to list for "type of income" or "Explain the additional conditions [...] to be eligible for the rate of withholding".
Can anyone help with this?
Thanks
Fair warning: I am inexperienced with financial matters and trying to figure this out so that I can collect full payment from a website that I sell ready-made product on.
So far I've filled out everything except Line 10. I figured out the article and paragraph and the rate % but I don't know what to list for "type of income" or "Explain the additional conditions [...] to be eligible for the rate of withholding".
Can anyone help with this?
Thanks
Re: Filling out a W-8BEN -- how?
Kind of puzzled as well! I'm a Canadian citizen with no financial presence at all in the US, no capital holdings, revenue, tax history, or stocks. I will attend a conference in the US and will receive a one-time payment of a relatively small amount (less than 2000 U.S.) which will constitute the only revenue I make in the US this fiscal year. I don't know what to enter in line 6 of part 1, I don't think it's the Canadian social insurance number (SIN). I will write 'Canada' on line 9 of part 2, but have no idea what to put in the following line (10). Am I right to assume that these line infos can be skipped if the one-time amount in question is below a certain threshold?
Any help would be appreciated!
Any help would be appreciated!
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Re:
I stayed a Canadian tax resident while working in the US so if you have confirmation it is that complicated, then yes it likely is.Doug wrote: ↑02 Oct 2008 09:07 I have an account with Vanguard from the time that I worked in the USA.
Vanguard states "If completing the form for an IRA or qualified plan account, you must have a U.S. taxpayer identification number to be eligible for treaty benefits in Part ll of the form...
I write this to point out that filling out form W-8BEN may not be as straightforward as one thinks.
The key question that occurs to me is whether this is an out of the box template based on the assumption one is a US person where by moving back to Canada and severing ties, you are no longer bound by these requirements.
For example, do you really still have a US address attached to this account?
Just my two questions and cents ....
Cheers
Re: Filling out a W-8BEN -- how?
Yes, I do realize I'm quoting from 2011AltaRed wrote: ↑14 Dec 2011 15:51 An old thread but relevant. Thousands, if not tens of thousands, of Canadians, including myself, have a US SSN as a result of ex-pat work assignments in the USA. I have run into difficulties with 2 discount brokerages over the past few years when I have inserted my SSN in the ITIN/SSN box on the W-8BEN form. Under NO circumstances should one do that. The tax departments of at least a few of the discount brokerages will assume (and insist) that you are a US Person* because of the existance of a SSN and insist you fill out a W-9 instead. That, of course, is wrong if you are NOT a US Person.
That can stall you dead in your tracks until and unless you can provide a letter from a US tax consultant or from the IRS documenting that you are not a US Person. The alternative is to remain 'undocumented' and subject to standard 30% withholding tax which may, or may not, be fully recoverable via FTC on a Canadian T1 General. Canadian institutions seem to have gotten a lot more paranoid recently about the long arm of the IRS because this has never been a prior issue for me for the 20 years previous.
The best thing to do is to leave that box blank.
* US Citizen, green card holder, meeting the substantial presence test, etc.
I need to send a W-8BEN to a private US corporation that is liquidating and I have common stock of. The liquidation will happen over three years. My current understanding is I will get a dividend in the first two years and then I assume (need to figure this out) that the common stock will cease to exist and the business closed in year 3. It is only then I get a capital gain/loss based on the ACB of my common stock. As such the first few payments will be dividends and believe I'll get dinged withholding tax (ideally 15%) as a Canadian resident (also citizen).
I've filled out W-8BENs for Canadian (and US) brokers in the past but it has been awhile, as I'm not on the three year plan and still get the 15% FWT. I know AR's decade old post is about Canadian brokers but does the W-8BEN require an SSN, if one has one? Instructions here https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw8ben.pdf are not clear. In the Line 5 section it says: "If you have a social security number (SSN), enter
it here." but then it goes on to say "To claim certain treaty benefits, you must complete line 5 by submitting an SSN or ITIN, or line 6 by providing a foreign tax identification number (foreign TIN).". It would appear I should enter at least one number, if not both. I lean toward the FTIN (ie. entering my SIN in Line 6a).
Does anyone know which tax numbers, SSN and/or SIN, or if any, need to be entered in the situation I describe?
Found a somewhat similar question here viewtopic.php?t=120080 but no definitive answer.
Thanks
Re: Filling out a W-8BEN -- how?
The form does not require both numbers, so if you reside in Canada and want to 'identify' with the Canada-US treaty and avail yourself of the 15% withholding tax provision, it is my view to use an ITIN, i.e. SIN number. That is a rank, amateur opinion on my part. It may be worth your while to run this scenario past a cross-border tax accountant to be sure, particularly if there is a lot of money at stake and you don't want to leave more than a 15% withholding tax behind with Uncle Sam.
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Re: Filling out a W-8BEN -- how?
I recently filled a W-8BEN for TIAA (where I have a 401(a) and a 403(b)).
I am a Canadian living in Canada.
A lifetime ago, I worked for a few years in the USA with a now-renounced Green Card.
Here's how I filled the W-8BEN:
Line 1: I wrote down my name.
Line 2: I wrote "Canada".
Line 3: I wrote down my complete street address in Canada.
Line 4: I left this field blank.
Line 5: I wrote down my USA Social Security Number.
Line 6: I wrote "Not legally required" as per instruction.
Line 7: I wrote "none".
Line 8: I wrote down my date of birth.
Line 9: I wrote "Canada".
Line 10:
- First field: I wrote "XVIII, 2(b)".
- Second field: I wrote "15%".
- Third field: I wrote "Annuity income".
- Fourth field: I left this field blank.
For help in filling the form I used these sources (presented here in order of importance):
- The official 7-page IRS "Instructions for Form W-8BEN";
- A phone conversation with someone at TIAA;
- The Serbinski forum;
- The FW forum;
- Google searches.
I am a Canadian living in Canada.
A lifetime ago, I worked for a few years in the USA with a now-renounced Green Card.
Here's how I filled the W-8BEN:
Line 1: I wrote down my name.
Line 2: I wrote "Canada".
Line 3: I wrote down my complete street address in Canada.
Line 4: I left this field blank.
Line 5: I wrote down my USA Social Security Number.
Line 6: I wrote "Not legally required" as per instruction.
Line 7: I wrote "none".
Line 8: I wrote down my date of birth.
Line 9: I wrote "Canada".
Line 10:
- First field: I wrote "XVIII, 2(b)".
- Second field: I wrote "15%".
- Third field: I wrote "Annuity income".
- Fourth field: I left this field blank.
For help in filling the form I used these sources (presented here in order of importance):
- The official 7-page IRS "Instructions for Form W-8BEN";
- A phone conversation with someone at TIAA;
- The Serbinski forum;
- The FW forum;
- Google searches.
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- Posts: 2571
- Joined: 21 Feb 2018 18:03
Re: Filling out a W-8BEN -- how?
I have a SSN from working in the US as a Canadian tax resident.AltaRed wrote: ↑27 Oct 2021 11:52 The form does not require both numbers, so if you reside in Canada and want to 'identify' with the Canada-US treaty and avail yourself of the 15% withholding tax provision, it is my view to use an ITIN, i.e. SIN number. That is a rank, amateur opinion on my part ...
I'm not sure what the official view is but for the W8-BEN, have only given the ITIN (i.e. SIN number).
Edit:
Though I don't have any retirement accounts in the US ... just a former employer stock plan.
Cheers
Re: Filling out a W-8BEN -- how?
A Canadian having and using a SSN in Canada can result in a lot of unnecessary grief as my post in 2011 said.
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Re: Filling out a W-8BEN -- how?
Apologies in advance, just in case,
With no intent to hijack the thread, has anyone filled in the form W-8BEN-E?
My deceased F-I-L (subject of another thread) held IBM shares and filled in the W-8BEN yearly, and it was straightforward.
With his passing I believe we now need to switch to using the W-8BEN-E form, most recently updated in October 2021.
There is guidance available via Google, but none that I can see pertinent to Canadian residents, for the new version.
Anyone here 'been there, done that?
Many thanks, as always,
Tony
With no intent to hijack the thread, has anyone filled in the form W-8BEN-E?
My deceased F-I-L (subject of another thread) held IBM shares and filled in the W-8BEN yearly, and it was straightforward.
With his passing I believe we now need to switch to using the W-8BEN-E form, most recently updated in October 2021.
There is guidance available via Google, but none that I can see pertinent to Canadian residents, for the new version.
Anyone here 'been there, done that?
Many thanks, as always,
Tony
Re: Filling out a W-8BEN -- how?
There should not have been a need to fill out the form yearly. Traditionally, some financial institutions have requested a renewal every 3 years and others have been known to not ask for renewals at all. The E form version is something I've never heard of before. Perhaps ask the brokerage?
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