Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

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big easy
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Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by big easy »

We are planning a trip to Germany and Austria this summer for 3 weeks. We are flying in and out of Frankfurt and plan to go as far as Vienna and Innsbruck. We have young children 9 & 12 so are looking for family friendly activities.

So far we are thinking about a 3 day hut-to-hut hike somewhere around Innsbruck, a stop over at Lake Constance and the Castle that disney was modelled after. Would like to see Berlin but fear it is too far out of the way for a relatively short trip such as this (same for Prauge).

We plan to rent a car and do some camping or stay at small guest houses. We are thinking we would stay on the outskirts of Munich or other large cities to avoid traffic and parking problems.

Does anyone has specific suggestions about any of the above or must-sees I have not mentioned.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by Bylo Selhi »

big easy wrote:We have young children 9 & 12 so are looking for family friendly activities.

So far we are thinking about a 3 day hut-to-hut hike somewhere around Innsbruck
I'm not sure if kids 9 and 12 are up to it, especially if they've never hiked before but I'd suggest a few days in the Karwendel. Start in Scharnitz on the Austrian side of the border, then head east towards Karwendelhaus for the night. It's about a 5-6 hr hike. Next hut is Falkenhütte, about 2-3 hr away. That's a nice place to lunch on your way to Lamsenjochütte, another 4-5 hr away. In between is the village of Eng, where you could also stay overnight, especially if the weather is bad in the mountains. From Lamsenjochütte it's a beautiful 4-5 hr downhill walk to the village of Pertisau on Achensee. Take the ferry to Maurach, then the steam train to Jenbach, then the regular train to Innsbruck and another train back to Scharnitz. (If you've got a few hours in Maurach, take the cable car up to Erfurterhütte, etc.) Or come down from Lamsenjochütte to Schwaz and take the train back to Innsbruck. We've done this hike 3 or 4 times in the past 3 decades. It's not a walk in the park, but it's hardly strenuous.

For more info Google on the place names. A similar, more grueling variant is described in Hiking Hut To Hut In Austria or in Hurdle's book, Walking Austria's Alps: Hut to Hut. If you're staying in Innsbruck for a day or two, ask at the tourist office in the old part of town or at the Austrian Alpine club office a block or two from the train station.

If you plan to stay at huts, avoid the weekends because the huts will be full, especially if the weather is nice. Membership in AAC will let you make reservations and you'll pay about half price for accommodations but it's not worth it for only 2-3 nights. Make sure to order Kaiserschmarrn for dessert on at least one night in a hut. A single order will be enough for 4 people who've just finished dinner.
Castle that disney was modelled after
Neuschwanstein Castle. Never been there.
We are thinking we would stay on the outskirts of Munich or other large cities to avoid traffic and parking problems.
Good strategy even in smaller cities like Innsbruck. Stay in a village that's a 15-30 min train/bus ride from the city and you'll spend less for accommodation and food as well as avoid traffic and parking.

In Munich there's the usual assortment of museums and art galleries. If you're interested in technology, the Deutsche Museum is a must, as is the BMW Museum. (If you're into cars, check out the small museum in Scharnitz too.) If you'll be in Munich during Oktoberfest you'll find hotel prices are outrageous, even a fair distance out. In that case you might want to stay an hour or more out, drive closer, park in the 'burbs and take the train/S-bahn into the downtown core.

If I had to choose between Frankfurt and Munich I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat.

If it were me, I'd fly into Innsbruck via Vienna or directly into Munich. If I had to choose between Frankfurt and Munich I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat and skip Frankfurt altogether. Spend a week or so in Vienna (no car) then fly to Innsbruck, pick up the car, etc. If you plan to spend a week in Innsbruck (including the hut-to-hut) you might only need the car for a week or so. Or spend a week in Munich (no car) then drive to Innsbruck.

If the Karwendel hut-to-hut trip sounds too challenging there are two cable cars from Innsbruck that will take you up to the mountains. From there you can get to a hut in a few hours. For example, Pfeishütte is ~3 hr from the Hafelekarspitze cable car. You can visit for lunch and come back the same way. You can also descend from the hut to Scharnitz and take the train back to Innsbruck. Again the tourist office and AAC can provide more details. Innsbruck has several museums and a zoo, among other attractions.

If you do stay in Innsbruck, two hotels to consider:
(a) Hotel Ibis, part of the Ibis chain, is right across from the train station. It's modern, quiet central and reasonably priced. Unlike most hotels in Austria, breakfast isn't included, but WiFi is. Their breakfast is a rip-off. If you want a continental breakfast go across the street to the train station at the Ruetz bakery. (They have branches all around the area, including at the airport.)
(b) Hotel Mozart is a more traditional small hotel a couple of blocks from the train station. It's a bit dated but clean and comfortable. Full breakfast included but you have to pay for WiFi. We're paying €87 for a double room in August and September. I prefer (a) but Ms Bylo prefers (b).

If you have more questions, fire away ;)
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by westinvest »

Agree with Bylo that Munich is by far the better airport to fly in to, but if you do fly to Frankfurt and have a few days to get to the Munich area, the Romantic Road, which runs from Wurzburg down through Rothenburg, Dinkelsbuhl, and Augsburg is a nice trip. If you go to Lake Constance, it seems the prices in Austria (Dornbirn) are a bit better than the German and Swiss side.

If you rent a car at Frankfurt for a few weeks, it's worth your while to go into the city stations to pick up your car rather than the Airport, which has high facility fees. I just saw Hertz offering 20% off for Germany - http://www.hertz.ca/rentacar/f-8759500/ ... cial-offer until June 15
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by Bylo Selhi »

westinvest wrote:Agree with Bylo that Munich is by far the better airport to fly in to
The issue isn't so much the airport as the city. If BE has only 3 weeks and wants to (a) see Vienna and maybe Munich, (b) do a few days of hut-to-hut, (c) visit Innsbruck, (d) see Neuschwanstein, (e) see Lake Constanz, etc. then Frankfurt is somewhat out of the way. Better to use Innsbruck or Munich. (I now notice that BE is in Vancouver. My suggestion to fly via Vienna may not be practical if there are no direct flights from VCR to VIE. And Vienna is quite a distance from Innsbruck, let alone Lake Constanz.)

It's important to plan an itinerary that's doable in 3 weeks without going on a marathon. You can drive on the autobahns and see relatively little or you can drive on the much slower country roads and see much more, e.g. the drive from Frankfurt to Munich. I'd rather spend 3 weeks in a smaller area and experience more rather than do a whirlwind tour that barely touches on the highlights.
If you go to Lake Constance, it seems the prices in Austria (Dornbirn) are a bit better than the German and Swiss side.
That's generally true. Switzerland is insanely expensive because of the strong CHF. Many Swiss vacation in Austria because it's so much cheaper. The differential between Austria and Germany isn't quite as pronounced.

BTW if BE wants to spend time in Lake Constanz area, there's lots of hut-to-hut hiking there too (i.e. instead of around Innsbruck) as well as on the way between the two areas, e.g. Lech.
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by kcowan »

If you need to overnight in Frankfurt, try Hotwire. We got a Holiday Inn with a free airport shuttle for half price.
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by Jaunty »

There is also the SlowTrav forum (link below) where a search turns up lots of information about travel in Germany.
http://www.slowtrav.com/
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by Shine »

If you are driving to Vienna from Munich, Salzburg is worth a visit.

Mind it has been about two decades since we were there but we enjoyed the place - to qualify however, the weather was excellent, there was a festival underway.
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by pmj »

It's not always true that car rental at airports is more expensive. Yes there may be facility fees - but there's also more competition. You also have to get to - and return from - an off-airport facility - although some offer pick-ups. Airport facilities usually have longer opening hours - and they usually are open on Sundays. It's generally more difficult to find one-way rentals off-airport.
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by big easy »

Thank you all for your suggestions and advice. Expedia shows cars for 20Euro per day which seems pretty reasonably to me. We may skip Innsbruck or Lake Constance since are trip is rather time limited. We have already booked our flight into Frankfurt - AirTransat seemed the only reasonable fare btwn Vancouver and Germany/Austria at the time we booked.

The kids are really keen to do a hut to hut hike, so that is definitely on the itinerary. We have the book by Jonathan Hurdle but all the hikes are 5 or 6 days. Scharnitz to Karwendelhaus in 1 day seems a tad ambitious. Can you recommend a 3 day version in either Innsbruck or Lake Constance?

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I will do some more research and get back when our plans have firmed up a bit.
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by Bylo Selhi »

big easy wrote:Scharnitz to Karwendelhaus in 1 day seems a tad ambitious. Can you recommend a 3 day version in either Innsbruck or Lake Constance?
Scharnitz to Karwendelhaus is about 5 hours. Most of it along a gravel forestry road that's on a fairly gentle grade. The last hour or so is steeper but nothing like what you'll encounter on later stretches like from Eng to Lamsenjoch. Yes, it's a bit of a long day but it's quite doable if you leave by 10am. Remember that when you get there you don't have to pitch a tent or prepare dinner. Just get sleeping accommodation, either matratzenlager or a room, then relax with a beer waiting for dinner. There's also a private restaurant/hut about half way there. It's a decent refuge in bad weather but I wouldn't stay otherwise (we know because we have.) If the hut warden's dad at Karwendelhaus, who was the previous warden, is still around tell him you're from Canada and that this is your first outing to the huts. He'll treat you very well.

If that sounds too ambitious, there are lots of other 2 to 3 night trips near Innsbruck as well as Lake Constanz (in the Bregenzerwald, etc.) One possibility is to go to Franz-Senn hütte in the Stubai. It's been a while since we've hiked in that area. I believe Hurdle starts a much longer Stubai loop from there. I suggest Franz-Senn hütte and Karwendelhaus as starting points because they're larger huts with better facilities. The AAC office in Innsbruck can give you specific advice, sell you maps, etc. based on how ambititious you want to get. One wild card for me, having no kids, is how to factor them into the equation without either boring them or wearing them out.

Another option would be to stay in a village for a few days and do day hikes up to different huts, have lunch there, then come down. This is a popular way for many people to enjoy the mountains. There are lots of books that describe these sorts of day-hikes. Most are in German but Cicerone in the UK publishes a few in English. There are also smartphone apps, put out by local tourist offices, that include hiking suggestions of varying lengths and difficulty. If you stay in a small hotel or pension (B&B) you can discuss checking out a day early, leaving your car and luggage there, then going up to a hut, staying overnight, then returning the next morning.
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by westinvest »

big easy wrote:Thank you all for your suggestions and advice. Expedia shows cars for 20Euro per day which seems pretty reasonably to me.
I would guess that's for Thrifty / Dollar at Frankfurt (same franchise at the airport)? I did a rental through them 2 years ago, a few cautions - T2 counter only (not a problem for Air Transat), read their T&C's very carefully (for example, they will absolutely refuse to use your credit card CDW coverage unless you provide them with a personal letter addressed to you from the credit card company stating that their coverage is valid in Germany). Look over your car very carefully before you drive away (may need a flashlight, their cars are in a dark area of the garage - except of course the one area where you return the car and they inspect it.
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by Springbok »

On my first trip to Germany, we landed in Frankfurt. It was a business trip, but later on another trip, we drove from UK and re-visited Frankfurt. The old town called Sachsenhausen is worth a visit - Something like Old Montreal.

On leaving Frankfurt, we first drove to Heidelberg (university town well worth a visit) and then on to Munich. We camped in a well run campground on outskirts of Munich. We had a lot of trouble finding it again after spending an evening at the Hofbrau Haus :ugeek:

We went on to Salzburg and returned via Austria and Switzerland doing a bit of spring skiiing. We stayed in a "zimmer frei" near but not in Innsbruck. I think we camped near Basle on way back.

At that time we were young and foolish - no forward planning, but that was 1/2 the fun!
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by eezee »

Just got back from Munich/Austria.
A few points :

IF you know where/when you need a hotel check out HOTWIRE.COM and book from here.
I got a room at Munich airport for 73 C$ , Hotel Moevenpick 4*. You only find out which hotel after you book, but it is touted as 4*, and it was indeed. Don't plan to eat at there, the prices are astronomical.

Noon is the main meal, and most Gasthauses offer good value menus.
Many shopping centers in cities have a food chain store as the anchor. Many of the newer ones have a restaurant with really good prices and good food. That's a come on for the locals to shop there and they do.

Gas was 1.69 EU (2.20 C) per liter in Germany on the Autobahn, about .10 less in towns.
Austria's prices are about .20c less. Less still in towns/cities, about 1.40 EU.
BTW, gas grades are higher than here, 91,95,97 octane. Rental cars are either diesel or use 95 O. 91 and 95 is the same price.

If you're anywhere near Salzburg, plan to visit the salt mine in HALLEIN, it is a bit south of S'burg. It will likely be the one thing your kids will remember best. And you will enjoy it too.
Lots of info when you GOOGLE HALLEIN.
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by eezee »

... continued

Austrian Autobahns require a sticker, available at gas stations BEFORE you enter the country. Austrian cops are merciless and the fine is steep. 10 day sticker is about 8 EU.
Austrian law requires a safety vest in case you have a break down on the road, again steep fine for non compliance. My rental car from Munich had one in the glove compartment. I also saw them on sale at an Autobahn service centre for 6.99.
As far as I know only the driver needs one...... so far.

Agree with comment up thread about checking the car before leaving the parking garage. My car had a stone chipped windshield which I did not notice until I was in daylight on the road. Upon return I ended up with a damage report which I then had to 'argue' at the office. They accepted my explanation, but an aggravation nevertheless.

While on the subject of service centres, in Germany between Stuttgart and Munich there was one that had turnstile access to the loo , it required .70 EU to activate the turnstile. OTOH there are frequent "P" (parking) areas which have restrooms at no charge. So you might want to plan your washroom stops :rofl:
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by westinvest »

Speaking of the Austrian highway sticker, be careful if you go into Switzerland at all. They have an annual highway sticker that costs 40 SFr, but you need it even if you only travel a few km on one of their major highways for one day. It is theoretically possible to take back roads to avoid the highway, but in some areas that is awkward, and you have to know which roads need the sticker and which don't.

In Germany the gas stations on the Autobahn frequently have a washroom attendant who will expect a fee to use the facilities. The good news is they're sparkling clean...
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by eezee »

big easy wrote:Thank you all for your suggestions and advice. Expedia shows cars for 20Euro per day which seems pretty reasonably to me. ........
At that rate my guess is that the description says something like ' 4 people, 1 suitcase' .... believe the suitcase part.
I had an OPEL CORSA, the luggage compartment held my suitcase and a packsack and that's all I had room for.
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by Bylo Selhi »

And if you're going to rent a car, in addition to the above caveats...
1. Make sure you can drive a manual transmission (or be prepared to pay big bucks, er euros, for a "luxury" car with auto.)
2. Make sure you know the rules of the road in the countries you'll be driving, especially if you venture onto a German autobahn (hint: stick to the right lane.)
3. Make sure your budget provides for hefty parking fees, especially in urban areas.
4. Make sure you have a credit card that works in European ATMs and gas station card readers, especially if you need to fill your tank at night.

Renting a car may makes sense with a family of four. In my experience it doesn't if only one or two people are travelling. The European train and bus system is sooooo much better than ours.
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by pmj »

Bylo Selhi wrote:And if you're going to rent a car, in addition to the above caveats...
4. Make sure you have a credit card that works in European ATMs and gas station card readers, especially if you need to fill your tank at night.
Or on Sundays! I was in Belgium trying to use up some Euros to buy gas before leaving - and I could not find an attended gas station. However the gas at the non-attended stations was several euro-cents cheaper.
Bylo Selhi wrote:Renting a car may makes sense with a family of four. In my experience it doesn't if only one or two people are travelling. The European train and bus system is sooooo much better than ours.
For a holiday based on a few central locations I'd agree. A couple of years ago we travelled by train from London to Paris, then to Zagreb, then to Split - and it was both affordable and enjoyable. But for a "moving-around" trip - and when looking for the "road-less-travelled" - we find a car invaluable. IME the car rental market in Europe is so competitive, and diesel-fuelled cars so economical - that the cost & convenience of renting a car _provided you don't have to pay to park too often_ is not a significant component of the total cost.

Recently I've obtained the best rates using KLM/Air France "Flying Blue" membership discounts. Ivory-level membership is available to anyone. No commitments, and maybe a few useless points at the end - indeed on one rental I was able to select a different loyalty card to receive the points.
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by eezee »

More thoughts on driving (I guess I'm a slow thinker :lol: ) :

Can't make a right turn on a red light ( you can in ON)

Unless you're in a hurry to get there don't use the autobahn (mentioned up-thread)
I have nothing against them, I did 140-150 occasionally (in Germany), Austria's limit 130
but at those speeds you don't sightsee.

In Austria large stretches of the autobahn have sound-barriers, so you only see some of the more distant vistas.

Consider driving the 'Grossglockner Hochalpenstrasse'. It is a North-South toll road over the highest mountain in Aut.
Nice weather is a requirement. CAA summer 2012 magazine has an article on it. If you want PM me and I'll scan and email.
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by northbeach »

Just came back from Central Europe.
I rented a car in Budapest. Pretty difficult driving, but I did get used to it.
I brought my GPS, loaded with map of Europe. Could not have done without it. Not only did it get me to where I wanted to go, but helped me navigate which lane I should be in.
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by Bylo Selhi »

eezee wrote:Consider driving the 'Grossglockner Hochalpenstrasse'. It is a North-South toll road
There are several similar drives in AT, e.g.

Öztal
Glacier Road To The Rettenbach & Tiefenbach Glaciers from where you can take a cable car up to the glaciers and walk through a tunnel that connects them, etc.
Timmelsjoch High Alpine Road that goes to Italy.

Zillertal
Zillertaler Höhenstraße that's a long and very winding road, best experienced on a motorcycle.
Alpenstraße Schlegeis that takes you up to a huge dam from which it's ~2hr fairly easy hike over the Pfitscherjoch into Italy (where you can have lunch at Pfitscherjochhaus.)

All of these are spectacular, each in their own way, and well worth the diversion.
over the highest mountain in Aut.
Not quite. Unlike the Pikes Peak road in Colorado, these roads don't actually go to the summit. They only go up and over the pass between high mountains or to a glacier or dam ;)
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by big easy »

OP here. I've been so busy lately, there has been no time to plan our vacation. I really am reading these posts though and enjoying all the suggestions. Thank you so much.

I just called my credit card company to get my "Letter of coverage" for CDW coverage on the vehicle. Thanks to the posters upthread :thumbsup: . Most helpful.

Will definitely be doing the hike up to the Karwendelhaus and beyond - thanks Bylo!

Beyond that, we haven't planned too much except to take one of the roads "Castle Road" or "Romantic Road" through southern Germany en-route to Munich, Innsbruck and Vienna. Have seen Saltzburg before and been to the Hallien salt mine before we had kids (fun slide) - so who knows we may go again. A trip to the pastry shops in Germany and Austria is also a must, may even pick up a box of Mozartkuglen, which is a favourite in our family. Will be visiting relatives in Vienna and then back to Frankfurt.

Keep the suggestions coming - will have to check out Hotwire for sure.

Thanks,
BE
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by big easy »

Well I am a little tardy in reporting on my trip but better late than never right?

We few into Frankfurt and travelled east to Bacharach in the Rhine for our 1st night. The place struck me as kind of dead - lots of empty restaurants, no crowds even in August. Perhpas a result of the recession. From there we travelled south along the Romantic Road - Rothenberg was fantastic, then onto Munich, Fussen, into Austria to Innsbruck, Salzberg and Vienna before heading back through Nuremberg and back to Frankfurt. Overall a great trip - a little more driving than I had expected and 3 weeks wasn't really enough time to cover so much ground but it was great anyway.

Two things of interest happened:
1) Our car rental wouldn't accept our insurance letter from TD Insurance so I had to pay the CDW. They said the letter had to be from the credit card company (TD Visa) and not a 3rd partY (TD Insurance). No amount of arguing would change there minds and when you've just gotten off a ten hour flight quite frankly you are at their mercy. So it kind of started things off on a bummer but we quickly recovered along with our jet lag.

2) Our hut-to-hut experience turned into a bit of a fiasco. When we arrived in Innsbruck we decided to visit the local alpine club office. There we were given dire warnings of our planned itinerary starting in Scharnitz and heading towards Karwendalhaus as suggested by Bylo. The normal route was two days and the shortcut suggested by Bylo too steep and dangerous for children we were told. Instead we were directed to another route that would be much more kid friendly, starting with a gondola ride from the north or Innsbruck into the mountains and first visiting Scholstensteinhaus. What was advertised as a five hour easy hike turned into a nine hour marathon with three passes involving ladders and wire ropes and steep ascents and descents on scree covered slopes for which we were not prepared with only lightweight hiking shoes. At one point the kids were crying coming down a cliff on a metal ladder five hours into the hike and no end in sight. We made it to our destination at 7pm in the rain just in time for supper but we so disheartened we hiked out the next day to Scharnitz (another loooong day). When we arrived in Scharnitz we discovered that a taxi could be hired from Scharnitz to Karwendalhaus and it wasn't a difficult route at all. I should have listened to Bylo but its kind of hard to explain to the wife that some guy named Bylo on the internet told me it was perfectly safe for kids. Oh well.

Actually now that its over 2) makes a good story and we all laugh about it. Especially dad trailing behind exhausted sitting on the trail in the pouring rain - ha ha. My youngest turned out to be the strongest hiker out of the four of us, so good on him.

Anyway, thanks for all the advice, even if it didn't work out exactly as planned.

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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by Bylo Selhi »

big easy wrote:What was advertised as a five hour easy hike turned into a nine hour marathon with three passes involving ladders and wire ropes and steep ascents and descents on scree covered slopes for which we were not prepared with only lightweight hiking shoes. At one point the kids were crying coming down a cliff on a metal ladder five hours into the hike and no end in sight. We made it to our destination at 7pm in the rain just in time for supper but we so disheartened we hiked out the next day to Scharnitz (another loooong day). When we arrived in Scharnitz we discovered that a taxi could be hired from Scharnitz to Karwendalhaus and it wasn't a difficult route at all. I should have listened to Bylo but its kind of hard to explain to the wife that some guy named Bylo on the internet told me it was perfectly safe for kids. Oh well.
What a shame that they steered you to such a difficult route for your introduction to the mountains. Usually when we ask a local for a recommendation they assume that, because we're from overseas and middle-aged, we won't want to deal with stuff like snakesropes and ladders and instead suggest something that's accessible by cable car at both ends with a level path in between. I suspect the person you spoke with at AAC was quite young and just assumed that everyone is strong and experienced enough to do that route.

Glad that things worked out in the end. It's the challenges like this that you and your family will remember. And as time goes by you'll remember them as adventures rather than ordeals.

P.S. Did the trail to Solsteinhaus have signs like these? It should have in order to warn (German-speaking) hikers of what lays in store.
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big easy
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Re: Travel Advice - Trip to Germany & Austria

Post by big easy »

Hi Bylo,

No I don't remember any such signs. My wife is fluent in German so she would have been able to read them. As you say we have a good laugh about it now and I'm sure it will be retold for years to come.

BTW, have you ever walked the pilgrimage Camino de Santiago de Compostela? It looks interesting.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." Mike Tyson
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